Extending drug testing to all students, Yea or Nay?

[skull]

<< do you believe that these drug tests are for catching any other drug users? How many people do you know who snort coke and go to public high school? How about shoot heroin? Crack? How about smoke pot... yeah... that's what I thought >>



Actually there are quite a few kids who do coke in high school but we don't need drug tests to get them out most of them get kicked out for other problems.

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<< You totally missed the point!

My point was: Mandatory drug testing is not violating the 4th Amendment.

Go back and read it in its context. >>


I did read it in its context. Home Depot isn't slapped with 4th Amendment suits because you can DECIDE whether you want to apply for a job (thereby taking the test) or not. High school attendance is mandatory for minors so they cannot decide whether they can be subjected to the test or not. By making it mandatory and subsequently scooping everybody up into the test, you are making unreasonable searches. You also have to prove why a kid who tests positive on such a test should somehow be penalized by being denied an education. To Home Depot, it's just a (flawed) corporate decision. But a public school system is not in the business of checking the chemical compositions of students who otherwise display no disciplinary problems. >>



Your post indicates that you favor lawlessness without consequences.

By the way, most responsible employers require mandatory drug testing during the course of employment, not just at the start. Truck drivers are required to be tested on a regular, unannounced basis. There are many more positions that require testing, and rightfully so.

Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace?

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<< << Absolutely!

Smokers stink, and drunks are sickening. >>


Let me guess. You never smoked, drank or touched any substance in your life. You have straight A's and a full ride to a university. Must be a great life being a tool. >>



Amen. Lots of the people in this thread are speaking from their turned up noses and voicing their poorly thought out opinions. >>



Yes, you are.

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<< do you believe that these drug tests are for catching any other drug users? How many people do you know who snort coke and go to public high school? How about shoot heroin? Crack? How about smoke pot... yeah... that's what I thought >>



Actually there are quite a few kids who do coke in high school but we don't need drug tests to get them out most of them get kicked out for other problems. >>



Thanks! There are some who believe that weed is the ONLY thing some kids are playing with.

If they would turn back to page one and read the question. It does say, "drug testing", which covers a lot more than weed.

 

[db]

And to show how much they want to stamp out drugs, they should do the same with faculty and administration.
Certainly they are not above the law any more than the students.

 

[tweakmm]

<< Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


Let's just change people's words around and see if nobody notices

Nobody ever said that they support drug use at school and in the work place. They feel that if someone wants to do something in THEIR OWN FREE TIME and it doesn't affect their performance, it should be nobody's business but their own

 

[tweakmm]

<< Yes, you are. >>


clever resonse....

answer the question:
Have you ever drank, smoked or done drugs?

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<< Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


Let's just change people's words around and see if nobody notices

Nobody ever said that they support drug use at school and in the work place. They feel that if someone wants to do something in THEIR OWN FREE TIME and it doesn't affect their performance, it should be nobody's business but their own >>



Can you name a few drugs that don't affect performance?

 

[tweakmm]

<<

<<

<< Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


Let's just change people's words around and see if nobody notices

Nobody ever said that they support drug use at school and in the work place. They feel that if someone wants to do something in THEIR OWN FREE TIME and it doesn't affect their performance, it should be nobody's business but their own >>



Can you name a few drugs that don't affect performance? >>


weed and alcohol(if your not drinking daily)
These are the two drugs that I have personal exerience with, so they are the only drugs that I know don't affect your performance. I don't beleive any of the sh!t that the government puts out about drugs and their effects.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Yes, get those stupid potheads.

 

[skull]

<< Thanks! There are some who believe that weed is the ONLY thing some kids are playing with. >>



Weed is definatly not the only drug kids do. I know this because I'm 16 and do plenty of drugs but I do fine in school and don't cause any trouble the only thing I've done is I got suspended for 3 days for smoking in the bathroom and I havn't done that since so why should I be kicked out?

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<< Yes, you are. >>


clever resonse....

answer the question:
Have you ever drank, smoked or done drugs? >>



I do drink a fine wine with meals once a week.

