Extending Tax Cuts, Why Can't the Politicians Compromise?

[brencat]

The dude making 250K/yr isnt sitting on cash making money off investments. They're most likely lawyers, business owners, doctors, etc working their butt off to make money. Once you get into the 500k-1m/yr territory then you get into the investment banker assholes who are screwing the country. Feel free to tax them, not the guys working for a buck.

Agreed. The idea of 250k being "rich" in NJ-NY-CT-CA is a fvcking joke. Especially in NJ & NY having to pay $18-$22k in property taxes out of after tax dollars to live in a 40 year old 4 bedroom/2 car garage home that's nothing special. No problem at all if the govt wants to establish a higher threshold level like you suggest or better yet establish new marginal rates at substantially higher levels while lowering the existing percentages for the thresholds we have now.

 

[her209]

After Reagan was elected, I remember mostly how good everyone felt, and how proud they were to be American again. Therein lies the big difference.

LOL... everyone felt good?

Regan's approval rating bottom out in mid-1983.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html

 

[spidey07]

I've said this before and fully agree with it. How rich would those "hard working" people be if they were born in somolia? Hmmm? If roving bands of marauders went around chopping arms off.

No the reason they are able to make a lot of money is because they were lucky enough to be born in this environment. They should afford that opportunity to all who are here.

Yes, yes, blessed be government, the giver and taker of everything.

Our country and it's liberty is why everybody comes here and because if you work hard you can become very "rich".

 

[JSt0rm]

Yes, yes, blessed be government, the giver and taker of everything.

Strawman.

 

[her209]

Agreed. The idea of 250k being "rich" in NJ-NY-CT-CA is a fvcking joke. Especially in NJ & NY having to pay $18-$22k in property taxes out of after tax dollars to live in a 40 year old 4 bedroom/2 car garage home that's nothing special. No problem at all if the govt wants to establish a higher threshold level like you suggest or better yet establish new marginal rates at substantially higher levels while lowering the existing percentages for the thresholds we have now.

I thought real estate taxes and personal property taxes were tax deductible, i.e., it lowers your taxable income.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc503.html

 

[brencat]

No the reason they are able to make a lot of money is because they were lucky enough to be born in this environment. They should afford that opportunity to all who are here.

So, because of the "luck" of being born here, I should be appreciative and thankful that the govt is only taking 45-50% of what I earn (factoring in state and local taxes too) instead of 70-90% ? Seriously, what kind of fvcking logic is that?

One thing I've observed over the years is that liberals tend to attribute a much greater percentage of success to luck than those who busted their ass in school, didn't take no for an answer, and relentlessly pursued their dreams in the face of great odds and numerous setbacks. No sir...luck to me is more often recognizing and capitalizing on a opportunity presented to you after years spent laying the groundwork for success. Luck may also be the grace of God answering prayers if you believe in such things.

 

[spidey07]

Strawman.

It's the entire belief in liberals and you've displayed it again. That because of our "system" allows one to succeed they should pay for that system because they were "lucky" to succeed and it's because of government that they did.

It's the complete opposite of how a free man thinks.

 

[brencat]

LOL... everyone felt good?

Regan's approval rating bottom out in mid-1983.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html

He was president until 1988 genius. 20mm+ jobs created, the defeat of the Soviets without WW3, American hegemony and influence projected globally. A great time to be alive. Massive debt creation was the only major downside.

 

[her209]

He was president until 1988 genius. 20mm+ jobs created, the defeat of the Soviets without WW3, American hegemony and influence projected globally. A great time to be alive. Massive debt creation was the only major downside.

So you're comparing 2 years of Obama to 8 years of Reagan.

 

[LegendKiller]

So, because of the "luck" of being born here, I should be appreciative and thankful that the govt is only taking 45-50% of what I earn (factoring in state and local taxes too) instead of 70-90% ? Seriously, what kind of fvcking logic is that?

One thing I've observed over the years is that liberals tend to attribute a much greater percentage of success to luck than those who busted their ass in school, didn't take no for an answer, and relentlessly pursued their dreams in the face of great odds and numerous setbacks. No sir...luck to me is more often recognizing and capitalizing on a opportunity presented to you after years spent laying the groundwork for success. Luck may also be the grace of God answering prayers if you believe in such things.

Where did those schools come from? Where did the companies come from? Where did the purchasers of the goods purchased come from?

Ohh wait, from the society that generate(d)(s) them on a continual basis.


I went from BS to MBA to CFA charter before I was 27. All through public schools and my own hard labor. I don't attribute any of it to anything but me being born in a good place, had smart parents who picked a good school district, my own hard work which could be leveraged using other public schools and the rest of this country.

To think otherwise is intellectually bankrupt, self deceiving, and ignorant to reality.

Furthermore, how much do you really need while your consumers of products and fellow Americans are wallowing in poverty, sickness, and effective servitude?

