Exercise bikes / Choices / Concept2 Rower

[Viper GTS]

The 'fan' on the rower doesn't direct much air at you at all. You will want a fan if not more than one.

I have one of these that I like pretty well:

CBreeze

Rowing Machine accessories, c breeze, cbreeze, Concept2 accessories, Concept2 accessory, Rowing fan

www.ps-sport.net

That plus a large fan at my back is enough generally but I'm also in a <70 degree basement. Doing it at 78 ambient would suck without significant airflow.

Viper GTS

 

[Scarpozzi]

The 'fan' on the rower doesn't direct much air at you at all. You will want a fan if not more than one.

I have one of these that I like pretty well:

CBreeze

Rowing Machine accessories, c breeze, cbreeze, Concept2 accessories, Concept2 accessory, Rowing fan

www.ps-sport.net

That plus a large fan at my back is enough generally but I'm also in a <70 degree basement. Doing it at 78 ambient would suck without significant airflow.

Viper GTS

We used to do it in a room with heaters blowing on us... I always felt like any moving air was better than nothing...even if it was hot.

 

[Muse]

I just completed Session #2 on my Model D. Whole different story. Wearing same clothes, changed Intensity to No. 4. Strategy was to have maximum chain retraction and extension, basically, establishing a rhythm.

10:00 (i.e. ten minutes exactly)
1413 m
3:34 min./500m average

Sound good? It felt decent! No issues, physically. Will skate this afternoon.

 

[Muse]

The 'fan' on the rower doesn't direct much air at you at all. You will want a fan if not more than one.

I have one of these that I like pretty well:

CBreeze

Rowing Machine accessories, c breeze, cbreeze, Concept2 accessories, Concept2 accessory, Rowing fan

www.ps-sport.net

That plus a large fan at my back is enough generally but I'm also in a <70 degree basement. Doing it at 78 ambient would suck without significant airflow.

Viper GTS

Yeah, 78F is a lot. I have been trying to go in there when it isn't above maybe 72F. The box fan is real big (and loud!). I have been using it with the bike trainer and isolating earbuds, Etymotic Research, listening usually to audio of nature videos on 43" 4K TCL Roku monitor/TV. The box fan pointing right at me. Fan is about 22" wide, square, not oscillating. Has 3 settings, I have had it on high. By November it will be cooler. In winter, maybe won't need fan at all. The house doesn't have central heating.

 

[Muse]

You don't need any space in front of the rower, but yes leave yourself a good few feet behind the rower because you should be slightly laying back into it for full extension on your pull.

As many others have said, focus on maintaining your SPM in the 18-22 range, while decreasing your 500m split time or increasing your watts. This will help you emphasize pushing with your legs and getting the best drive possible, rather than just rowing faster and tiring yourself out.

I easily can get myself to 180 HR on the concept2 with a hard sprint, or can maintain around 130 with a good consistent 2:00/500m pace.

At your age and experience, the quoted 2:30 / 500m pace is a good target, and may even be challenging to hit there. That would be equivalent to around 600-700 cal/hr if you set it to calories.

The Myworkouts App on my Android phone has been telling me my ~38 minute skates are burning around 500 kcal.

I know nothing about the Model D's PM5 device other than what I just saw. I didn't go under around 3:24/500m IIRC, could have tried harder, was mostly trying to get a feeling of really working at it and developing a sense of form, which was tricky but not bad. I thought the idea might be maximum retraction and extension of the chain without taking too much time. Maybe not the best mantra, but seemed to get the minutes/meters down.

 

[Viper GTS]

Don't focus too much on maxing the chain, over-doing it at either end of the stroke is bad.

Viper GTS

 

[mike8675309]

...
Those pictures of those muscled jocks straining on the Model D told me I wasn't doing it right, too! I'll read your posts above carefully. Maybe I'll get into the Concept2 and skate also before the rains come, doubling my intensities!
...

The muscled jocks are not straining on a rower for the first 50 calories, but on the last 50 calories of 3 rep set crossfit workout including other movements, you'll see people struggle for sure.

The 'fan' on the rower doesn't direct much air at you at all. You will want a fan if not more than one.

The stair stepper at my gym is right next to the rowers, and it always feels good when someone grabs the one next to the stairs and starts rowing. The fan essentially blows out the right side.

