Fan Made sequel to Chrono Trigger 98% complete!

[HumblePie]

The thing is, he was making a derivative work on copywrite material. It would have been fine if he was making it for his sole personal use only, in which case SE would never have found out about it. He can actually still make it FOR HIMSELF, but that is it. He can't release it without permission first and as noted SE isn't giving that out.

Why people are up in arms over this is beyond me. Even though SE may be sitting on THEIR idea and creation, the fact remains, it is still THEIRS to do with as they please. Just because all the fans out there are hoping someday SE will one day make a sequel (ie derivative work) from the original CT, that doesn't change the fact that no one else can do this unless SE says so.

Now, could there be ways "ahem" around this to make it fall into fair use? Sure. If the author decided he was going to teach a class on "how to make nintendo games" and used he knowledge of rewriting CT as course study, then he could do so and distribute copies for student use only. Of course, once studies are over, the copies would need to be nuked or they would be in violation, but there are still legal ways to get around the Cease and Desist Notice.

 

[jesterb84]

Originally posted by: HumblePie
Now, could there be ways "ahem" around this to make it fall into fair use? Sure. If the author decided he was going to teach a class on "how to make nintendo games" and used he knowledge of rewriting CT as course study, then he could do so and distribute copies for student use only. Of course, once studies are over, the copies would need to be nuked or they would be in violation, but there are still legal ways to get around the Cease and Desist Notice.

I can just visualize the webpage: Instead of a CT Remake, it will be termed "SNES Game Programming Primer 101" and instead of a Download link, there will be a link to "Download Course Material and Working Examples" link. The course will last a sufficiently-long period of time, like 20 years or so after which you will need to destroy all course material upon "graduating".

 

[Sureshot324]

If anything this game will renew interest in the Chrono Trigger series, which will then allow SE to milk more money out of it.

In any case, they should just modify the game enough so that it doesn't infringe on any copywrites. Then perhaps leak a patch that restores it to it's original state.

 

[coloumb]

"Unfortunately their lack of action back then made us more confident that they didn't mind our work "

From someone who worked on a Star Wars mod for Quake [and was eventually lucas'd (shutdown)] - never assume you can continue working on a mod just because they don't respond. This is where they screwed up - they should have asked for an official confirmation before continuing their "mod".

 

[venkman]

99% complete, huh? They should just rework the plot, characters, and story a bit so it becomes a "spiritual successor".

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Squenix is making money off of reissues and remakes so it makes business sense for them to stop fans from diluting their brands.

Not really. Its not as if they are pumping out CT material anytime soon. If they aren't gonna do anything but sit on it, why even bother stopping fans from creating their version? It's not like the fan version will draw attention away from their nonexistant new sequel.

I bet they just lost a few fans in the process.

They just put out a DS reissue in the past year. On the diluting brands note, I think the OP demonstrated it rather well. He called the game a sequel to Chrono Trigger. People were already identifying it as being a successor to the gam which is something, for better or for worse, that only Square can do.

The guys that do this stuff are just as clueless as that jerk that made Bob's Game. Who puts five years into something that they never properly followed up on with Square? Hell, they should have known better given how much of the original content they were using (ripped off of a game cartridge). I thought that the 3D remake may have had a chance since it was using so much user-generated content, art, and music. But seeing as they are still interested in releasing the original game, as shown from the DS reissue, then I can understand why they nixed it.

There is still some great fan stuff out there. There is a complete "symphonic" remake of the soundtrack to the game. It's made so that it is like a movie soundtrack. You can get the whole thing in FLAC from their website: http://chrono.ocremix.org/ . This has been around for a long time but it is completely user-generated. That's the difference between the works that get shutdown.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Squenix is making money off of reissues and remakes so it makes business sense for them to stop fans from diluting their brands.

Not really. Its not as if they are pumping out CT material anytime soon. If they aren't gonna do anything but sit on it, why even bother stopping fans from creating their version? It's not like the fan version will draw attention away from their nonexistant new sequel.

