FairTax legislation?

[Ika]

Does anyone know if it is still currently pending in Congress? In other words, is it still being considered?

 

[Brainonska511]

I think it gets reintroduced every year, but it always fails to pass. This thread will probably break down.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
I think it gets reintroduced every year, but it always fails to pass. This thread will probably break down.

I just needed a confirmation. I couldn't find a definite source that said it was being considered, and I don't know jack about the workings of Congress. I have a debate tomorrow.

 

[FoBoT]

its chances are similar to an ice cube in the desert

 

[LeadMagnet]

We need to abolish all taxes and just have a National Sales tax of 20% on everything except - nessary food, medicin, education, and low income housinfg rent.

 

[Queasy]

Yes, it still exists and it is slowly gaining supporters.

http://www.fairtax.org/


Lobbyists hate the Fair Tax.

 

[Wreckem]

Its reintroduced every year but it never gets out of committee.

 

[Vette73]

Its brought up every now and then. But all it will be is a tax for the upper class passed down. That and all the figuries you hear are always way below what it would take to make it work.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Its brought up every now and then. But all it will be is a tax for the upper class passed down. That and all the figuries you hear are always way below what it would take to make it work.

Everytime I hear someone quote figures that will make the Fair Tax work, they usually have no clue on how the Fair Tax actually works. They tend to leave out things like the monthly prebate for each household up to the poverty level and add things like exemptions for food that aren't in the Fair Tax.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Its brought up every now and then. But all it will be is a tax for the upper class passed down. That and all the figuries you hear are always way below what it would take to make it work.

Everytime I hear someone quote figures that will make the Fair Tax work, they usually have no clue on how the Fair Tax actually works. They tend to leave out things like the monthly prebate for each household up to the poverty level and add things like exemptions for food that aren't in the Fair Tax.

Or how you'll be double taxed if you take money out of a bank account that was already taxed under the old system and spend it under the new system.

 

[alm99]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Its brought up every now and then. But all it will be is a tax for the upper class passed down. That and all the figuries you hear are always way below what it would take to make it work.

Everytime I hear someone quote figures that will make the Fair Tax work, they usually have no clue on how the Fair Tax actually works. They tend to leave out things like the monthly prebate for each household up to the poverty level and add things like exemptions for food that aren't in the Fair Tax.

Or how you'll be double taxed if you take money out of a bank account that was already taxed under the old system and spend it under the new system.

That doesn't make any sense. You are already double taxed when you decide to spend your money to purchase anything now. Albeit the percentage is lower that what it would be with the FairTax, but eventually you would come out ahead on the FairTax plan because YOU then choose when to be taxed instead of having no choice at all.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: alm99

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Its brought up every now and then. But all it will be is a tax for the upper class passed down. That and all the figuries you hear are always way below what it would take to make it work.

Everytime I hear someone quote figures that will make the Fair Tax work, they usually have no clue on how the Fair Tax actually works. They tend to leave out things like the monthly prebate for each household up to the poverty level and add things like exemptions for food that aren't in the Fair Tax.

Or how you'll be double taxed if you take money out of a bank account that was already taxed under the old system and spend it under the new system.

That doesn't make any sense. You are already double taxed when you decide to spend your money to purchase anything now. Albeit the percentage is lower that what it would be with the FairTax, but eventually you would come out ahead on the FairTax plan because YOU then choose when to be taxed instead of having no choice at all.

Yep...better to get rid of the over-burdening current tax system in the long-run. They should have a plan in place for people that already have money in savings though.

 

[Greenman]

The only way it will happen is if it's also a huge tax increase. And even then I wouldn't bet any money on it. Far to many people make buckets of money off of our tax structure.

 

[Vette73]

To show you how dumb it is and biased (i.e. its a tax break for the rich while rasing it on the lower class...)

Americans For Fair Taxation (AFFT) use Dale Jorgenson, a professor of economics at Harvard, to prove that 23% would work. Mind you they, AFFT, don;t bring up he went back on that and said the "rate would need to be much higher".

Then their other studies they fund outright, do not make them public, and the economists that conducted those studies never try and publish them or bring them up with their name.

Also these studies assume that there would be absolutely no tax evasion in a retail sales tax. Yea I am sure that will happen. :roll:

and on and on...

Here is a graph that shows how this "fairtax" would make those on the lower part pay more while giving a tax break to the rich.

 

[ElFenix]

if the IRS is abolished then who is going to collect and audit tax returns?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if the IRS is abolished then who is going to collect and audit tax returns?

The IRS would still exist...just not in its current form. All but a couple of states already collect sales taxes so they would use existing systems to collect for the fed (and would get a small cut).

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
To show you how dumb it is and biased (i.e. its a tax break for the rich while rasing it on the lower class...)