Smoking? No. That has always annoyed me.

Drugs. No. Life is too good to be altered by artificial stimulants.

 

[no0b]

I remember (sp?) my parents talking about H.S. where there was a open campus and the administration was less of an ass to you. Now the adminastration are A holes. To them if you wear a hat in school of course your in a gang so if you cant wear a hat to shool your not in a gang. (wth twisted logic is this) The supreme court ruled that you can wear anything to school just as long as it is nott distrupting the learning of others. This has left a HUGE loop hole they dont want you to wear coat's or for women really revealing clothing (they still do and I dont complain). However there was some bull dung in my step sister's HS where the admin. was bitching about girls wearing pajama's to school (maybe the least revealing of all clothes).
Now to my question did the schools get violent and the clamp down on security is a preventative measure; or did school become very high security and thus the schools became more violent because that violent part of school that would just ditch and now they cant and the students would be treated with respect?
I am leaning more towards to the latter because they treat us like prisoners from 8:00-3:20 it sucks we are harrased by a-holes asking what are you doing where are you going.
I'm sure if someone did an experiment of where the HS is open campus and lienent to the ditchers and the staff is less of an a hole they would find the school would be safer and a better learning enviroment.

 

[notfred]

Fxck no. Where do we live, nazi Germany? the USSR? How about we need certification and documentation to cross state borders, a federal ID to enter public buildings, 65mph governors on our cars, taps on all our phones, all email forwarded to the FBI.

You're a law abiding citizen, why would you care?

:|

 

<< Thanks! There are some who believe that weed is the ONLY thing some kids are playing with.

If they would turn back to page one and read the question. It does say, "drug testing", which covers a lot more than weed. >>


Most drugs you can do are out of your system MUCH faster then THC. Usually a few days to a week.

If a student has a real drug problem, it will show. And most likely they will not be participating in extra activities in the first place.
If they did have a real drug problem it would be more logical to try and assist them and ween them away with other things.

But instead mandatory drug testing will just mark them as BAD people. It will attempt to weed out and punish them.
Nothing positive comes of it.

 

[fatbaby]

while they're at it, why dont they search us for "pirated copies" of music/software? At my hs, you rarely see "legal" copies of stuff anymore...

Yes and listening to music may affect your learning experience

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Are you saying there is no drug problem in America? It's all our imagination?

Basically yes. I think the problem comes from the way we've criminalized drug users.

 

[Warthog912]

<< A local high school here sponsored a surprise lockdown. >>



This happens often @our school, which they never find anything. BUT the administrators use and ABUSE this power to this: They will get the K-9 unit to circle and circle a car of a known "bad" kid. Every now and then the dog will sit down, then they use this as evidence to open the car up to see what the kid had in his car. This is so pathetic, our administrators need to concentrate more on school, and less on getting people in trouble.

-Peace

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<<

<<

<< Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


Let's just change people's words around and see if nobody notices

Nobody ever said that they support drug use at school and in the work place. They feel that if someone wants to do something in THEIR OWN FREE TIME and it doesn't affect their performance, it should be nobody's business but their own >>



Can you name a few drugs that don't affect performance? >>


weed and alcohol( to some extent)
These are the two drugs that I have personal exerience with, so they are the only drugs that I know don't affect your performance. I don't beleive any of the sh!t that the government puts out about drugs and their effects. >>



Are you smoking and drinking now? It seems to be affecting your spelling.

I'm kidding of course.

Most government testing is done by an independent agency. I trust most of them.

 

[Mikelh]

<<

<< A local high school here sponsored a surprise lockdown. >>



This happens often @our school, which they never find anything. BUT the administrators use and ABUSE this power to this: They will get the K-9 unit to circle and circle a car of a known "bad" kid. Every now and then the dog will sit down, then they use this as evidence to open the car up to see what the kid had in his car. This is so pathetic, our administrators need to concentrate more on school, and less on getting people in trouble.