I bet they just lost a few fans in the process.

I'll say the same thing to this one as I did the last:

You come home to another dude boning your wife. You going to just grab a chair and sit there, maybe give the guy a few pointers? A few months later when she's about to give birth to her *SECOND* bastard child, you going to raise it with a smile on your face, or are you going to snuff it out of existence like you did the first?

They created chrono trigger, they own the IP, they get to say who does what with it, and if I were them, I wouldnt want any fanboy releasing unauthorized sequels, even if it is for free.

 

[TidusZ]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Squenix is making money off of reissues and remakes so it makes business sense for them to stop fans from diluting their brands.

Not really. Its not as if they are pumping out CT material anytime soon. If they aren't gonna do anything but sit on it, why even bother stopping fans from creating their version? It's not like the fan version will draw attention away from their nonexistant new sequel.

I bet they just lost a few fans in the process.

I'll say the same thing to this one as I did the last:

You come home to another dude boning your wife. You going to just grab a chair and sit there, maybe give the guy a few pointers? A few months later when she's about to give birth to her *SECOND* bastard child, you going to raise it with a smile on your face, or are you going to snuff it out of existence like you did the first?

They created chrono trigger, they own the IP, they get to say who does what with it, and if I were them, I wouldnt want any fanboy releasing unauthorized sequels, even if it is for free.

Ya but in this case the guy did sit in the chair and watch until he was approaching orgasm and then he pulled him off slapped him on the wrist and sent him home. And it's like the guy was Einstein, and we'll never get to see the genius baby that would have resulted. Common courtesy woulda been saying no in the first place or saying yes for a price. Decent proposal imo.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Squenix is making money off of reissues and remakes so it makes business sense for them to stop fans from diluting their brands.

Not really. Its not as if they are pumping out CT material anytime soon. If they aren't gonna do anything but sit on it, why even bother stopping fans from creating their version? It's not like the fan version will draw attention away from their nonexistant new sequel.

I bet they just lost a few fans in the process.

I'll say the same thing to this one as I did the last:

You come home to another dude boning your wife. You going to just grab a chair and sit there, maybe give the guy a few pointers? A few months later when she's about to give birth to her *SECOND* bastard child, you going to raise it with a smile on your face, or are you going to snuff it out of existence like you did the first?

They created chrono trigger, they own the IP, they get to say who does what with it, and if I were them, I wouldnt want any fanboy releasing unauthorized sequels, even if it is for free.

Yes, they do get to say who does what with it. It is totally in their right. However, that doesn't make them not assholes.

I don't even see how this is even a good business decision. They recently put out a DS rerelease, so its not like they are going to do anything with CT anytime soon, unless they put it on VC or something, because Square is smart enough not to touch the damn series in any new way. Hell, the new shit that they added to the remake sucked ass. They know if they made a new game from the Chrono Trigger ip it would get tons of flak.

Still, this fanmade game isn't made for anyone who hasn't played Chrono Trigger. Its not like someone is going to say "well I was going to try Chrono Trigger, but since this fanmade sequel came out outlining the events between CT and CC, i'll just play it instead". Everyone who would have payed this fanmade game would have probably already bought/played Chrono Trigger (and most likely Chrono Cross too).

As far as the diluting the ip idea, well then they might as well stop all fanmade stories, art, and even discussion if they want to prevent "diluting" the glorious ip that is CT...

All this game would have done is make CT more popular. Smart game developers embrace fan made homages. It just makes the fans more ready to buy the next juicy game they release.

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Squenix is making money off of reissues and remakes so it makes business sense for them to stop fans from diluting their brands.

Not really. Its not as if they are pumping out CT material anytime soon. If they aren't gonna do anything but sit on it, why even bother stopping fans from creating their version? It's not like the fan version will draw attention away from their nonexistant new sequel.

