Family refuses to pay tip, gets locked inside restaurant

[Wreckem]

What do you consider reasonable and customary service?

This should be common sense. If you have to ask, leave your moms basement a few times a year.

No hes referring to the fact, you have only heard one heavily biased side of the story. I somehow doubt what is being told is 100% accurate and probably leaves out key details.

 

[highland145]

What do you consider reasonable and customary service?

This should be common sense. If you have to ask, leave your moms basement a few times a year.

I read my post again and have decided that you have failed at comprehending what I posted. Get ye back to the 2nd grade.

 

[Texashiker]

No hes referring to the fact. You have only heard one heavily biased side of the story. I somehow doubt what is being told is 100% accurate and probably leaves out key details.

Regardless if we know the whole story or not, there is an underlying principle of a business being able to tack on an extra fee, and the customer having no recourse but to pay the fee.

There was no written agreement here, there was no signed and documented contract between the two parties.

There is a sign on the wall, so there is not even a verbal agreement.

What happens if someone does not see the sign? What then? Are they still bound to pay the bill? What state law gives the restaurant the right to tack on extra fees?

 

[Wreckem]

Regardless if we know the whole story or not, there is an underlying principle of a business being able to tack on an extra fee, and the customer having no recourse but to pay the fee.

There was no written agreement here, there was no signed and documented contract between the two parties.

Doesn't have to be in writing. Doesn't have to have an oral agreement. Your actions alone are enough to constitute an agreement in these instances. By ordering you are agreeing to have it added when those mandatory gratuity disclaimers are on the menu.

They absolutely 100% do not need a state law to add on whatever fees so long as they give you notice of those fees in advance. This is why mandatory gratuity disclaimers are printed in bold larger print. I've never seen it as fine print, its almost always larger than the rest of the menu, almost always in bold, almost always in caps, typically red in color and on every single page of a menu.

 

[Texashiker]

Doesn't have to be in writing. Doesn't have to have an oral agreement. Your actions alone are enough to constitute an agreement in these instances. By ordering you are agreeing to have it added when those mandatory gratuity disclaimers are on the menu.

This goes back to reasonable and customary.

Is it reasonable to provide poor quality service, and then want to charge for it?

I do not know about you, but I usually do not pay for poor service. If I do pay, I pay a percentage. If someone washes 1/2 my truck, they do not get paid full price, they get paid 1/2.

 

[Wreckem]

This goes back to reasonable and customary.

Is it reasonable to provide poor quality service, and then want to charge for it?

Doesn't really matter. You agreed up front by ordering. And again in this instance we don't know the full story.

If service/food is poor. You NEVER WAIT until the end of the meal to complain. You complain at the beginning or its to late.

 

[JulesMaximus]

http://www.yelp.com/biz/la-fisherman-houston

Damage done

Yep, welcome to bankruptcy.

You can't buy goodwill but you can sure destroy it in seconds. The internet is cruel and negative press travels at the speed of light.

 

[Wreckem]

Yep, welcome to bankruptcy.

You can't buy goodwill but you can sure destroy it in seconds. The internet is cruel and negative press travels at the speed of light.

The avg person isn't going to 1. see those reviews 2. remember this event/news article after two days.

 

[JulesMaximus]

No hes referring to the fact, you have only heard one heavily biased side of the story. I somehow doubt what is being told is 100% accurate and probably leaves out key details.

Doesn't matter. You don't call the cops on a customer because they are disputing a charge on the bill. As the manager you make a judgement call and the calling the police was the wrong call.

 

[DrunkenSano]

There is no evidence that the service was poor quality. There is more evidence that the group of people were cheap fucks who wanted to not pay the fee. If there was a problem with the service, they would've spoken to the manager about it during the meal. Not after they looked at the bill and saw the $$$ where they want to be cheap fuckers. That group is a lot more common in restaurants, they are usually loud and obnoxious and at the end of the dinner, they weasel out with whatever they can to not pay. It's also typical that they eat the entire meal, then tell the waiter they want it replaced since it was not prepared well.

The evidence points to the restaurant being right and customers being wrong.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The avg person isn't going to 1. see those reviews 2. remember this event/news article after two days.

If you were a business owner would you make that gamble?

BTW-If you say yes, you're an idiot.

 

[Wreckem]

Doesn't matter. You don't call the cops on a customer because they are disputing a charge on the bill. As the manager you make a judgement call and the calling the police was the wrong call.

Like I have been saying it is clearly obvious we do not have the full story, just one completely biased side that has likely omitted key facts.

 

[Texashiker]

Doesn't really matter. You agreed up front by ordering. And again in this instance we don't know the full story.

Agreed how? By seeing sign? I can hang up any sign I want, but that does not mean the sign is enforceable.

Like I said in one of my first post, pay the bill, then sue the place in small claims court.

Make sure to post reviews on the internet how you had to sue the place because of the added fees and terrible service. Win or lose in small claims court does not matter. All people will see is a customer had to sue the place.

 

[piasabird]

The problem is it is not a gratuity if it is mandatory. Some people believe a tip should be earned. Just raise the prices on the food and forget tipping. I also dont believe that putting a disclaimer on the bottom of a menu is good enough. It should not stand up in a court of law because they can just say they did not read it. Tell people before you start serving them and give them a chance to leave or shut up.

 

[mnewsham]

Regardless if we know the whole story or not, there is an underlying principle of a business being able to tack on an extra fee, and the customer having no recourse but to pay the fee.