Wait, you're one of those who doesn't give a shit about them. That's right.

It's sad that wanting more has become so popular and that poor people are more deserving of derision than respect, recognition, and the same opportunities as the rest of us have.


You are nothing more than somebody who wants feudal conditions to return. You're a despot who would rather crumple people under a jackboot than allow them to succeed. It's pathetic.

 

[LegendKiller]

He was president until 1988 genius. 20mm+ jobs created, the defeat of the Soviets without WW3, American hegemony and influence projected globally. A great time to be alive. Massive debt creation was the only major downside.

Yes, 20MM jobs created why? Ohh that's right, because Volcker was the one who set up the system for them to be created. Carter appointed Volcker because an inflation problem that wasn't caused by him.

Sovs were falling anyway, the spy information coming out of France showed that they could not keep up militarily or economically. It would have happened one way or another.

Those 20MM were not directly attributable to Reagan as much as any other president causing massed jobs outside of Fed policy or natural movements of economic cycles.

Reagan was a terrible president, presiding over many massive scandals, the beginning of the spend/debt idiocy, trickle down economics (which has been abandoned by its founders)...etc.

Carter got a bad wrap for the Iran hostages (and the failed rescue) and inflation (which wasn't his fault).

 

[her209]

It's the entire belief in liberals and you've displayed it again. That because of our "system" allows one to succeed they should pay for that system because they were "lucky" to succeed and it's because of government that they did.

It's the complete opposite of how a free man thinks.

Yeah, government doesn't do anything.

How do you suppose companies transport their goods, workers get to work, businesses get investment capital, business resolve legal issues, bankruptcies, etc.

 

[JSt0rm]

One thing I've observed over the years is that liberals tend to attribute a much greater percentage of success to luck than those who busted their ass in school, didn't take no for an answer, and relentlessly pursued their dreams in the face of great odds and numerous setbacks. No sir...luck to me is more often recognizing and capitalizing on a opportunity presented to you after years spent laying the groundwork for success. Luck may also be the grace of God answering prayers if you believe in such things.

Dont be obtuse. Not only do you have to be lucky enough to be born here or move here but after all of that you need the ability to bust your ass and follow your dreams.

 

[JSt0rm]

It's the entire belief in liberals and you've displayed it again. That because of our "system" allows one to succeed they should pay for that system because they were "lucky" to succeed and it's because of government that they did.

Thats not what i said. Again you are creating strawmen. You need hard work AFTER the luck of the draw.

 

[her209]

Thats not what i said. Again you are creating strawmen. You need hard work AFTER the luck of the draw.

And if you fail, declare bankruptcy so the rest of us can pick up the tab via higher interest rates.

 

[Craig234]

You are completely mad! Carter was by far the WORST president this country has ever had and a total failure as well. Obama is not far behind him and there is still 2 years to go. I was a young kid and I remember how impotent he was in dealing with the hostage crisis in Iran, how angry and embarrassed my parents were for our country that we had him in the Oval Office.

After Reagan was elected, I remember mostly how good everyone felt, and how proud they were to be American again. Therein lies the big difference.

Al Gore invented the internet...omg you've got to be kidding me...

You're ignorant. Watch this 60 Minutes clipon Carter for a bit of info and get back to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6881954n

You don't understand the disaster Reagan was, propped up by marketing your parents fell for.

Yes, Al Gore played a key role, the leading role in the government, in the internet.

 

[theeedude]

GOP needs to compromise and stop blocking vote on tax cuts for the middle class.

 

[her209]

GOP needs to compromise and stop blocking vote on tax cuts for the middle class.

There is no compromise with the GOP. They've made that clear. Its their way or the highway. The "tax cuts for the first 250,000" was the compromise and its still rejected.

 

[Darwin333]

we need to tax the wealthy more so they have a desire to move the money around. I think most of america realizes how bad the last decade was for the middle class and this stunt will backfire for the republicans.

How exactly does taxing them more give them a desire to "move the money around". Most of the time you move money around (at least in the way I think you are suggesting) it is taxed in some form or fashion. Furthermore, exactly how does them having less money make them want to "move it around more"?

We need to tax everyone more and spend less, it really is that simple. I would agree that now isn't the best time to jack up everyones taxes but the math is pretty damn easy to do.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, because of the "luck" of being born here, I should be appreciative and thankful that the govt is only taking 45-50% of what I earn (factoring in state and local taxes too) instead of 70-90% ? Seriously, what kind of fvcking logic is that?

One thing I've observed over the years is that liberals tend to attribute a much greater percentage of success to luck than those who busted their ass in school, didn't take no for an answer, and relentlessly pursued their dreams in the face of great odds and numerous setbacks. No sir...luck to me is more often recognizing and capitalizing on a opportunity presented to you after years spent laying the groundwork for success. Luck may also be the grace of God answering prayers if you believe in such things.