-Peace >>



Good for your school. However, at the I mentioned, it resulted in 16 arrests.

 

[tweakmm]

<<

<<

<<

<< Do you defend drug use at school and in the workplace? >>


Let's just change people's words around and see if nobody notices

Nobody ever said that they support drug use at school and in the work place. They feel that if someone wants to do something in THEIR OWN FREE TIME and it doesn't affect their performance, it should be nobody's business but their own >>



Can you name a few drugs that don't affect performance? >>


weed and alcohol( to some extent)
These are the two drugs that I have personal exerience with, so they are the only drugs that I know don't affect your performance. I don't beleive any of the sh!t that the government puts out about drugs and their effects. >>



Are you smoking and drinking now? It seems to be affecting your spelling.
I'm kidding of course.

Yeah, I've been a horrible speller my whole life...


Most government testing is done by an independent agency. I trust most of them.

You can make a study say whatever you want it to say...

 

[Vic]

<< Disrupting class and wreckless living is harmful to others. >>


Can you prove to me that all drug users disrupt class or live recklessly? Of course not. Is disrupting class already cause for disciplinary action in public schools? You bet it is. Now explain to me how mandatory drug testing would do anything to solve these problems in schools.



<< Pretentious fear. That won't happen. It's just your way of drifting from the subject of discussion. >>


NOT AT ALL. Mandatory drug testing gives the government a power they should not have. The ability to know everything medical about us. Everything about our health condition. Freedom is based on privacy and privacy is something it sounds like you would happily throw out the window. This tells me that you don't love freedom.



<<

<< AND mandatory drug testing violates the 4th Amendment. >>



It does? >>


It does. It would be an unlawful search not based on probable cause.



<< Mandatory drug testing exists in most responsible workplaces.

Home Depot even warns, "if you do drugs, don't apply here". They test. Makes sense to me! I haven't seen them prosecuted for violating any Amendments! Have you?

Michael >>


You have proven yourself to be a confused individual with no knowledge of the facts in this matter by using this example.
First, Home Depot and all those other employers are a private institutions, not government entities.
Second, their drug testing is not actually "mandatory." It is voluntarily. If you don't want to take the drug test, then you simply don't get the job, simple as that. You cannot be sued or go to jail for failing or refusing a drug test at Home Depot. If the government actually mandated drug testing, as is suggested here, then actual criminal penalties could result for failing or refusing a drug test. Either that, or not being allowed an education, which would be just as bad. Now that is mandatory and that is what is being discussed here.
On top of that, the 4th Amendment is not something that any private entity is capable of violating, because it only constrains the powers of the government.
Allow me to enlighten your obviously uneducated (but obscenely pompous) self.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
My advice to you, Mike, is to concentrate less on how cool you are that you don't use drugs (with some false sense of security that it somehow makes you superior) and concentrate more on your education.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Reading this thread is like watching the lunatics trying to decide how to run the asylum. Let me run a hypothetical past you.
1. You do random drug testing just like the military. Everbody's eligible, students and faculty. I've pissed three days in a row and gone 6 months without.
2. You "pop positive" you get counseling or maybe some drug awareness classes. Not a police record, but a record is kept at school. At tis point in the military you would probably get discharged
3. Second time you "pop positive" you get suspended. You would also be evaluated for dependency and receive treatment if necessary.
4. Third time you are expelled.

I'm sure none of you children like this plan. It works. Look at how much drug use there is in the military. Almost none. Come up with a better one to alleviate the drug problem. I don't consider legalizing drugs fixing the problem.

 

<< Come up with a better one to alleviate the drug problem. I don't consider legalizing drugs fixing the problem. >>


What problem?

I think obesity is a problem, mabey mandatory diet and exercise?

 

[thomsbrain]

In my experience, teen drug use is as follows: The stupid people take drugs, because they're too dumb to be afraid of them. The smart people don't, because they're smart enough/nerdy enough to avoid them. And the truly smart people (the people who are bored in honors classes) take drugs because they're smart enough not to be afraid of them.