Extending drug testing to all students, Yea or Nay?

[mithrandir2001]

<< Your post indicates that you favor lawlessness without consequences. >>

Reality check. I break the law every day because there is seemingly no chance that I will drive on some strip of road without going over the speed limit...myself and about 90% of the drivers on the road.

Nobody fully complies with the law in every dimension, nor should they, really, because not all law breakage harms others. Living a goody two shoes life has to be miserable.


<< By the way, most responsible employers require mandatory drug testing during the course of employment, not just at the start. Truck drivers are required to be tested on a regular, unannounced basis. There are many more positions that require testing, and rightfully so.

Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


I don't defend use AT school or AT the workplace, but what people do in their private lives behind closed doors is really not my concern. Should pilots and train conductors be tested? Well, I'm fine with that because that's more of a "fitness" test. But for a desk job? Bah. By making drug testing such an issue, they are basically saying that drug use is the only negative factor affecting job performance. Why not also test people for martial stress, abusive relationships, alcohol abuse, gambling addiction, pornography addiction, etc.?

I've pee'd in cups, been tapped for blood, had my hair pulled out. Bullsh!t. All tests came up negative. Could have told them that and saved both of us the hassle and expense. It's oddly ironic, isn't it: We're told that any drug use whatsoever is bad, but people with a track record of success are still tested. Why, then? It's like "Mr. Jones, you've done an excellent job at GE and your references spoke highly of you, but your drug test shows traces of THC, so I'm afraid we cannot hire you." Hey, it's their loss for having a jihad against the bogeyman.

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< What problem? >>


Very intelligent response. You're right of course, there is no problem. You may now insert your cranium back in your rectum.



<< I think obesity is a problem, mabey mandatory diet and exercise? >>


I agree it is a problem. It's not what we are talking about in this thread.

 

[killface]

<< In my experience, teen drug use is as follows: The stupid people take drugs, because they're too dumb to be afraid of them. The smart people don't, because they're smart enough/nerdy enough to avoid them. And the truly smart people (the people who are bored in honors classes) take drugs because they're smart enough not to be afraid of them. >>


LOL - Sounds like my high school. This one group of about 15 kids were the biggest stoners/acid heads in my school. Almost every single one of them was in advanced placement classes. Then again, there were also the greasers, who got stoned and worked on their cars. My friends and I smoked a bit in high school and were on all the honor roll as well.

 

[Ultima]

<<

<<

<< Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


Let's just change people's words around and see if nobody notices

Nobody ever said that they support drug use at school and in the work place. They feel that if someone wants to do something in THEIR OWN FREE TIME and it doesn't affect their performance, it should be nobody's business but their own >>



Can you name a few drugs that don't affect performance? >>



I've smoked weed on the weekends and it never affected my performance in school.

 

[Ultima]

<<

<<

<< Yes, you are. >>


clever resonse....

answer the question:
Have you ever drank, smoked or done drugs? >>



I do drink a fine wine with meals once a week.

Smoking? No. That has always annoyed me.

Drugs. No. Life is too good to be altered by artificial stimulants. >>



So are you saying life is too good for that glass of wine? Alcohol is a drug and artificial stimulant just like any other drug

 

[Ultima]

<< while they're at it, why dont they search us for "pirated copies" of music/software? At my hs, you rarely see "legal" copies of stuff anymore...

Yes and listening to music may affect your learning experience >>



rarely? hehe, how about never? Back in HS burners weren't all that common yet and a few people in my class would make tons of cash selling ripped CD's for $3. Most of us didn't have money to buy it in the store, so it wasn't really a moral issue with anyone.

 

[Ultima]

I used to go to school in a rural area, and over 50% of the people there did weed. About 100% drank alcohol. Once they had a dog come in and guess what, they didn't catch anyone!. A guy had an ounce in his pocket and the dog didn't notice or it did but they didn't care. lmao...

