Experts say joblessness not due to skills gap

[OverVolt]

To be fair, they created a supply chain to mitigate other things, not just cost. Companies make mistakes no doubt, but typically they make more right than wrong. If a company did more wrong than right, they should go bankrupt. If that dont thats a separate issue.

It only takes 1 company to make the right decision to make the others follow.

So like for example they threatened to "take their toys and play elsewhere" which would've been suicide for Boeing but they don't seem to care and think they can just hire inexperienced people to do the same quality work.

Then they spill fuselages into the bottom of a river. I think you're overestimating the definition of "created a supply chain"

They moved a factory to North Carolina for tax breaks and because it has lax workers rights and this is the result: http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2023913654_boeing787productionxml.html

According to employees, when mechanics removed the cradles that held the rear fuselage in place on Dreamliner No. 214 — destined for Royal Jordanian Airways — nearly 100 improperly installed fasteners clattered to the factory floor.

After landing some good contracts Boeing felt it was in a good enough position to twist the arm the Machinist Union: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/b...highlights-rift-in-machinists-union.html?_r=0

So after 2008 you could save money without sacrificing quality with cuts to excess workers or benefits and companies had been doing this for years. Cutting is all they know now. Except we are beyond the point where cuts yield a benefit and instead they are just screwing up and costing themselves more money. A couple companies are doing this, like Walmart never having enough cashiers. Or Mcdonalds constantly playing with its menu now to save money, etc. I'm sure on the manufacturing end its likely happening with GM and such we just don't hear about it, although I guess the recalls are telling.

I'd bet they were already behind on production considering the constant mishaps and the moved factories not able to meet quality/quantity Boeing was expecting. Guess thats what happens when you try and cheap out on aeronautics manufacturing. This is something that was bound to happen since cutting is all companies know how to do anymore. Cutting the excess in 2008 was the obvious thing to do but there is such a thing as cutting too much and causing screwups that cost you more money in the long run.

 

[piasabird]

Drug testing can not be trusted that much. My mom went to a rehab nursing facility after getting out of the hospital and then later they told medicare she tested positive for MJ. You cant trust none of these fools. These kinds of tests often get contaminated or get false positives.

 

[OverVolt]

The reason the US has the worlds largest economy is not because we are isolationist. China has 4.5X the population and the US has an economy that is almost twice as big. The reason the US is so far ahead is because we are the center of innovation. The top of everything used to flock to the US because it was the place you wanted to be to do anything. Imagine a world where we did not let in German physics to save American Jobs.

So Pfizer who pioneered Penicillin and was a leader in antibiotics for 70 years had cut their antibiotics R&D to zero meanwhile antibiotic resistance keeps growing as a threat and no one is spending R&D on solutions.

NASA is a former shell of itself. We 100% rely on Russia for space travel now.

Although the United States operates the International Space Station, it is dependent on Russia to get astronauts there. When the United States retired the space shuttle, it left NASA with no way to get astronauts to the space station. So it inked a contract with Russia to provide rides to the Space Station, which is 240 miles above Earth.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-russia-is-getting-a-457-9m-check-from-nasa/

So maybe 10 years ago.

 

[realibrad]

So Pfizer who pioneered Penicillin and was a leader in antibiotics for 70 years had cut their antibiotics R&D to zero meanwhile antibiotic resistance keeps growing as a threat and no one is spending R&D on solutions.

NASA is a former shell of itself. We 100% rely on Russia for space travel now.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-russia-is-getting-a-457-9m-check-from-nasa/

So maybe 10 years ago.

I'm going to respond to this post but answer both.

If Boeing wants to gamble on their success, thats on them. Boeing as a company will make bad choices and good ones. Again, the market will kill off anyone who does not do more good than bad, unless propped up by government. A company that tries to excessively cut costs beyond the point of reason, will get bitten and lose money. I just dont think its productive for the burden to be on anyone other than Boeing to work out what is needed to make things more efficient. If the company cannot realize that its cutting costs in one area, but increasing them in another, it should suffer, first with lower profits and eventually if they dont learn, death of the company.

As for NASA and the US depending on Russia. Don't overlook SpaceX. It currently is fighting to innovate and become the go to for the US. Its already sending up supplies and eventually will do more. Its also doing its business at a much much lower cost than even Russia. Its also an American company, with a foreigner who started it. SpaceX will become the industry leader and do things far more cheaply than ever before. This will mean we can do more, or spend less or both which is nothing but good.

As for antibiotics, that has more to do with what people want to buy. People just are not as worried about antibiotics and so there is not enough demand for the R&D. We probably agree that its an issue, but people dont want it until it becomes a problem. Its not the fault of the company, its the fault of the consumer not establishing demand.

 

[Zaap]

Then they spill fuselages into the bottom of a river. I think you're overestimating the definition of "created a supply chain"

Boeing is responsible for a train derailment, not BNSF?
How does that work?

Just the most casual search and I can find industrial accidents at Boeing in Washington State or anywhere they have a factory or do business.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20120713/BIZ/707149997

http://myeverettnews.com/2011/12/12...-industrial-accident-at-everett-boeing-plant/

http://www.counton2.com/story/21829598/worker-at-boeing-plant-dies-from-injuries-sustanined-in-fall

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990611&slug=2965919

Gee, it's almost as if large scale manufacturing was dangerous work.

 

[OverVolt]

Boeing is responsible for a train derailment, not BNSF?
How does that work?