I bet they just lost a few fans in the process.

I'll say the same thing to this one as I did the last:

You come home to another dude boning your wife. You going to just grab a chair and sit there, maybe give the guy a few pointers? A few months later when she's about to give birth to her *SECOND* bastard child, you going to raise it with a smile on your face, or are you going to snuff it out of existence like you did the first?

They created chrono trigger, they own the IP, they get to say who does what with it, and if I were them, I wouldnt want any fanboy releasing unauthorized sequels, even if it is for free.

Yes, they do get to say who does what with it. It is totally in their right. However, that doesn't make them not assholes.

I don't even see how this is even a good business decision. They recently put out a DS rerelease, so its not like they are going to do anything with CT anytime soon, unless they put it on VC or something, because Square is smart enough not to touch the damn series in any new way. Hell, the new shit that they added to the remake sucked ass. They know if they made a new game from the Chrono Trigger ip it would get tons of flak.

Still, this fanmade game isn't made for anyone who hasn't played Chrono Trigger. Its not like someone is going to say "well I was going to try Chrono Trigger, but since this fanmade sequel came out outlining the events between CT and CC, i'll just play it instead". Everyone who would have payed this fanmade game would have probably already bought/played Chrono Trigger (and most likely Chrono Cross too).

As far as the diluting the ip idea, well then they might as well stop all fanmade stories, art, and even discussion if they want to prevent "diluting" the glorious ip that is CT...

All this game would have done is make CT more popular. Smart game developers embrace fan made homages. It just makes the fans more ready to buy the next juicy game they release.

Fanmade stories, art and music do not reuse the exact content of the game though. Look at the trailers for this, they used the exact same artwork, monsters, interface, sounds, etc. It goes beyond somebody doing a drawing of a character or remixing a song because those are new content based upon Chrono Trigger, not the original source material itself.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Squenix is making money off of reissues and remakes so it makes business sense for them to stop fans from diluting their brands.

Not really. Its not as if they are pumping out CT material anytime soon. If they aren't gonna do anything but sit on it, why even bother stopping fans from creating their version? It's not like the fan version will draw attention away from their nonexistant new sequel.

I bet they just lost a few fans in the process.

I'll say the same thing to this one as I did the last:

You come home to another dude boning your wife. You going to just grab a chair and sit there, maybe give the guy a few pointers? A few months later when she's about to give birth to her *SECOND* bastard child, you going to raise it with a smile on your face, or are you going to snuff it out of existence like you did the first?

They created chrono trigger, they own the IP, they get to say who does what with it, and if I were them, I wouldnt want any fanboy releasing unauthorized sequels, even if it is for free.

Yes, they do get to say who does what with it. It is totally in their right. However, that doesn't make them not assholes.

I don't even see how this is even a good business decision. They recently put out a DS rerelease, so its not like they are going to do anything with CT anytime soon, unless they put it on VC or something, because Square is smart enough not to touch the damn series in any new way. Hell, the new shit that they added to the remake sucked ass. They know if they made a new game from the Chrono Trigger ip it would get tons of flak.

Still, this fanmade game isn't made for anyone who hasn't played Chrono Trigger. Its not like someone is going to say "well I was going to try Chrono Trigger, but since this fanmade sequel came out outlining the events between CT and CC, i'll just play it instead". Everyone who would have payed this fanmade game would have probably already bought/played Chrono Trigger (and most likely Chrono Cross too).

As far as the diluting the ip idea, well then they might as well stop all fanmade stories, art, and even discussion if they want to prevent "diluting" the glorious ip that is CT...

All this game would have done is make CT more popular. Smart game developers embrace fan made homages. It just makes the fans more ready to buy the next juicy game they release.

They have no control over it, and have nothing to gain by it. Especially since its reusing artwork, it might be easily confused for something square itself made.

If its poor, it could dilute their brand, and make people less likely to play their games.

