Exploring ATI Image Quality Optimizations by Guru3D

[SirPauly]

So yet another thread and another article that just show that AMD did a damn good job with their optimization that it is only visible in super-zoomed bloomified screenshots?

Well I guess with all the console ports this might be an issue - god they love bloom.

Time to stop recommending nVidia to friends/family/customers :biggrin:

Actually, todays anisotropy doesn't go far enough for many individuals and many worse case areas and why the IHV's offer super-sampled flexibility.

 

[ronnn]

What I need to know is, why are you drawing attention away from the huge thing on the road that isn't circled? And toward tiny text on a flapping waving banner? And some girders that actually look clearer and less blurred on the left side than the right? And, which is going to give you a headache when moving.

Please show me the video that will give me the headache, with a comparison of the perfect nvidia video that will not. I know that you would not just make stuff up.

Edit: I am hoping that you were referring to the suggestion that Nvidia has lower lod levels, which are less likely to have texture crawl, but also give a slightly less sharp picture. A video that actually can show this would interest me.

 

[Keysplayr]

Please show me the video that will give me the headache, with a comparison of the perfect nvidia video that will not. I know that you would not just make stuff up.

Edit: I am hoping that you were referring to the suggestion that Nvidia has lower lod levels, which are less likely to have texture crawl, but also give a slightly less sharp picture. A video that actually can show this would interest me.

Oh give me a break ronnn. I meant headache as in an "annoyance" not in an actual headache. I forgot to micromanage my text so forgive me.

 

[ronnn]

Oh give me a break ronnn. I meant headache as in an "annoyance" not in an actual headache. I forgot to micromanage my text so forgive me.

Ok how about the video that shows the annoyance.

 

[Skurge]

Ok how about the video that shows the annoyance.

I have the game. I hadn't noticed it until someone else on the Forum pointed it our. It is there, it looks almost like a bow wave in front of the car. Its a Minor issue IMO as its only in about 10% of the game. A lower LOD on the other hand would effect every single part of the game all the time.

 

[arredondo]

I'm using RadeonPro with my 6870 10.10d drivers and it doesn't have the 'High Quality', 'Quality' and 'Performance' option. Instead it has Disabled, Standard and Advanced with check boxes for enabling Trilinear and anisotropic optimization.

What do I setup to get the Performance option of CCC? Advance with both optimizations checked? I don't use crossfire and don't see any significant differences in those shots, so I want max frame rate.

 

[happy medium]

disabled would be the fastest.

 

[Skurge]

I'm using RadeonPro with my 6870 10.10d drivers and it doesn't have the 'High Quality', 'Quality' and 'Performance' option. Instead it has Disabled, Standard and Advanced with check boxes for enabling Trilinear and anisotropic optimization.

What do I setup to get the Performance option of CCC? Advance with both optimizations checked? I don't use crossfire and don't see any significant differences in those shots, so I want max frame rate.

Advanced with both options checked.

Also just played the game a few mins ago. I remember why I didn't notice it. I picked 3 random tracks and non of them included that texture that has the issue. Another thing is the game is so bloody fast you look much further ahead and not right in front of the car. That would also show up the LOD issue or "cheat" that nV have. Im not making all this up. Anybody else with the game would agree with me.

 

[railven]

Advanced with both options checked.

Also just played the game a few mins ago. I remember why I didn't notice it. I picked 3 random tracks and non of them included that texture that has the issue. Another thing is the game is so bloody fast you look much further ahead and not right in front of the car. That would also show up the LOD issue or "cheat" that nV have. Im not making all this up. Anybody else with the game would agree with me.

Agree that I didn't see the AF issue, can't confirm the NV claim.

I don't have Trackmania installed on the GeForce system. Maybe I'll do that and see for myself.

Gaming on a 52" HDTV 1080p about 7-8 feet away, I've never noticed the AF issues on my games, then again I'm not zooming in and increasing the gamma.

 

[railven]

disabled would be the fastest.

Wouldn't that turn off all the optimizations and give you higher IQ at the expensve of frame rate?

 

[Skurge]

Agree that I didn't see the AF issue, can't confirm the NV claim.