 

[deadlyapp]

I just completed Session #2 on my Model D. Whole different story. Wearing same clothes, changed Intensity to No. 4. Strategy was to have maximum chain retraction and extension, basically, establishing a rhythm.

10:00 (i.e. ten minutes exactly)
1413 m
3:34 min./500m average

Sound good? It felt decent! No issues, physically. Will skate this afternoon.

Maximum retraction and extension isn't really what you're looking for - without a video it's hard to say what you mean, but I imagine you laying down completely with the handle extended overhead, and then overextending your back on the retraction portion. You should be moving with the most efficiency and power, and at some point the amount of extra work your body is doing through over extension or retraction does not add corresponding work to the rower and takes more time.

Start with short and powerful strokes. Strong leg drive, quick pull to your sternum with the handle. Don't whip the chain, you should retract smoothly and quickly, but it does not need to go slack. Remember legs - arms - arms - legs, you should not be going around your knees with the handle, which can also whip the chain.

You can change your display on the rower to the watt graph, which should show a good quick increase to a peak, which then flattens out a bit, then drops on the retraction. An extremely strong pull is in the 400-500 watt range. A 2:30 500m pace is around a 100 watt average and 2:00 500m pace is around 200w.

3:34 average is very slow - not to berate you about it - but gives you a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Viper GTS]

3:34 average is very slow - not to berate you about it - but gives you a lot of room for improvement.

While he's right - this is very slow - you will see massive improvements quickly as your technique improves. Watch videos, post videos if you can (the /r/rowing crowd is pretty helpful and always happy to critique) until you get it right.

Viper GTS

 

[Scarpozzi]

I just completed Session #2 on my Model D. Whole different story. Wearing same clothes, changed Intensity to No. 4. Strategy was to have maximum chain retraction and extension, basically, establishing a rhythm.

10:00 (i.e. ten minutes exactly)
1413 m
3:34 min./500m average

Sound good? It felt decent! No issues, physically. Will skate this afternoon.

That's good. Pay attention to how many strokes per minute you're at. I said it before that 18-22 is a good easy to moderate pace....28-32 is a fast/race pace. You can speed up or slow down and still pull hard enough to spin the machine and adjust your splits.

Using the computer is the only real way to know how you're doing. It reads how you're REALLY spinning the machine.

Look for plans like the one here and set a time/pace goal based on what's comfortable...don't do too much, too fast. I really don't have a good idea of what's normal for "fitness" because I was in decent shape and doing this stuff daily 20 years ago.

21-Day Training Plan for Mastering the Rowing Machine | Anytime Fitness

Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on linkedin Share on pinterest Share on email Rowing is one of the oldest events in the Olympic games and is

www.anytimefitness.com

When I was training, we would often do sets. We would set our spm at 18 or 20 as a target, pull a 1:50-2:00/500 split avg. Play music and go for 13 mins per set. 3 sets for a total of 39 minutes with 4-5 minute water/stretch breaks in between was a typical workout. The idea is to do the cardio, but really fine-tune your muscles a core so it gets easier.

You're doing great. Keep it up. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing ....my goal is to cut 20lbs that I picked up the past year or 2. I guess I'm getting serious again.

 

[Muse]

I've managed to not gain weight since SIP started but I've wanted the whole time to shed 30+ lb. I started at maybe 181-182, am now at maybe 178-179. I'm 5'10". I figure the aerobic I've been committing myself to should help me in shedding the weight. Obviously, if I don't eat more and burn more calories, the pounds will burn away over time.

Had a decent skate this afternoon but substandard for me the last 2 weeks. Still, better than 2-3 weeks ago. It was warmer than I'd like.

Had no idea the sophistication of this rower. It's a whole new world for me. I have never used the cardio equipment in the gym much. In fact, I don't even know if they have Concept2 machines. Figure they probably do (24HourFitness). I've done some cardio in the gym at times, the elliptical stair stepper the only one I did to speak of and I knew enough to get a workout, which was almost nothing! Precor machines, IIRC. I meant to look up how to really use them, think I tried a little, could never find anything. The last 10 years or so, mostly for cardio I relied on my skating and bicycling around town, utterly informal, nothing disciplined. 10-15 years ago I used to bike into the hills, really had a discipline about it, doing it daily. A rise of ~800 feet, I guess and took IIRC about an hour. I'd take splits at various locations, making mental notes. Cervical deterioration... neck vertebrae stuff has resulted in tingling in my left hand and I guess some neck pain, and that comes on when I bicycle much, so I had to totally give up that hill climbing which was, of course, fabulous cardio. I slept in a weird position around 4 years ago one night and pinched a nerve in my neck and literally overnight lost a lot of upper body strength on the left side. I went from doing 8 really good chinups to barely being able to do one. Over a few months that went away and my strength came back.

