Extending Tax Cuts, Why Can't the Politicians Compromise?

[Jhhnn]

The problem, Darwin333, is that the banksters' actions weren't illegal. Serial deregulation carried out over the last 30 years combined with non-oversight during the Bush era made the whole speculative frenzy possible. That deregulative effort was championed by repubs, who've also managed to thwart more comprehensive financial rules in the wake of near collapse brought on by their own policy.

If you can't accept that, you're living in La-la land.

 

[disappoint]

The greedy elite don't break the rules...they make the rules...in their favor.

 

[Fear No Evil]

We need to tax ourselves into prosperity damnit! Anyone who disagrees will be taxed some more!

 

[Jhhnn]

We need to tax ourselves into prosperity damnit! Anyone who disagrees will be taxed some more!

Says a person who's living under the lowest federal tax rates of the postwar era....

Denial is an obvious requisite for wearing a Rightie headset, for sure.

 

[Darwin333]

The problem, Darwin333, is that the banksters' actions weren't illegal. Serial deregulation carried out over the last 30 years combined with non-oversight during the Bush era made the whole speculative frenzy possible. That deregulative effort was championed by repubs, who've also managed to thwart more comprehensive financial rules in the wake of near collapse brought on by their own policy.

If you can't accept that, you're living in La-la land.

Bullshit, not only bullshit but bullshit that is being proven wrong every single day.

They committed an untold amount of fraud and still do, that is a crime.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Says a person who's living under the lowest federal tax rates of the postwar era....

Denial is an obvious requisite for wearing a Rightie headset, for sure.

I know! And look where those low taxes have gotten us. We need 99.44% tax rate on EVERYONE and we'll be rich. I don't deserve the money the government grants me every day for allowing me to work and be born in this great country. Please masters of government, take my money and spend it for the betterment of society before I waste it on something for my own family.

 

[Jhhnn]

I know! And look where those low taxes have gotten us. We need 99.44% tax rate on EVERYONE and we'll be rich. I don't deserve the money the government grants me every day for allowing me to work and be born in this great country. Please masters of government, take my money and spend it for the betterment of society before I waste it on something for my own family.

Hate to have to break it to you, but reductio ad absurdum isn't an argument, it's a logical fallacy.

By your reasoning, paying no taxes at all, like they do in Somalia, would obviously be of great benefit to us all...

Your childish rants are tedious in the extreme. I've heard better reasoning from rapturous whacked out Jesus freaks raving on the 16th st mall...

 

[Fear No Evil]

Hate to have to break it to you, but reductio ad absurdum isn't an argument, it's a logical fallacy.

By your reasoning, paying no taxes at all, like they do in Somalia, would obviously be of great benefit to us all...

Your childish rants are tedious in the extreme. I've heard better reasoning from rapturous whacked out Jesus freaks raving on the 16th st mall...

How about this.. 3.8 trillion or whatever insane # the Obama administration is spending is MORE than enough to cover the costs of providing what the federal government should.

 

[brencat]

I went from BS to MBA to CFA charter before I was 27. All through public schools and my own hard labor. I don't attribute any of it to anything but me being born in a good place, had smart parents who picked a good school district, my own hard work which could be leveraged using other public schools and the rest of this country.

Furthermore, how much do you really need while your consumers of products and fellow Americans are wallowing in poverty, sickness, and effective servitude?

Wait, you're one of those who doesn't give a shit about them. That's right.

Bolded part for emphasis...you said it twice. You are successful, like me, because of MOSTLY YOU...your hard work and drive. I guess I'm not burdened by all the guilt you seem to have for everyone else not like you. And I give plenty to charity by the way, so don't think I'm completely heartless.

But I know that no matter how much the govt takes from me and no matter what century it is, the poor will always be with us. To think we will evolve to a point of some bullshit utopia where everyone has a living wage and there is no suffering or poverty is pure fantasy. And frankly, the lifestyle I choose to lead vis-a-vi how many "toys" I wish to acquire in my life is none of your damn business, nor should it be the govt's either.

To take and take and take to redistribute is the complete opposite of what freedom is supposed to be. So go ahead and cry and feel guilty about your success. I encourage you to pay more in tax if you feel you're not paying enough. Help reduce the national debt.

I was unemployed for most of 2008, and so I know what uncertainty is. But because of how I live (modestly), and because I PLAN my life for the unexpected, I was able to hold out. Should I feel bad about the guy who made more than me but lived paycheck to paycheck and had to sell his house when he lost his job too? Nope. Fvck him...lived stupidly and paid the price. Will I be unemployed in my life again? While I hope not, the odds are highly likely given I work in Finance like you. In the meantime, I will keep doing what I'm doing, and enjoying life while I still can...without your guilt.

 

[BoberFett]

Yeah, government doesn't do anything. 🙄

How do you suppose companies transport their goods, workers get to work, businesses get investment capital, business resolve legal issues, bankruptcies, etc.