I don't have Trackmania installed on the GeForce system. Maybe I'll do that and see for myself.

Gaming on a 52" HDTV 1080p about 7-8 feet away, I've never noticed the AF issues on my games, then again I'm not zooming in and increasing the gamma.

Also AMDs AF on the 6800 series is Superior to nV's at the highest quality. So you get the option of higher framerates or better IQ.

The only problem I thing anybody can legitimately have is saying that AMD added it in an underhanded way, but I don't see any of them complaining about what nV did with HawX2, I think it was the right thing to do on their part but they didn't announce it until someone called them out for it.

nV's issue is also in a new game so you could have more ammo for them.

 

[happy medium]

Wouldn't that turn off all the optimizations and give you higher IQ at the expensve of frame rate?

I was thinking the exact opposite. :\

 

[tannat]

Wouldn't that turn off all the optimizations and give you higher IQ at the expensve of frame rate?

Yes. If you don't want the optimizations you just turn them off. Quite neat.

Now, back to the fud, insults and the hairsplitting. please.

 

[arredondo]

OK, there are two camps saying two different things.

 

[Skurge]

OK, there are two camps saying two different things.

Happy made a mistake.

 

[Mistwalker]

OK, there are two camps saying two different things.

Though I can't tell you how to exactly match the old "Performance" setting I can tell you that:

Trilinear Filtering will increase image quality with a very small decrease in performance. You want to leave this unchecked if FPS is your only goal, but most will tell you the benefits outweigh the slight penalty.

Anisotropic Optimization will increase performance for a very slight decrease in image quality. The IQ difference is, as argued in this thread, largely unnoticeable. In any case since your object is pure speed, check this.

Sadly I don't have my ATI card installed so can't be 100% sure this is what you're looking for, but my recommendation: choose Advanced and check ASO.

 

[MrK6]

So I saw these posts and thought they were interesting. I don't know why these sites love Trackmania, but it seems that AMD does have much sharper filtering than NVIDIA:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1499768&postcount=176
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036521622&postcount=17
My guess is there's a problem with their filtering algorithm in some older games and how it handles low res/repeat textures. However, since it doesn't seem to be a problem in new games, I'll definitely take the superior image quality/sharpness. :thumbsup:

 

[arredondo]

Though I can't tell you how to exactly match the old "Performance" setting I can tell you that:

Trilinear Filtering will increase image quality with a very small decrease in performance. You want to leave this unchecked if FPS is your only goal, but most will tell you the benefits outweigh the slight penalty.

Anisotropic Optimization will increase performance for a very slight decrease in image quality. The IQ difference is, as argued in this thread, largely unnoticeable. In any case since your object is pure speed, check this.

Sadly I don't have my ATI card installed so can't be 100% sure this is what you're looking for, but my recommendation: choose Advanced and check ASO.

Thank you, but one thing I should mention may change one of your recommendations. The RadeonPro check box for Trilinear isn't '...Filtering' but '...Optimization'. Perhaps like ASO it is an increase in FPS for a slight IQ degradation?

 

[Skurge]

So I saw these posts and thought they were interesting. I don't know why these sites love Trackmania, but it seems that AMD does have much sharper filtering than NVIDIA:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1499768&postcount=176
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036521622&postcount=17
My guess is there's a problem with their filtering algorithm in some older games and how it handles low res/repeat textures. However, since it doesn't seem to be a problem in new games, I'll definitely take the superior image quality/sharpness. :thumbsup:

Well, that settles it then. I won't be reading any thread about this in the future.

 

[tannat]

So I saw these posts and thought they were interesting. I don't know why these sites love Trackmania, but it seems that AMD does have much sharper filtering than NVIDIA:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1499768&postcount=176
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036521622&postcount=17
My guess is there's a problem with their filtering algorithm in some older games and how it handles low res/repeat textures. However, since it doesn't seem to be a problem in new games, I'll definitely take the superior image quality/sharpness. :thumbsup:

For me it looks like detail is higher and better on the Amd pic. I believe the texture quality of the road was used to show less IQ on the Ati card, but honestly I don't know if I can see any significant +/- difference there.