 

[Ultima]

<< Reading this thread is like watching the lunatics trying to decide how to run the asylum. Let me run a hypothetical past you.
1. You do random drug testing just like the military. Everbody's eligible, students and faculty. I've pissed three days in a row and gone 6 months without.
2. You "pop positive" you get counseling or maybe some drug awareness classes. Not a police record, but a record is kept at school. At tis point in the military you would probably get discharged
3. Second time you "pop positive" you get suspended. You would also be evaluated for dependency and receive treatment if necessary.
4. Third time you are expelled.

I'm sure none of you children like this plan. It works. Look at how much drug use there is in the military. Almost none. Come up with a better one to alleviate the drug problem. I don't consider legalizing drugs fixing the problem. >>



opium? hehe

 

[LH]

Its not just fvcking pot you dumbasses. Highschool kids do alot of other drugs these days(they always have). Kids don't have rights in public schools. Besides, they should get used to it, 90% of companies do drug testing.

 

[NeoV]

boy oh boy are some of you still in school in for a rude awakening...


Companies are allowed to give you drug tests as part of their screening process before they hire you, right? Is anyone screaming about invasions of privacy there?

My bottom line on this issue is - schools use money to operate, right? Private and public schools don't run on good will, they need money to pay for facilities, faculty, etc....if any money for public schools comes from taxation, then I say I don't want ONE CENT of that money to pay for educating teenage drug users, I don't care what kind of drug it is, illegal means illegal. I am not going to get into the debate of whether or not pot should be legal, that isn't the issue for me here. Private schools of course should be able to decide if they want to test students for illegal drug use or not.

I think the people complaining about this happening might be afraid of their parents confronting them when they are told by their child's school that they tested positive!

I think this is a great idea to lower teen drug use. I think most people realize that they at least need to graduate HS to have any kind of chance to succeed later in life (yes, there are exceptions, but as a general rule that is kind of a starting point). If not being allowed to attend HS, or at least being on some sort of probationary status (where you have to test clean after X amount of time since your first positive test ) might just get some kids to stop.

Killface, your post is one of the most disturbing posts I have ever read on ATOT. The 'truly smart' kids take drugs because they know not to be afraid? My god that is scary if you think that is at all accurate.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE H3LL IS SO GREAT ABOUT TAKING DRUGS?! High school is such a fun time, there is so much to do, I just don't get it. Killface, I saw with my own eyes someone I knew very well go into cardiac arrest and die from taking herion..we were on spring break down in Ft. Lauderdale, and he came stumbling out of the bathroom and died right there in front of us. You tell me why that is nothing to be afraid of?

Don't give me any of this freedom crap either, the constitution was written well before there was a drug problem, well before there were armor-piercing bullets, well before there were computers, or global communications, or terrorists, or 30,000+ deaths every year from people driving and drinking, so don't go telling me that the 4th amendment prohibits a damn thing...if you really think the USA would be less of a wonderous place to live if there were mandatory drug testing in high schools, they don't appreciate how good we have things here.

/rant

 

[Ultima]

Someone else posted about some people in this thread having upturned noses, and I think that's right. I never judged anyone for smoking weed, because I actually see it as less harmful than drinking alcohol. Lots of people have done stupid things on alcohol including me (which is why I rarely get drunk these days), but I've yet to meet someone being a total ass on weed. I think many people here simply fear what they don't understand, and their only knowledge is what government propoganda feeds them. Seems to me like these are the same sort of people that think all poor people are stupid or lazy. Seems to me like these people are the type that will stay in the left lane going 65mph or 100km/h and say "tough sh!t, I'm going the speed limit and I'm not breaking the law, so I'm going to make things harder for you just because".

 

[Ultima]

It is totally accurate. Out of all the people I know who smoke weed, most are very smart people. There is one who is a dumb kid, though. Kicking kids out for weed use would be horrible. What if that had happened to me? I wouldn't be here in college getting a 85% average now, would I? Don't you get it? There's no reason to punish people like me if we're getting good grades. All that would have done is totally ruin my education. Why don't you throw out ALL the people getting bad grades? If ever there is mandatory drug testing, it better be only applied to people with averages of 69% and less. When it comes to me working, then yes, I'll be forced to stop smoking weed for good. That doesn't bother me, as I was never addicted. In the mean time, I'll think I'll enjoy my life while I'm still in college, thank you




<< boy oh boy are some of you still in school in for a rude awakening...


