Existence of the "historical Jesus" increasingly questioned by scholars

[JEDIYoda]

This. Take any New Testament course in college and this will be one of the first things you learn. You would also learn that only a handful of Paul's letter were actually written by Paul.

Most people only know of Christianity through the church that they go to. Unfortunately, that is so heavily skewed that they really don't learn anything about it.

Not true.....you cannot generalize and pick and choose...each college course is different and quite a few go against what you are claiming to be the norm....

 

[doubledeluxe]

We have known that the four gospels weren't written by them for a very long time. At least 1800 years. That was when they were named since calling them the 'Anonymous Gospels' just didn't ring well with the church.

 

[JEDIYoda]

:thumbsup:

The true evil here are the people who wish to destroy the teachings of Christ.

:thumbsup: Texas despite other things you are very correct in what you said!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

We have known that the four gospels weren't written by them for a very long time. At least 1800 years. That was when they were named since calling them the 'Anonymous Gospels' just didn't ring well with the church.

so why are those books still attributed to them??

We is pretty broad.....

 

[Cozarkian]

Two witnesses are enough to prove just about any court case.

But for some reason you reject that idea when it comes to Christ?

First, you need two credible witnesses. Second, those witnesses need to outweigh the testimony (or lack of) testimony from other credible sources.

If for example, two people known to advocate that aliens exist said they saw an alien ship in Times Square on January 1, 2014, would you expect a court to find that sufficient proof there was an alien ship? I wouldn't, because if there had been an alien ship, I would expect there to be substantially more people saying they saw it, including many people with no prior ties to claims that aliens exist.

 

[alkemyst]

Honestly you should stop posting. You're wasting everyone's time with your ignorance.

It's better to ignore them, they are our religious trolls. They probably both attend church every Sunday.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I will never understand your devotion to being wrong. Don't think I've seen many sentences posted here that can approach the above in pungency of bullshit.

Really, that is one hell of scathing comment on your own intelligence there. Unsurprisingly, you don't seem to be familiar with the concept of "proof" at all here, and that's on top of apparently being quite unaware of why Josephus isn't considered an authority on anything.


Another subject TH doesn't know shit about, I mean really, what are the odds?


The dogma and histrionics of mainstream christianity will continue to get holes torn through it - better stock up on the Boudreaux's guys.

Actually Texas is not wrong! It is you who needs to prove him wrong...oh I for got an Atheist cannot disprove there is no God...lolol

 

[JEDIYoda]

First, you need to credible witnesses. Second, those witnesses need to outweigh the testimony (or lack of) testimony from other credible sources.

If for example, two people known to advocate that aliens exist said they saw an alien ship in Times Square on January 1, 2014, would you expect a court to find that sufficient proof there was an alien ship? I wouldn't, because if there had been an alien ship, I would expect there to be substantially more people saying they saw it, including many people with no prior ties to claims that aliens exist.

Me thinks even if there was conclusive eye witness proof of these things it would not matter to you! You are speaking like a closed minded Atheist who asks believers to prove that God exists, why ? Because you cannot prove that God does not exist...plain and simple....

 

[doubledeluxe]

Jedi prove there are no leprechauns.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Lewis is using a debate technique that is fairly common in the proselytizing world. Set up the target to either accept the divinity of Jesus or to say something bad about Jesus who the target knows is admired by almost everybody in our culture. The demand to make this choice should be dismissed out of hand as cheap debate gimmickry.

so is what you just said -- that is an Atheist talking point....

 

[Texashiker]

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Texas despite other things you are very correct in what you said!!

Thank you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If there is a heaven and hell, good and evil, how can we tell the difference?

All we have to do is look at the teachings of Christ.

Anyone who tries to destroy Christ also tries to destroy his teachings.

Those who would destroy the teachings of Christ are evil. Christ taught love, compassion, and mercy. What are the opposite of those? Hate, greed, lust.

If you destroy good you are left with evil.

There is no debate on whether or not Christ existed. There is non-biblical proof he did.

The real debate is if evil will overcome good. As long as the teachings of Christ exist there is still hope for humanity. There is hope that we can better ourselves through service, kindness, mercy and compassion.

 

[alkemyst]

so why are those books still attributed to them??

We is pretty broad.....

It's simply traditional.

The books were always known to be written by anonymous sources and there is debate that all four of the first books John, Luke, Matthew, and Mark were all written by the same person.

This is all simple factual history and should not be part of the debate here unless one is truly ignorant to this debate (and thus should be ignored) or in fact trolling/playing the devil's advocate.

Heck people still debate that the Old Testament is the basis for the Torah and Koran/Quran. It's really all the same basic story with slightly different players/timelines of those players.

 

[alkemyst]

Actually Texas is not wrong! It is you who needs to prove him wrong...oh I for got an Atheist cannot disprove there is no God...lolol

Technically in science and almost everything proving someone wrong doesn't prove you are right.

 

[Texashiker]

Technically in science

We are not using science here. Science means you can replicate a theory.

We are using a legal system of calling witnesses.