What do any of those things (other than interstate business issues) have to do with a massive federal bureaucracy? States can't build roads? And if the government is responsible for business capital, why are Democrats blaming the evil rich for not loaning more money to businesses? Sounds like capital is a function of the, wait for it, capitalist system.

 

[Generator]

Any rich person paying 35% isn't rich enough. This tax fight isn't over 35% or 39.6%, but things like capital gains, dividends, estate taxes.

Estate is 0%.
Divs and Cap Gains are 15%.

Then there are litany of tax deductions, loss carry overs, income deferments. Somewhere in between all that the rich don't want to see that go. If you think you're rich and paying 35% a not 10% then you're just another sucker.

 

[aka1nas]

How about this.. 3.8 trillion or whatever insane # the Obama administration is spending is MORE than enough to cover the costs of providing what the federal government should.

Citation needed.

 

[dmcowen674]

I watched Boner and Pence on TV this morning, pretty strongly indicate that they wanted to extend ALL of the tax cuts.

The dems want to extend everything except the top bracket of 35% (which will go back to 39.6%")

Why can't they just get together, split the difference at say 37% for the top bracket, extend all the rest, and call it a day?

Bullcrap

Did you know that the tax bracket for the rich was 91%?

That's right, they lived on 9% and still had more money than they could spend just like now.

The only difference now is that they starve the country while bitching about it at the same time.

It's time to kick the bitches out of this country they hate so much.

YouTube is blocked so pardon this link to YouTube but this woman is a Patriot, the rich bastard Ben Stein she is calling out should be one of the first to get thrown out of here on his ass

9-26-2010

Linda McGibney rebuffs Ben Stein on rich paying more tax

 

[BoberFett]

Dave you retarded little monkey, nobody ever actually paid 91%.

 

[dmcowen674]

Dave you retarded little monkey, nobody ever actually paid 91%.

You dumbass, try that little website called google for a change


10-10-2009 Why we need to return to the 91 percent top bracket income taxes of the Eisenhower years

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/dwight-d-eisenhower-vs-an_b_316479.html

The rate hit 91 percent during the Eisenhower years on incomes that today would be about $3 million. That means the next dollar of income would send 91 cents to the Treasury (while the tax rate applied to the first $3 million was lower). Our economy did not suffer. Quite the contrary, this coincided with America's economic "Golden Age." And we had no financial crashes. Yes, there were all kinds of loopholes but we had the narrowest distribution of income on record during those years. Rich people were still rich, but the blind race to accumulate billions was held in check.

Eisenhower, a conservative Republican understood this well and kept our excesses in check. It's stunning that both our parties today don't have the guts to tackle our billionaire bailout society.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Dave you retarded little monkey, nobody ever actually paid 91%.

I'm offended that you would insult our simian friends by counting Dave among them.

 

[brencat]

10-10-2009 Why we need to return to the 91 percent top bracket income taxes of the Eisenhower years

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/dwight-d-eisenhower-vs-an_b_316479.html

Dave, I don't have a problem with establishing 5 or 6 new marginal rates at higher levels of income starting at $750k and above, as I've discussed at least twice in previous threads -- feel free to search for it. My issue has always been this fascination with $250k as the threshold where suddenly someone is rich. I live in NJ / work in NYC and pay a ridiculous amount of tax and I am NOT rich. $250k where I live is a joke.

The marginal effective tax rate at $250k needs to be lowered in my view to 30 - 32 pct while new rates of 35 pct need to apply starting at $500k moving up to 39 pct at $750k, 43 pct at $1.25 mil, etc, etc. topping out at 55 pct for $3 mil+ income. We need an immediate repeal of the carried interest provision too -- the Dems have had full control for 2 years...why hasn't this been done yet???! Lastly, we need a phase out of the favorable capital gains rate for the idle rich that earn 82% of their massive income from investments to ensure they pay closer to a 25-35% effective rate instead of 16.7%.

Once again, my concern is ensuring the middle and upper middle classes of high cost of living states like NJ-NY-CT-CA are not caught up in the 'soak the rich' crusade of redistributionist policies from this administration and some of you here.

 

[Bowfinger]

Bolded part for emphasis...you said it twice. You are successful, like me, because of MOSTLY YOU...your hard work and drive. ...

The point is that hard work alone isn't enough. One must also have the opportunity to succeed and access to the resources required to capitalize on the opportunity to create and grow one's business or career.

I'm sure there are thousands of people in Guatemala who work far, far harder than any of us, yet they make a minute fraction of what we do. Why? Because they don't have the opportunity and resources we do. The sharpest businessman in Guatemala is never going to build the next GE or IBM or Microsoft (at least not in Guatemala) because he just doesn't have access to the highly-educated workforce and the incredible physical and financial infrastructure necessary to build a business like that.