Hogwash. Average total taxation for the top 1% of incomes is ~30%, less for those in the lower ranks. You're not paying 50% unless you're single, standard deduction, living in NYC, and making upward of $400K salary + bonus annually.

The rest of it reads like a propaganda poster in defense of the uber-wealthy. Did the guy who made $4B work 10,000 times harder than the guy who made $400K? 100,000 times harder than the guy who made $40K? In your fevered delusions, do you think that's even possible? Does the fact that the $4B earner will pay ~15% federal tax on his so-called capital gains income while the $400K earner will pay more like 25% on his salary income make any sense to you at all?

Or do you think that everybody can be a hedge fund manager, all at the same time?

 

[theeedude]

Just goes to show how little GOP cares about the middle class that they will let all the tax cuts expire if the rich can't have them.

 

[Darwin333]

Hogwash. America's wealthiest aren't taking any risks, making any investments they don't have to make atm. They have enormous excess in their incomes, and they're stashing it under their mattresses or buying govt bonds. The only way to bring it back into circulation in the economy is via taxation.

That is kinda the smart thing to do in this kind of economy. Unless of course you really want all the rich bastards to go bankrupt? That is a whole lot of "bosses" with a whole lot of ex-employees. Rampant fraud in our financial system, including the markets themselves, wishy washy economic data and the potential for a double dip recession.... I am saving a bit more right now too.

Repubs are holding the middle class Bush taxcuts hostage to the taxcuts for the true Bush Constituency, and anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot realizes that.

2% of country is the Repubs "true constituency"? Does that mean I can call the Banksters the Dems "true constituency" since the Dems have and continue to allow them to make mega fortunes via fraudulent and illegal activities? Hell, they even made accounting fraud legal for them.

 

[Darwin333]

Bitch, please. Do you even realize how short-term your thinking is? Wealth accumulation at the top has locked out the rest of the population from achieving any meaningful wealth accumulation. Eventually this top-heavy plutocracy will lead to an inevitable overthrow of the quasi-aristocracy. Do you think the poor will be content being virtual serfs to the investor class while the likes of Paris Hilton do nothing but live off the largess of her predecessors?

Furthermore, the trickle-down economics of the last 30 years have led to nothing but massive waste, debt, and a going nowhere economy.

<cough> A large portion of that was caused by the banksters, arguably in the same category of people we are talking about but definately a group that should be singled out. The cost of housing and the cost of insurance are a huge reason the middle class has been going backwards. I wonder what group of people profited the most from the former?

 

[Jhhnn]

That is kinda the smart thing to do in this kind of economy. Unless of course you really want all the rich bastards to go bankrupt? That is a whole lot of "bosses" with a whole lot of ex-employees. Rampant fraud in our financial system, including the markets themselves, wishy washy economic data and the potential for a double dip recession.... I am saving a bit more right now too.

In no way does that counter anything I offered.

2% of country is the Repubs "true constituency"? Does that mean I can call the Banksters the Dems "true constituency" since the Dems have and continue to allow them to make mega fortunes via fraudulent and illegal activities? Hell, they even made accounting fraud legal for them.

More like .1% of the country. The rest seem to be dupes who think with their gonads rather than their brains, easy suckers for deceptive emotional pitches.

So, uhh, who started the bank bailouts, anyway? Who created the Greenspan put (Greenspan is a lifelong republican)? Who championed the Ownership Society, cutting red tape and creating the kind of environment where fraud was both rampant and legal? Who insisted that the GSE's make more "affordable" (fraudulent) loans with the actions of their regulators, HUD?

It's not like Dems could have nationalized the bastards, the Swedish solution, with Dubya in the Whitehouse or after the process had been initiated, either... They could either go along with the bailouts or watch it all fall down...

 

[Darwin333]

You are nothing more than somebody who wants feudal conditions to return. You're a despot who would rather crumple people under a jackboot than allow them to succeed. It's pathetic.

When you say "jackboot" you are referring to the banksters, right? They are the lawless bastards that are sucking much more wealth out of the middle class and even what a lot of people here consider "rich". That is where a metric fuckton of that wealth concentration is and a ton of it is due to blatant illegal fraud. Other banksters helped them fuel things like the housing bubble that drained even more wealth from the "commoner" and sent it straight to the jackboots. Funny how most people are suffering in this economy right now but they have went from "OMFG THE WORLD IS GONNA END!! MARTIAL LAW!!! TANKS ON HOLLYWOOD BLVD!!!" to record profits isn't it?

You wanna talk about concentration of wealth, thats where it is at. We have laws on the books to prosecute them for fraud (and multiple other crimes) but for some unknown reason (sarcasm intended) we don't and that goes for both parties. The tax law is a very small part of what you are talking about but again it is serving its intended purpose, misdirection.