We have witnesses, reliable witnesses, who said Jesus existed.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Me thinks even if there was conclusive eye witness proof of these things it would not matter to you! You are speaking like a closed minded Atheist who asks believers to prove that God exists, why ? Because you cannot prove that God does not exist...plain and simple....

The faithful like to think that is somehow an argument in their favor, it is not. I cannot prove god doesn't exist, and I have no need to because I am not making any claims of existence one way or another. You, the believers, are however.

But by claiming I cannot prove god doesn't exist, you have to realize that extends to every other deity from every other religion, literally thousands of them, and you cannot prove that they don't exist either. Nor can you prove that a higher power who just has not made itself know to us exists. When you look at it through that lens, christianity has very poor liklihood of being real, the odds are very against it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It is "magic" when people from other religions or sects preach it, but "miracles" when your own religion does it.

another cop out...lol

 

[Cozarkian]

To anyone, parting the sea would be an extraordinary event. Yet there is no evidence from Egypt that the exodus ever occurred, no writings mention this impressive and magical feat.

There was a fascinating History channel show I saw called something like "Battles of the Bible" which provided a mundane explanation for many of the magical events of the Old Testament by explaining a plausible usage for many of the terms and stories used in the bible.

For example, the Reed Sea was a marshland subject to heavy tides. Moses set fires at night to blind his pursuers while he withdrew during low tide across the Reed Sea. As dawn broke and the Egyptians saw the retreat, they gave chase, but the tides were coming back in, making the Reed Sea impassable. To the uneducated who didn't understand tides, that could very well seem like Moses had parted the sea before them and caused it to flow back in and drown their enemies behind them.

Another example was the battle of Jericho. "Tearing down the walls" (or crumbling the walls - I don't remember the exact biblical test) is a synonym for breaching the gates. Thus, the show theorized that Joshua had an inside spy (if I recall, they pointed out some other biblical passage indicating it was a whore). When he marched his men around the walls three times, the purpose was to distract the defenders from noticing a small group of men climbing a rope provided by the inside traitor. The trumpets at the end of the third loop was the signal for the inside soldiers to attack the guards and throw open the gates.

 

[xBiffx]

Jedi prove there are no leprechauns.

Impossible because you can't prove a negative.

You can only prove that there are leprechauns. Just sayin...

 

[JEDIYoda]

That sounds like Christians when scientific proof is presented to refute the accounts in the Bible.

round and round we go....why does there need to be proof to back up or proof to disprove?? You believe what you will and I will believe what I will and we will not worry about your soul and I will be confident in my beliefs...... let me guess Atheism is a Religion now...did you not know??

 

[JEDIYoda]

I harbor no grudges against anyone for being religious, unless they want to force their belief system on others.

another cop out....then why the need to disprove?? You go your way, others will go there way...

 

[JEDIYoda]

It's threads like this where you truly see the insanity and ridiculousness of organized religion.

Believe in god all you want. Have faith. But believing and worshiping a fairy take story us nothing less than mental illness.

Do you dumbasses still believe in Santa too?

Butt hurt much???

 

[doubledeluxe]

another cop out...lol

Jedi prove there are no unicorns.

 

[fskimospy]

Impossible because you can't prove a negative.

You can only prove that there are leprechauns. Just sayin...

That's his whole point.

 

[JEDIYoda]

You really need to understand what the word means before you start crying about others not indulging you in your perception of it. Your speculation means nothing.

I'm actually all for people substantiating their positions with logic and fact, hardly my fault you put them out of reach by establishing your conclusion and working backwards to justify it. If you can support your belief with actual data and facts, and without resorting to circular reasoning or hilarious contradictions and falsehoods, then by all means, lets see it.

yeah, go ahead and believe we will drink your koolaid....

 

[SlowSpyder]

There was a fascinating History channel show I saw called something like "Battles of the Bible" which provided a mundane explanation for many of the magical events of the Old Testament by explaining a plausible usage for many of the terms and stories used in the bible.

For example, the Reed Sea was a marshland subject to heavy tides. Moses set fires at night to blind his pursuers while he withdrew during low tide across the Reed Sea. As dawn broke and the Egyptians saw the retreat, they gave chase, but the tides were coming back in, making the Reed Sea impassable. To the uneducated who didn't understand tides, that could very well seem like Moses had parted the sea before them and caused it to flow back in and drown their enemies behind them.

Another example was the battle of Jericho. "Tearing down the walls" (or crumbling the walls - I don't remember the exact biblical test) is a synonym for breaching the gates. Thus, the show theorized that Joshua had an inside spy (if I recall, they pointed out some other biblical passage indicating it was a whore). When he marched his men around the walls three times, the purpose was to distract the defenders from noticing a small group of men climbing a rope provided by the inside traitor. The trumpets at the end of the third loop was the signal for the inside soldiers to attack the guards and throw open the gates.

I've thought about this as well. Not those specific stories, but about some of the 'miracles' in the bible. Jesus may very well have existed, but I wonder if his miraculous stories (and other stories in the bible) is more David Blaine than son of god.