Companies are allowed to give you drug tests as part of their screening process before they hire you, right? Is anyone screaming about invasions of privacy there?

My bottom line on this issue is - schools use money to operate, right? Private and public schools don't run on good will, they need money to pay for facilities, faculty, etc....if any money for public schools comes from taxation, then I say I don't want ONE CENT of that money to pay for educating teenage drug users, I don't care what kind of drug it is, illegal means illegal. I am not going to get into the debate of whether or not pot should be legal, that isn't the issue for me here. Private schools of course should be able to decide if they want to test students for illegal drug use or not.

I think the people complaining about this happening might be afraid of their parents confronting them when they are told by their child's school that they tested positive!

I think this is a great idea to lower teen drug use. I think most people realize that they at least need to graduate HS to have any kind of chance to succeed later in life (yes, there are exceptions, but as a general rule that is kind of a starting point). If not being allowed to attend HS, or at least being on some sort of probationary status (where you have to test clean after X amount of time since your first positive test ) might just get some kids to stop.

Killface, your post is one of the most disturbing posts I have ever read on ATOT. The 'truly smart' kids take drugs because they know not to be afraid? My god that is scary if you think that is at all accurate.

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE H3LL IS SO GREAT ABOUT TAKING DRUGS?! High school is such a fun time, there is so much to do, I just don't get it. Killface, I saw with my own eyes someone I knew very well go into cardiac arrest and die from taking herion..we were on spring break down in Ft. Lauderdale, and he came stumbling out of the bathroom and died right there in front of us. You tell me why that is nothing to be afraid of?

Don't give me any of this freedom crap either, the constitution was written well before there was a drug problem, well before there were armor-piercing bullets, well before there were computers, or global communications, or terrorists, or 30,000+ deaths every year from people driving and drinking, so don't go telling me that the 4th amendment prohibits a damn thing...if you really think the USA would be less of a wonderous place to live if there were mandatory drug testing in high schools, they don't appreciate how good we have things here.

/rant >>

 

[SpecialEd]

<< Smokers stink, and drunks are sickening. >>



dude, its not illegal have nicotine or alcohol in your system... it doesn't matter how much they find.

 

[DanFungus]

ahahaha--a girl was in the talent show for my school, but was found smoking pot ON SCHOOL CAMPUS and was suspended for 5 days (max. days in our district) and the whole group got taken out of the. I feel sorry for the other guys, but she has to be really stupid, and stupid people deserve what they have coming to them, especially if they bring it upon themselves

 

[NeoV]

Ultima, this issue obviously hits home for you because you are a drug-user, so your opinions are not really being very objective now, are they?

Gov't propaganda? Regardless of what you think of it, pot is illegal, period. It is a medical fact that it isn't good for you, despite the fact that you might enjoy it. Alchohol is a huge problem as well, but that isnt the discussion here. (by the way, I don't think anyone on the planet is saying that if you drink a glass of wine with a meal every once in a while you are doing anything wrong).

I think the prior post about how effective drug testing is in the military hits the nail on the head, it works. It might be a huge wake-up call for parents across the country, but after a year or two, and all the surprises are out of the bag, I think you would see a huge reduction in teen drug use...

 

[tweakmm]

<< Gov't propaganda? Regardless of what you think of it, pot is illegal, period. It is a medical fact that it isn't good for you, despite the fact that you might enjoy it. Alchohol is a huge problem as well, but that isnt the discussion here. (by the way, I don't think anyone on the planet is saying that if you drink a glass of wine with a meal every once in a while you are doing anything wrong).
>>


You do know why pot is illegal right? Paper and cotton companies pay big money to keep weed and its sister plant hemp illegal. Why? Because hemp would put them all out of business.
And you are saying that the laws are always right? Earlier in our country's history, it was illegal for black people to vote. Are you saying that black people shouldn't be voting? It was illegal to help a slave escape slavery? Are you saying that people who opperated on the underground rail road were bad people because the broke the law?