If it's good, it'll make their own games look worse in comparison, and people would be less likely to buy them but instead wait for the next fanboy freebie. It might even satisfy people's CT urges for a while, and also thereby make them less likely to buy the next one.

Stopping this is an excellent business decision. They have virtually nothing to gain by letting it happen. I know you want to play it, but you can twist the logic only so far.

It seems like a dick move for them to wait until its almost released, but I doubt they were waiting. They probably had no idea it existed until a buzz really started going about its impending release. I sure had no idea about it.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

It's possible that Square Enix doesn't bother sending C&D orders until they think a derivative work might actually have a chance of completion and distribution. This one probably came up on the radar because of that nearing possibility, as BD2003 mentioned. May seem dickish from the fans' point of view, but that's just how the cookie crumbles. I'm totally with DaveSimmons -- it makes sense from a business standpoint to shut this project down.


Also:

Ya but in this case the guy did sit in the chair and watch until he was approaching orgasm and then he pulled him off slapped him on the wrist and sent him home. And it's like the guy was Einstein, and we'll never get to see the genius baby that would have resulted. Common courtesy woulda been saying no in the first place or saying yes for a price.

This is just getting a little too weird. Einstein genius babies? Maybe if Einstein was having an affair with the wife of someone much smarter and more successful who held the copyright on that theoretical baby.

 

[Sureshot324]

What if they redesigned the game to require the user to provide their own SNES Chrono Trigger rom? Every time you launch the game it would pull all the artwork from the rom. That way the game itself that they are distributing wouldn't contain any copyrighted material. It would be up to the user to obtain the ROM, however they want to do it.

 

[TidusZ]

Mother 3. The sequel to Earthbound, the best rpg on the SNES, was released in 2006 in Japan and never translated to english. http://mother3.fobby.net/ <--- these guys translated it and offered the japanese -> english conversion tool for the rom, which was downloaded over 100 000 times in the first week of its release. Nintendo had no plans to localize the game to english. Apparently, Nintendo employees expressed content with their actions and never stopped them. That's how its done.

 

[way2fast91]

I feel I should add my opinion now,

If SE hasn't atleast brought the lead 'fanboy' in to have a discussion and look at the work in progress to see whether or not it is worthwhile, then they are dumbasses and making a bad business decision. If there is a possiblity of making money with this 'project' then they would really be missing the boat not to try to work something out with this person(people?) Maybe like a 95/5 royalty split with the possibility of giving the kid a job within the company. Basically he hands over the rights to the work he has put in (his content, story, etc.) and they make him part of their team working on the game with a small portion of the royalties and a contract for a job for X amount time/money. The developer/publisher releases the game when their finished with it and banks whatever money they can get.

Yes with this scenario, you are all heartbroken because fanboy's title was never going to be free to you either way.

Also, fanboy is a dumbass for not getting the proper permissions in place ahead of time. He may be just a dedicated fan of the original work, but if that's the case then finished and playing the game all by himself should be all he needs to be satisified with this whole thing anyhow.

 

[randalee]

Originally posted by: BD2003
they own the IP, they get to say who does what with it, and if I were them, I wouldnt want any fanboy releasing unauthorized sequels, even if it is for free.

The idea behind IP is that the first guy to bang two rocks together and make fire, gets to kick the ass of anyone else who tries to do same.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Originally posted by: way2fast91
I feel I should add my opinion now,

If SE hasn't atleast brought the lead 'fanboy' in to have a discussion and look at the work in progress to see whether or not it is worthwhile, then they are dumbasses and making a bad business decision. If there is a possiblity of making money with this 'project' then they would really be missing the boat not to try to work something out with this person(people?) Maybe like a 95/5 royalty split with the possibility of giving the kid a job within the company. Basically he hands over the rights to the work he has put in (his content, story, etc.) and they make him part of their team working on the game with a small portion of the royalties and a contract for a job for X amount time/money. The developer/publisher releases the game when their finished with it and banks whatever money they can get.