Americans For Fair Taxation (AFFT) use Dale Jorgenson, a professor of economics at Harvard, to prove that 23% would work. Mind you they, AFFT, don;t bring up he went back on that and said the "rate would need to be much higher".

Cherry-picking Wikipedia are we? Full quote:

Americans For Fair Taxation (AFFT) claim that Dale Jorgenson, a professor of economics at Harvard University and past President of the American Economics Association, helped develop the FairTax and estimated the revenue-neutral rate to be 22.9%.[6] However, Dr. Jorgenson, in his 2002 book, indicated that he believes the revenue-neutral rate would need to be much higher (it is unknown what assumptions, changes, or tax base he was considering when he made this statement).[18] Jim Poterba of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology estimated a rate of 23.1% using assumptions provided to him by AFFT. Laurence Kotlikoff of Boston University purportedly found a rate of around 24%. AFFT states that researchers at Stanford University, The Heritage Foundation, The Cato Institute, and Fiscal Associates have calculated revenue-neutral rates between 22.3% and 24%.[6] However, AFFT funded this research and has not made these studies public. The studies are also not published by the economists that conducted those studies. Economist William Gale of the Brookings Institution published a detailed analysis that estimated a ten-year revenue-neutral rate of around 31% (on a tax-inclusive basis) assuming full taxpayer compliance.[2][19] The Argus Group published an analysis that defended the 23% rate.[20][21] A detailed study published in 2006 by Beacon Hill Institute found the FairTax rate to be 23.82%.[22]

I don't believe any system of taxation is "perfect" but the current tax system is an abomination...even with the tax cuts. Corporate taxes are currently the second highest among industrialized nations. Is it any wonder why American companies are setting up shop overseas to stay competitive in the global market? The cost of doing business is getting to be too high.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Queasy
I don't believe any system of taxation is "perfect" but the current tax system is an abomination...even with the tax cuts. Corporate taxes are currently the second highest among industrialized nations. Is it any wonder why American companies are setting up shop overseas to stay competitive in the global market? The cost of doing business is getting to be too high.

Correct me if I'm wrong but businesses are only taxed on their profit, i.e. net income, thus cost of business is written off against the gross income.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yes, it still exists and it is slowly gaining supporters.

http://www.fairtax.org/


Lobbyists hate the Fair Tax.

Look, another Boortz drone.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yes, it still exists and it is slowly gaining supporters.

http://www.fairtax.org/


Lobbyists hate the Fair Tax.

Look, another Boortz drone.

The Fair Tax bill picked up three more sponsors in the month of September. If the Fair Tax is passed, it would essentially put the K Street lobbyists out of business of lobbying for special exemptions for their clients.

Is there anything here you would like to dispute or do you prefer to just call names?

 

[gotsmack]

FairTax NO

Flat Tax YES!

doing FairTax is just going to open up a huge black market.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Queasy
I don't believe any system of taxation is "perfect" but the current tax system is an abomination...even with the tax cuts. Corporate taxes are currently the second highest among industrialized nations. Is it any wonder why American companies are setting up shop overseas to stay competitive in the global market? The cost of doing business is getting to be too high.

Correct me if I'm wrong but businesses are only taxed on their profit, i.e. net income, thus cost of business is written off against the gross income.

Ahh but you forget to include that companies doing business internationally are taxed in the US on the money they make here in the USA and on the money they make overseas. Most other countries only tax companies on the money they make inside their country.

This is why when Daimler and Chrysler merged they set up shop in Germany. The tax and regulation costs were actually cheaper in Germany than in the USA.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: gotsmack
FairTax NO

Flat Tax YES!

doing FairTax is just going to open up a huge black market.

Why? They are both tools by republiacans and the rich to try and lower the tax on the upper class and raise it on the lower class.

Only the rich and those to dumb to understand support it.

 

[gotsmack]

a federal flat tax with the first $20-30K tax free would be most fair. That way you could just get rid of deductions except for companies.

The rich would have to pay more in taxes because they don't get any deductions, and there would still be an incetive for investments and such because any losses would reduce your taxable income.

you could also get rid of the death tax and such and just take any money inherited as new income.


yes, SOME rich people would pay less, but you know what, poor people would pay NO federal tax so they can't complain.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: gotsmack
a federal flat tax with the first $20-30K tax free would be most fair. That way you could just get rid of deductions except for companies.

The rich would have to pay more in taxes because they don't get any deductions, and there would still be an incetive for investments and such because any losses would reduce your taxable income.

you could also get rid of the death tax and such and just take any money inherited as new income.


yes, SOME rich people would pay less, but you know what, poor people would pay NO federal tax so they can't complain.

You have no idea how and who pays the most tax right now and what a person that makes 30K pays do you?

Flat/Fair tax is just a scam to give a break for the top % while putting the burdon on those that make less and are in the lowwest bracket.