 

[Viper GTS]

If you post here you'd probably appreciate the kind of data logging it can do via the phone apps (eg ergdata).

It will upload detailed heart rate, wattage/split, and stroke data to C2's log and store it for you.

Example:

v22:30/2:15r...6 row on September 23, 2020

Distance: 27,276, Time: 2:26:15.0, Pace: 2:28.8, Energy Burned: 1493 Calories

log.concept2.com

I'm also slow as shit right now but I don't mind putting serious time into it.

Viper GTS

 

[Muse]

Don't focus too much on maxing the chain, over-doing it at either end of the stroke is bad.

Viper GTS

I overstated that. I had the thought that increasing the retraction and extension of the chain while pulling reasonably hard would (I figured) provide the resistance I was lacking yesterday in my first use. So, I tried to do that some during today's 10 minute 2nd session. I saw that video of the woman in this thread, 3-4 minutes and her knees went very bent at the beginning of each stroke. That enabled the chain to retract pretty maximally. Then she pulled the bar to her chest and leaned back so much that her head was behind the back of the machine by looked to be 8-10 inches. That's pretty major chain extension. So that's where I got that idea. I didn't lean back that much today, but more than yesterday, when I didn't at all. I didn't do anything crazy to get those extensions, just tried to get some of what she did.

 

[deadlyapp]

If you post here you'd probably appreciate the kind of data logging it can do via the phone apps (eg ergdata).

It will upload detailed heart rate, wattage/split, and stroke data to C2's log and store it for you.

Example:

v22:30/2:15r...6 row on September 23, 2020

Distance: 27,276, Time: 2:26:15.0, Pace: 2:28.8, Energy Burned: 1493 Calories

log.concept2.com

I'm also slow as shit right now but I don't mind putting serious time into it.

Viper GTS

Sweet jesus 2 hours plus of rowing? lol

 

[Muse]

Sweet jesus 2 hours plus of rowing? lol

I'm gonna see what I can do this morning. Not going over 20 minutes, probably, it's just my 3rd session. Session #1 doesn't even count, I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I'm hoping I can average under 3 minutes/500m for 20 minutes. I don't have my technique yet, will see how it goes. Go Viper GTS!

 

[Muse]

I'm gonna see what I can do this morning. Not going over 20 minutes, probably, it's just my 3rd session. Session #1 doesn't even count, I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I'm hoping I can average under 3 minutes/500m for 20 minutes. I don't have my technique yet, will see how it goes. Go Viper GTS!

Just did my basically 2nd session on the Model D:

Intensity: 4

10:00 minutes
2:56.8 average minutes/500m
1717 m total
27-30 strokes/minute pretty much

So, improvement! Sprinted the last 30 seconds, got below 2:30 m/500m briefly. Felt it a lot more in my arms this time, but felt OK. Not really feeling it in my legs, maybe bad form. Well, my legs are likely my strong suit right now what with the bike and all the skating. I haven't been working my arms and shoulders since March. I have some light dumbbells, got a stretch cord set, but haven't done anything with those yet.

 

[Muse]

With proper mechanics and appropriate scaling of intensity and damper setting, there is no reason why it should flare up anything.

OK, I think the Intensity setting is that giant dial on the right, correct? The one I set at 10 (with no apparent benefit) and now have at 4, on recommendation.

But what is the "damper setting?"

 

[Viper GTS]

Just did my basically 2nd session on the Model D:

Intensity: 4

10:00 minutes
2:56.8 average minutes/500m
1717 m total
27-30 strokes/minute pretty much

So, improvement! Sprinted the last 30 seconds, got below 2:30 m/500m briefly. Felt it a lot more in my arms this time, but felt OK. Not really feeling it in my legs, maybe bad form. Well, my legs are likely my strong suit right now what with the bike and all the skating. I haven't been working my arms and shoulders since March. I have some light dumbbells, got a stretch cord set, but haven't done anything with those yet.