Yes with this scenario, you are all heartbroken because fanboy's title was never going to be free to you either way.

Also, fanboy is a dumbass for not getting the proper permissions in place ahead of time. He may be just a dedicated fan of the original work, but if that's the case then finished and playing the game all by himself should be all he needs to be satisified with this whole thing anyhow.

Pipe dream. You think every team lead of fan-led remakes and sequels gets a sitdown with Square Enix? This wasn't even a particularly inventive project, despite how long it was in development -- it looked like all the sprites, backgrounds, and effects were pulled right from the original Chrono Trigger. Not to discount the work put into this, but if it magically got officially released, it would be laughed at and Square Enix would be criticized for milking another cult favorite. Its only chance of success was as a fan work, but it was doomed from the start.

 

[Barfo]

It has been leaked, in case anyone's interested.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Barfo
It has been leaked, in case anyone's interested.

Pm me plz, i was quite disappointed when they shut this down

 

[Gothgar]

wow, shitty

 

[1LordEmperor1]

Originally posted by: Barfo
It has been leaked, in case anyone's interested.

PM also please, been looking.

 

[Crono]

I'll have to give this a play through. It stinks that Square won't let not-for-profit fan remakes and sequels exist. I know they are protecting their property, but still.
I was majorly upset when the Chrono Trigger Resurrection Project was taken down. It was promising. I still have and use art from that project for desktop wallpaper.

 

[magomago]

I think another fear to worry about is the fact that its now a fanbase producing its OWN content. This sounds like nothing problematic to you guys - but if the fanbase can produce, on their own, new content/ideas/stories for the game then it almost starts to make Square Enix irrelevant. When they can easily and quickly distribute the product (ie: use the internet) then its a total bombshell. Square may have started out with the concept and idea (world of CT, etc) but if the fanbase takes it and pushes it to a level they are entirely satisfied with....then it leaves square out of the loop.
Think about what Square does - they do the exact same thing. Hire some guys, think up the story line, and make a game based off of it. The fanbase is basically offering an alternative story & game for ZERO cost. And when its ZERO cost, and its an EXCELLENT game (fanbases tend to care about this stuff) then it basically undercutting square in any potential profit they COULD have had.
Let us look @ other software where you can just take, edit as you want, and give it away: Linux. You know how companies make money? Support. However, Squareenix cannot offer 'support'. They have to sell the product.

Note: I don't agree with it...but I see this angle and how it can scare them. It isn't about this one title doing the damage, but its about containing a burst of it. And once a community grows on its own content (Youtube), then the original content provider gets screwed. The other idea is, "Well keep coming up with good and innovative content"...but that means lazy people should work

 

[MustangSVT]

meh.

Its a fan made game. although I would love another crono trigger, this will not be nearly as good or balanced.

oh well.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: GlacierFreeze

Originally posted by: Elcs

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Just change the the copyrighted names.

It's not just the names, they use the same characters, the same artwork, the same interface, the same monsters, the same sounds, etc. All they really did was just write a new storyline and maybe music.

They weren't exactly walking the line on this one.

If that is the case, could it not be classed as a Modification?

Yeah... that changes everything! :roll:

Doom, Quake, and Half-Life have literally thousands of mods. Of course it changes everything. What happened to Gooseman when he made Counter-Strike with valve's engine? Did they sue him? Of course not, they hired him.

I guess that pretty much settles it. I'll never buy another game from Square. Real game companies like id and Valve are down with people making mods, but Square is being a bunch of fags about it.

You come home to another dude boning your wife. You going to just grab a chair and sit there, maybe give the guy a few pointers? A few months later when she's about to give birth to her *SECOND* bastard child, you going to raise it with a smile on your face, or are you going to snuff it out of existence like you did the first?

This is why I love John Carmack and Gabe Newell - they let me sleep with their wives.