There was no written agreement here, there was no signed and documented contract between the two parties.

There is a sign on the wall, so there is not even a verbal agreement.

What happens if someone does not see the sign? What then? Are they still bound to pay the bill? What state law gives the restaurant the right to tack on extra fees?

so if i go to a restaurant with no prices on the menu and am shocked when it comes out to 250 bucks for just me should I not pay?

 

[Wreckem]

If you were a business owner would you make that gamble?

BTW-If you say yes, you're an idiot.

Plenty of terrible restaurants, with terrible reviews, even terrible health code violations stay in business and make tons of money. The average restaurant patron doesn't Google the restaurant, or look it up on yelp/urban spoon.

Hell there is a restaurant in my town that had all sorts of bad press, from bad reviews, major health code violations, a hepatitis outbreak, and federal labor complaints all in the span of about two weeks. Its booming more than ever right now.

Would I take the gamble know. But statistically speaking the gamble isn't that big because the avg patron won't remember it.

 

[QueBert]

There is no evidence that the service was poor quality. There is more evidence that the group of people were cheap fucks who wanted to not pay the fee. If there was a problem with the service, they would've spoken to the manager about it during the meal. Not after they looked at the bill and saw the $$$ where they want to be cheap fuckers. That group is a lot more common in restaurants, they are usually loud and obnoxious and at the end of the dinner, they weasel out with whatever they can to not pay. It's also typical that they eat the entire meal, then tell the waiter they want it replaced since it was not prepared well.

The evidence points to the restaurant being right and customers being wrong.

You mean like the people saying they got shitty service? I'd say that's evidence, weather or not you believe them's up to you. But they have stated they got poor service. And unless you know them personally and can state otherwise, what they say should be taken at face value.

 

[Wreckem]

The problem is it is not a gratuity if it is mandatory. Some people believe a tip should be earned. Just raise the prices on the food and forget tipping. I also dont believe that putting a disclaimer on the bottom of a menu is good enough. It should not stand up in a court of law because they can just say they did not read it. Tell people before you start serving them and give them a chance to leave or shut up.

Again, there is a reason why its still called gratuity even when mandatory. It involves how the labor laws are written.

 

[Wreckem]

You mean like the people saying they got shitty service? I'd say that's evidence, weather or not you believe them's up to you. But they have stated they got poor service. And unless you know them personally and can state otherwise, what they say should be taken at face value.

No it shouldn't be because they are self motivated. Period. Nothing a self motivated person says should be taken at face value. Ever. In this case more so than ever if not a complaint was made until the bill came.

 

[Capt Caveman]

There is no evidence that the service was poor quality. There is more evidence that the group of people were cheap fucks who wanted to not pay the fee. If there was a problem with the service, they would've spoken to the manager about it during the meal. Not after they looked at the bill and saw the $$$ where they want to be cheap fuckers. That group is a lot more common in restaurants, they are usually loud and obnoxious and at the end of the dinner, they weasel out with whatever they can to not pay. It's also typical that they eat the entire meal, then tell the waiter they want it replaced since it was not prepared well.

The evidence points to the restaurant being right and customers being wrong.

Incorrect. Not everyone will complain to the manager. Many will just give a small or no tip or even write a bad review afterwards.

They were willing to pay for their meals but don't want to pay the mandatory tip due to poor service, so how are they being cheap?

 

[herrjimbo]

Good for the restaurant!

Its not different than if they didnt pay for the food itself, it was a clearly stated policy that they know about going into the place.

You do realize they lost future customers. sometimes for the benefit of both the restaurant and the customers, the manager should have disciplined the waiter/waitress and made an exception.

Now, not only will the 6 people never go back, they will assuredly tell all their friends not to go there as well.

The manager is a dumbass.

 

[Wreckem]

Agreed how? By seeing sign? I can hang up any sign I want, but that does not mean the sign is enforceable.

Like I said in one of my first post, pay the bill, then sue the place in small claims court.

Make sure to post reviews on the internet how you had to sue the place because of the added fees and terrible service. Win or lose in small claims court does not matter. All people will see is a customer had to sue the place.

Dude, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

They'd have no claim in small claims. If you give notice to people they have to abide by that notice so long as that notice is legal. By ordering, they are agreeing to that notice. Adding a mandatory gratuity is well within the law. And again its still called a gratuity even though its really a surcharge because of labor laws. This is why restaurants just dont have service charges. If you pay people a tipped minimum wage, they have to earn tips. Surcharges/service charges are not tips. If there is no tipping, there is not a tipped employee/tipped minimum wage.

 

[Texashiker]

Dude, you clearly have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

They'd have no claim in small claims. If you give notice to people they have to abide by that notice so long as that notice is legal. By ordering, they are agreeing to that notice. Adding a mandatory gratuity is well within the law.

A couple of years ago my son-in-law used my truck to haul some scrap iron to the recyclers.

There were several signs across the yard saying "not responsible for damage to vehicles".

While the employees were unloading my truck, one of the machines put a 2 foot long dent in the bed of my truck, along with a hole a couple of inches long.

Even though there were signs up, they still paid to have my truck fixed.

Just because you hang a sign up, does not mean the sign is enforceable.

 

[Capt Caveman]

No it shouldn't be because they are self motivated. Period. Nothing a self motivated person says should be taken at face value. Ever. In this case more so than ever if not a complaint was made until the bill came.

????? So, in any news story, we should never believe the plaintiff? Again, not every one is going to complain during their meal.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Oh wait, the customers were black. Nevermind.