 

[royaldank]

<< My bottom line on this issue is - schools use money to operate, right? Private and public schools don't run on good will, they need money to pay for facilities, faculty, etc....if any money for public schools comes from taxation, then I say I don't want ONE CENT of that money to pay for educating teenage drug users, I don't care what kind of drug it is, illegal means illegal. I am not going to get into the debate of whether or not pot should be legal, that isn't the issue for me here. Private schools of course should be able to decide if they want to test students for illegal drug use or not. >>



That is pretty narrow minded that you don't want to pay for educating drug users. If this is true, then what is your take on this: Every student in the school must put a virus on their home computer which will be monitored for illegal activities. Or, they have the right to come to your house and search your harddrives for anything illegal. I'm sure you don't want to pay for underage theives that stealing and committing copyright infringment. You don't want to pay for the sex-aholic that is getting off on chats all night. Anyone caught agreeing to be 18 if they aren't.



<< WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE H3LL IS SO GREAT ABOUT TAKING DRUGS?! High school is such a fun time, there is so much to do, I just don't get it. Killface, I saw with my own eyes someone I knew very well go into cardiac arrest and die from taking herion..we were on spring break down in Ft. Lauderdale, and he came stumbling out of the bathroom and died right there in front of us. You tell me why that is nothing to be afraid of?
>>



I'll put it this way. It's fun. You have a good time while you're high. I only smoke pot and do shrooms, so I can't exactly speak for other drugs except speculate. But look at this way. Dale Earnhardt loved racing NASCAR. How many people died in Nascar while he was racing? Near deaths? But still, he loved racing because it was fun. I like smoking pot. I have a good time and it makes me feel good. Sometimes, it's not all that fun, but I'm sure Dale had days he didn't like. Can they both kill you? Pot, no, but many other recreational drugs can. Nascar sure as hell can, ask Dale. People do lots of stupid stuff because it's exciting or fun. Maybe it being illegal adds fun to it, but drugs aren't exclusive in that manner either.

I've studied what I take and I did that before I tried them. Pot will hurt my lungs, but other than that it causes no real damage. Shrooms are pretty darn safe and out of your system in 3 days.

 

[mithrandir2001]

<< if any money for public schools comes from taxation, then I say I don't want ONE CENT of that money to pay for educating teenage drug users, I don't care what kind of drug it is, illegal means illegal. >>


So you find it morally justifiable to deny a minor's right to an education because they made an judgement error, an error which frequently does not infringe on the rights of others? What other forms of illegal activities qualify for your litmus test? Should taxpayers even fund public education because most kids invariably get into some form of trouble?

Again, absolute drug prohibition is yet another case of some people's morality being forceably applied on the entire population. In terms of drugs, I do not believe "illegal means illegal". I smoked a few joints in college and plenty of alcohol while underage and I've become an fine citizen, paying a goodly amount of taxes and never having a run-in with the law. You see, I can think for myself. I don't need the government to tell me how to run my life and can choose activities that don't harm others. Maybe not everybody can do the same, but I refuse to live like a drone because some people do bad.


<< WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE H3LL IS SO GREAT ABOUT TAKING DRUGS?! >>


I'm not necessarily advocating the widespread use of drugs or even saying they are desirable. I personally found pot to be a bit overrated and would not try harder drugs. But I view casual/experimental drug use as an affirmation of liberty. It's saying "life is not about absolutes. Saying something victimless is 100% absolutely totally wrong is misleading and intellectually dangerous. Let me, as a free-thinking free-willed individual, discover things on my own and not take what other people lay down as the inequivocable truth." We aren't talking murder, theft or rape here. We're talking about people wanting to consume some naturally-existing substances. Heck, some modern countries permit casual drug use, so a free-thinking individual could come to the conclusion that the USA is being unbearably stiff on its War on drugs.


<< Don't give me any of this freedom crap either >>


Freedom should never be easily discarded. It's perhaps the most precious thing we have.