Try to slow down, 27-30 is really fast. You can go much faster than 2:56 with a much slower stroke rate than 27.

OK, I think the Intensity setting is that giant dial on the right, correct? The one I set at 10 (with no apparent benefit) and now have at 4, on recommendation.

But what is the "damper setting?"

They're the same thing. The dial controls how much air moves through the fan, which changes the drag factor (how fast the fan slows down).

The 1-10 scale isn't really what matters, what matters is the drag factor that results. This will vary by density of air, whether or not you have something like my C-Breeze installed, etc. In general a higher number on the dial = higher drag factor, but drag factor is something that can be directly compared from machine to machine without paying attention to machine variance/environmental factors.

Understanding Drag Factor

Viper GTS

 

[Scarpozzi]

Sweet jesus 2 hours plus of rowing? lol

Agreed. At some point, if you're rowing that far, you should consider a sail or a motor....or a huge drum and some vikings.

 

[Muse]

Try to slow down, 27-30 is really fast. You can go much faster than 2:56 with a much slower stroke rate than 27.



They're the same thing. The dial controls how much air moves through the fan, which changes the drag factor (how fast the fan slows down).

The 1-10 scale isn't really what matters, what matters is the drag factor that results. This will vary by density of air, whether or not you have something like my C-Breeze installed, etc. In general a higher number on the dial = higher drag factor, but drag factor is something that can be directly compared from machine to machine without paying attention to machine variance/environmental factors.

Understanding Drag Factor

Viper GTS

Seems counter intuitive. Slower stroke rate makes for faster rowing?

The video you linked is interesting, just watched it.

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Guess I should try what he recommended there, setting the damper at 1 and doing the routine he described to get the form required at higher damper settings, the result being better workout results. I might do better in shorts too! Easier to get the major bend in the knees than in my pants.

Haven't figured out how to get my phone attached to the Model D. There's a plastic clip-on thing, and I think it goes on the top of the PM5, figure that's for a phone or tablet and don't know how that works. Guess I should watch a bunch of Youtube videos. Maybe I can get my HR monitors to give data to the PM5 through bluetooth or Ant+?

 

[Viper GTS]

Seems counter intuitive. Slower stroke rate makes for faster rowing?

The video you linked is interesting, just watched it.

Page 3 - Exercise bikes / Choices / Concept2 Rower

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

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Guess I should try what he recommended there, setting the damper at 1 and doing the routine he described to get the form required at higher damper settings, the result being better workout results. I might do better in shorts too! Easier to get the major bend in the knees than in my pants.

Haven't figured out how to get my phone attached to the Model D. There's a plastic clip-on thing, and I think it goes on the top of the PM5, figure that's for a phone or tablet and don't know how that works. Guess I should watch a bunch of Youtube videos. Maybe I can get my HR monitors to give data to the PM5 through bluetooth or Ant+?

How hard you pull and how often you pull are different things, and you can adjust them independently.

Phone mount goes on top of PM5. Bluetooth PM5 to phone. HR monitor will connect to the PM5 via either BT or ANT+, both work fine and will report into whatever app you use to log data.

I strongly recommend going wired though, bluetooth on the PM5 is not the most reliable thing though apparently there's a beta firmware that helps (update the PM5 if you haven't yet).

Assuming you have a USB C Android phone:

One of these:

Amazon.com: Anker USB-C to USB 3.1 Adapter, Converts USB-C Female into USB-A Female, Uses USB OTG Technology, Compatible with Samsung Galaxy Note 8, S8 S8+ S9, iPad Pro 2018, Nexus 6P 5X, LG V20 G5 and more

Buy Anker USB-C to USB 3.1 Adapter, Converts USB-C Female into USB-A Female, Uses USB OTG Technology, Compatible with Samsung Galaxy Note 8, S8 S8+ S9, iPad Pro 2018, Nexus 6P 5X, LG V20 G5 and more: USB-to-USB Adapters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

smile.amazon.com

And one of these:

Amazon.com: RiteAV - USB 2.0 Cable A-B 1 ft.: Computers & Accessories

Amazon.com: RiteAV - USB 2.0 Cable A-B 1 ft.: Computers & Accessories

smile.amazon.com

Get the 12 inch, the six inch works but makes a really tight bend.