We do have that infrastructure and those resources in the United States, and it's in large part due to taxes invested in building and maintaining them. We have so many successful people because we've built a country where people who have the smarts and the drive (and maybe a little luck) can find opportunities to succeed. Taxes are the dues one pays for having those opportunities and being able to turn them into success. It's not about punishment. It's about paying the bills so the successful can remain successful and other people with brains and ambition will also have opportunities for success.

 

[brencat]

We do have that infrastructure and those resources in the United States, and it's in large part due to taxes invested in building and maintaining them. We have so many successful people because we've built a country where people who have the smarts and the drive (and maybe a little luck) can find opportunities to succeed. Taxes are the dues one pays for having those opportunities and being able to turn them into success. It's not about punishment. It's about paying the bills so the successful can remain successful and other people with brains and ambition will also have opportunities for success.

It's also due to our political system which has historically prized individual liberty and responsibility...free people working in individual harmony within the framework of a civil society. The issue becomes how much does a govt need to control and how much does it need to tax to provide a basic framework before it becomes too intrusive? Seriously...a govt that can tell you how much water to use in your toilet or what kind of lightbulb you are allowed to use is a govt that is far too powerful indeed.

 

[Tom]

Why aren't more Democrats pointing out that the first $250,000 earned by EVERYONE is getting a tax cut, not just for those making $250,000 and under?

I heard Nancy Pelosi make that exact point the other day.

What I find interesting is Republicans like to call this the largest tax increase in history, and at the same time say the deficits are huge.

 

[Craig234]

Seriously...a govt that can tell you how much water to use in your toilet or what kind of lightbulb you are allowed to use is a govt that is far too powerful indeed.

Ah, I remember Solzynhitsen's moving Nobel-awarded literature on the horrors of the Stalin regime's enforcing toilet water efficiency for the public good.

 

[Fern]

Originally Posted by Fear No Evil
Stunt for the Republicans? The Democrats have the ability to pass whatever they want.

Are you that ignorant? I mean, I gave you credit for huge ignorance, but that much?

Now Craig,

I'd be dissapointed in you if you weren't aware of the Budget Reconcilliation Process and it's purpose. Of course you're familiar with it.

So you know quite well that the Dems, who hold comfortable majorities in both Houses, could easily pass any tax bill they wished.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Hogwash. America's wealthiest aren't taking any risks, making any investments they don't have to make atm. They have enormous excess in their incomes, and they're stashing it under their mattresses or buying govt bonds. The only way to bring it back into circulation in the economy is via taxation.

Repubs are holding the middle class Bush taxcuts hostage to the taxcuts for the true Bush Constituency, and anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot realizes that.

I think you're confusing those who make (perhaps marginally) more than $250K with those (like fund managers) who regularly make millions or 10's of millions each year.

We've seen many threads here arguing about who is really 'rich' etc.

Maybe the solution, and perhaps an obvious one, is to create an additional bracket for those making over $500k or $1 million instead of just lumping the $250k people in with those unarguably super rich people.

Fern

 

[spidey07]

Everybody knows damn well why they can't compromise. Dems need ammunition to say "republicans are out to give tax cuts to billionaires when mainstreet is suffering *rabble*" and get the rabble rousing going.

Republicans want the ammunition to say "see! Democrats have huge tax hikes in middle of recession. *rabble*rabble*!"

Both sides are disingenuous to garner votes. That's why nothing was done before the election.

 

[GroundedSailor]

The point is that hard work alone isn't enough. One must also have the opportunity to succeed and access to the resources required to capitalize on the opportunity to create and grow one's business or career.

I'm sure there are thousands of people in Guatemala who work far, far harder than any of us, yet they make a minute fraction of what we do. Why? Because they don't have the opportunity and resources we do. The sharpest businessman in Guatemala is never going to build the next GE or IBM or Microsoft (at least not in Guatemala) because he just doesn't have access to the highly-educated workforce and the incredible physical and financial infrastructure necessary to build a business like that.

We do have that infrastructure and those resources in the United States, and it's in large part due to taxes invested in building and maintaining them. We have so many successful people because we've built a country where people who have the smarts and the drive (and maybe a little luck) can find opportunities to succeed. Taxes are the dues one pays for having those opportunities and being able to turn them into success. It's not about punishment. It's about paying the bills so the successful can remain successful and other people with brains and ambition will also have opportunities for success.

It's also due to our political system which has historically prized individual liberty and responsibility...free people working in individual harmony within the framework of a civil society. The issue becomes how much does a govt need to control and how much does it need to tax to provide a basic framework before it becomes too intrusive? Seriously...a govt that can tell you how much water to use in your toilet or what kind of lightbulb you are allowed to use is a govt that is far too powerful indeed.

individual liberty: how well has that worked out for say Somalia? The only innovation I know of that comes from there is increased high seas piracy.

What about all the entrepreneurs in other countries? What about the industrial revolution and all the inventions of those times?

Taxes help raise society's standards and as Bowfinger pointed out, provide resources, infrastructure and an environment where one can succeed.

The examples you chose are not particularly good ones as these are trying to put our resources to better use and minimize wastage.

..