Just the most casual search and I can find industrial accidents at Boeing in Washington State or anywhere they have a factory or do business.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20120713/BIZ/707149997

http://myeverettnews.com/2011/12/12...-industrial-accident-at-everett-boeing-plant/

http://www.counton2.com/story/21829598/worker-at-boeing-plant-dies-from-injuries-sustanined-in-fall

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990611&slug=2965919

Gee, it's almost as if large scale manufacturing was dangerous work.

Because they spread their factories around increasing the risk something goes wrong. They didn't take risk into their decision to create this widespread just in time manufacturing system, they just went oh boy labor is cheaper in North Carolina lets move there.


I'd guess that less experienced people are more likely to get injured and become a workmans comp case whoops there goes the bottom line etc. I think its common sense but whatever. Everyone is trying to do things so cheaply now I'd imagine the risk of a derailment or truck crash in transit is higher than in the past.

 

[Zaap]

Because they spread their factories around increasing the risk something goes wrong. They didn't take risk into their decision to create this widespread just in time manufacturing system, they just went oh boy labor is cheaper in North Carolina lets move there.


I'd guess that less experienced people are more likely to get injured and become a workmans comp case whoops there goes the bottom line etc. I think its common sense but whatever. Everyone is trying to do things so cheaply now I'd imagine the risk of a derailment or truck crash in transit is higher than in the past.

I'm sure Boeing may be cutting costs, but I was specifically referring to blaming them as if they are running a railroad.

Not sure what timeline you're basing this on,.but Boeing shipping plane parts all over the country doesn't seem to be anything new. Again, 2 seconds of Googling and I find all sorts of info that airplane parts are *always* shipped by rail- pretty much always have been since WWII. It's apparently the only way to move parts that big. And no apparently fully assembling every plane and flying it somewhere is probably about as cost effective as individually driving ever car to dealers would be vs. trains/car-carriers.

Here's some aviation forum specific to the 737 fuselages:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2334997/

Relevant quote from there:

EVERY 737 fuselage ever built has been shipped by rail from Wichita, KS to Seattle, WA. This is about a 1,200 mile trip.

[Edited 2005-09-18 22:31:43]


An image from 11 years ago:

From this page: http://www.nwownrailfan.com/archives/features/0204camp.html

Although completed fuselages moving by rail are a relatively recent phenomonon, Boeing has been recieving some of the biggest loads going for years. Throughout the 1960s and 70s large "Boeing Skybox" cars moved up the Oregon Trunk line from California. These enclosed cars contained subassemblies for 747 series aircraft that were made by the Convair Corporation under contract.

When Convair was purchased by McDonnell-Douglas production moved to Witchata, Kansas. Later still, Boeing bought out McDonnell-Douglas, and shifted part of the 737 line to the Witchita plant. Today the large Skybox cars can still be seen, though they have shed their colorful yellow coats for a drab mineral brown. The Skybox cars are usually seen in the form of beveled cowlings mounted on standard 60' flat cars.

So gee, seems like making airplane parts under contract in different parts of the country and shipping via rail is nothing the least bit new.

 

[Strk]

As for antibiotics, that has more to do with what people want to buy. People just are not as worried about antibiotics and so there is not enough demand for the R&D. We probably agree that its an issue, but people dont want it until it becomes a problem. Its not the fault of the company, its the fault of the consumer not establishing demand.

That makes no sense.

 

[realibrad]

That makes no sense.

You have to give me more than that. Unless you don't understand supply and demand.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Drug testing can not be trusted that much. My mom went to a rehab nursing facility after getting out of the hospital and then later they told medicare she tested positive for MJ. You cant trust none of these fools. These kinds of tests often get contaminated or get false positives.

Most refineries and chemical plants throughout the US use an instant 5 panel DOT test. Person being tested is provided a cup and hand cleaner from a sealed test box. Person being tested must verify that the urine being tested belongs to them (initials the drug test form verifying such), new sealed test card is opened (initials the drug test form verifying such), and the urine is then tested in front of the person. If there's any contamination it's will be from the person being tested as the tester never comes in contact with the urine or portion of the test card that is immersed in the urine.

http://www.uritoxmedicaltesting.com/dip-5.html

 

[OverVolt]

Mehhh I'd trust the railroad of the 1970's more than today. Yet alone the people at Boeing who loaded them etc. Its not like some critical link of the whole argument and I honestly don't care (but appreciate the info). Guess I've made up my mind that everything today is done half-assed.

 

[Zaap]

Guess I've made up my mind that everything today is done half-assed.

This dovetails with a question I often ask myself. If we're more and more a society that does things half-assed or (worst case) doesn't know how to do things at all (and to me it really doesn't matter what state or region were talking about with that as I mean as a nation in its entireity) then why is it we automatically assume we still deserve a guarantee of the same middle class existence that previous generations had?

(And of course that question in itself gets complicated when its pointed out that everything wasn't all roses for previous generations either, and that middle.class expectations were many times far lesser in the past than what people expect now). But people backed up talk with serious skills and talents that built the country we live in.

All of this is also contrasted to the fact that in the past, litterally billions of potential competitors took themselves out of the game by going full-retard on the world war/communism/cultural revolution/cold war/civil war crazy-train. But increasingly, billions more people are coming out of that and joining the game. Competition in this world is feirce and only getting feircer. There is no more just skating by on pure luck of geography.

Does a culture that eventually can't figure out how to build an airplane and ship it from point a to point b successfully (or pick any example) deserve automattic first place in the que for "top of the world" economic status? If so, I'm wondering exactly why.