I leave the cable + adapter hanging from the PM5 and just plug in and go. The app launches automatically and no BT weirdness.

Viper GTS

 

[Viper GTS]

Agreed. At some point, if you're rowing that far, you should consider a sail or a motor....or a huge drum and some vikings.

Concept2 fall team challenge is running and I'm stuck at home with nothing better to do so...

I'm not doing that kind of volume normally, was doing ~18.5k before this started.

Viper GTS

 

[Muse]

How hard you pull and how often you pull are different things, and you can adjust them independently.

Phone mount goes on top of PM5. Bluetooth PM5 to phone. HR monitor will connect to the PM5 via either BT or ANT+, both work fine and will report into whatever app you use to log data.

I strongly recommend going wired though, bluetooth on the PM5 is not the most reliable thing though apparently there's a beta firmware that helps (update the PM5 if you haven't yet).

Assuming you have a USB C Android phone:

One of these:

Amazon.com: Anker USB-C to USB 3.1 Adapter, Converts USB-C Female into USB-A Female, Uses USB OTG Technology, Compatible with Samsung Galaxy Note 8, S8 S8+ S9, iPad Pro 2018, Nexus 6P 5X, LG V20 G5 and more

Buy Anker USB-C to USB 3.1 Adapter, Converts USB-C Female into USB-A Female, Uses USB OTG Technology, Compatible with Samsung Galaxy Note 8, S8 S8+ S9, iPad Pro 2018, Nexus 6P 5X, LG V20 G5 and more: USB-to-USB Adapters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

smile.amazon.com

And one of these:

Amazon.com: RiteAV - USB 2.0 Cable A-B 1 ft.: Computers & Accessories

Amazon.com: RiteAV - USB 2.0 Cable A-B 1 ft.: Computers & Accessories

smile.amazon.com

Get the 12 inch, the six inch works but makes a really tight bend.

I leave the cable + adapter hanging from the PM5 and just plug in and go. The app launches automatically and no BT weirdness.

Viper GTS

I may have both of those already, actually.

I have two of these:

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

The other one I have from an external HD that died.

 

[Viper GTS]

I may have both of those already, actually.

I have two of these:

Pardon Our Interruption...

www.ebay.com

The other one I have from an external HD that died.

Will probably work fine, just might be a lot of excess cable. The ~15" total of the two I linked is nice, but if you already have those just coil them up and let them hang there.

Viper GTS

 

[deadlyapp]

Seems counter intuitive. Slower stroke rate makes for faster rowing?

The video you linked is interesting, just watched it.

Page 3 - Exercise bikes / Choices / Concept2 Rower

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Guess I should try what he recommended there, setting the damper at 1 and doing the routine he described to get the form required at higher damper settings, the result being better workout results. I might do better in shorts too! Easier to get the major bend in the knees than in my pants.

Haven't figured out how to get my phone attached to the Model D. There's a plastic clip-on thing, and I think it goes on the top of the PM5, figure that's for a phone or tablet and don't know how that works. Guess I should watch a bunch of Youtube videos. Maybe I can get my HR monitors to give data to the PM5 through bluetooth or Ant+?

Just think of it like this - in order to maintain a pace, while reducing your stroke rate, you must have stronger pulls. Some of the best drills I've done (and I'm just your basic Crossfitter) are to build up a good pace at a higher stroke rate, then drop that stroke rate by 1-2 spm every 30 seconds or so, while keeping my pace the same. This forces you to work on slowing down, while pulling harder. Over time you'll develop the capability to maintain a high pace, with low stroke rate, which in turn allows you to have a blistering pace when you increase your stroke rate.

As far as the damper is concerned, just think of it like this: Pulling on the rower is much easier when the flywheel is spinning, and the goal is to never let the flywheel slow down too much. If you aren't pulling hard enough, or fast enough, but your damper setting is too high, then you're basically starting the flywheel from a stop (or slow roll) every time, which takes more out of you (read: low efficiency). A damper setting at 10 has certain benefits, but for the average person, a setting between 4 and 7 is ideal for keeping the flywheel going and being the most efficient.