 

[Mistwalker]

Thank you, but one thing I should mention may change one of your recommendations. The RadeonPro check box for Trilinear isn't '...Filtering' but '...Optimization'. Perhaps like ASO it is an increase in FPS for a slight IQ degradation?

Whoops, right you are, and like ASO it should also be turned on for a boost in performance at a near-zero loss in visual quality.

So, Skurge was right: Advanced, check both, game away!

 

[Keysplayr]

Ok how about the video that shows the annoyance.

I think you can use your imagination on this one.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

So I saw these posts and thought they were interesting. I don't know why these sites love Trackmania, but it seems that AMD does have much sharper filtering than NVIDIA:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1499768&postcount=176
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036521622&postcount=17
My guess is there's a problem with their filtering algorithm in some older games and how it handles low res/repeat textures. However, since it doesn't seem to be a problem in new games, I'll definitely take the superior image quality/sharpness. :thumbsup:

Whoops thread backfire! LOL

 

[MrK6]

Well, that settles it then. I won't be reading any thread about this in the future.

Unless anyone has proof to the otherwise, I think that pretty much settles it that AMD has superior image quality (since Trackmania was used as the end-all determining game before, I guess I can use it now ).

For me it looks like detail is higher and better on the Amd pic. I believe the texture quality of the road was used to show less IQ on the Ati card, but honestly I don't know if I can see any significant +/- difference there.

I think the road was used to show that AMD's filtering of textures as you look away from the camera has a more prominent change or "line" that can be seen in some older games or on really low res textures. Like I said though, I haven't seen it in any new games nor has there been any evidence to show otherwise, so it seems like a non issue in newer games, especially since it's been fixed in the 6xxx series and onward.

I think you can use your imagination on this one.

It would seem he'd have to since AMD's IQ is quite clearly superior here.

 

[Teizo]

Whoops thread backfire! LOL

Not really. AMD enabled an optimization by default that before was disabled. There is virtually no differeince in IQ with it enabled, just the same as when Nvidia has their ASO enabled, but the difference is you get a nice performance boost with it enabled. That is all well and good until you factor in what happened at the last set of reviews at the last card launch.

It has been stated over and over again, to which some chose to deliberately ignore, or just for some reason fail to understand, that the optimization was not there before with 10.9 with the 5XXX AMD cards, and that this approach was the agreed upon stance between AMD and Nvidia when sending samples out to review, and that the issue at hand was that the optimization was added in Cat 10.10 without reference nor a way to disable (uncheck) it which meant that when the 68XX series cards were launched they had a peformance optimization (ASO) set at default that Nvidia didn't, which went against the pre-set agreement, so the performance review results were inaccurate by those reviewers who left their driver settings at default. Of course Nvidia is going to be a bit upset by this because AMD did not acheive their fps lead (albeit slight) on equal grounds, and reviews equal lots of potential sales because of the review results, and the current trend atm is a complete obsession over fps. And, to add, review sites that caught on to this changed the driver settings to make the optimizations equal in each driver and when that happened, gave a different take on the outcome (look at X-Bit Labs, for instance).

If AMD wants to have an ASO optimization for it users, that is completely at their discretion (after all Nvidia has the same one too for their users if they chose to enable it). All that was and is being asked though by Nvidia, and should be being asked by reviewers as well , is that the ASO be disabled by default the same as it is with Nvidia, which was the prior pre-agreed upon approach, which is how it was with 10.9 and all other prior Cat's, so that objective, fair, comparisons between pefromance can be measured when cards go out for review.

Hilbert at Guru3D, whose reputation in the community is rock solid, agrees that it is there, and even though it hard to see (just the same as when NV has their ASO enabled) and doesn't degrade IQ, it does make giving a proper, objective, comparitive review impossible when driver defaults are loaded. Thus AMD needs to disable the ASO and go back how they were before with Cat 10.9., andd that is how it should be, and the community should demand it as well so as to maintain the integrity of the reviews else no one will be able to look at a review and trust what they are looking at. That is, no one who cares about objectivity that is. Unfortunately these discussions always get mired in the hands of Atidiots and Nvidiots and the information always gets misconstrued.