Originally posted by: palehorse
huh? I said that?!
Holy jacked up cut-and-paste!
Here's what I meant to quote:
My apologies.
The idea that any one executive is responsible for making all decisions, or running a state, is absolutely absurd and laughable. Does this mean there is no bureaucracy in Alaska?
You seem to forget that just because a person goes through experiences, it does not mean that they learned from them or performed well while going through them. Palin's track record is less that admirable to say the least. If she has learned from her mistakes and has since turned a new leaf then that's fantastic, but I have seen no evidence thus far of such things and I really do not like how she thinks or how she approaches and solves problems. Her experience is turning me off to the idea of her receiving a bunch of power much more so than a lack of experience would influence me about her.
Obama's experience is limited when it comes to certain issues, but most of his performance during that experience is much more favorable from my point of view.
And you seem to ignore the facts that both Palin and McCain who has leadership experience as a commander in the Navy, have performed well. Remember it took 3 days for Obama to figure out what he wanted to say about the Russian/Georgian conflict.
Right or wrong, it took G.W., McCain, Nicolas Sarkozy of France and Horst Koehler of Germany less then 1 hour to make a decision on how to deal with Russia and Georgia and come out publically with that response.
Hmm... it took Obama 3 days???? I think executive experience matters.
It means, like in every other situation, that there is one executive ultimately responsible for executive decisions. The CEO of a large corporation doesn't make the millions of daily decisions, but he is ultimately responsible for the decision making as the chief executive. He makes the final calls.
...or it just means they prefer to go with their gut and take risks jumping the gun while Obama prefers to think things through in order to dot I's and cross T's so that mistakes are not made as often. McCain has a scary history of going with his gut too often. I see that kind of behavior and immediately think "irresponsible" and a lack of paying proper attention to detail. Not good. I would rather have a president that takes longer to make the right decisions than a president who can quickly make the wrong decisions.
Also, the quality of her performance as a commander in the Navy is debatable. I haven't personally come to a conclusion on that yet. Regardless, I do know that even if I come to the point of believing that her experience in the Navy is A+, Obama + Biden still score much higher points in my mind in the experience area and how they will use it.
Hehe you are right and I suck. I really need to limit my P&N posting to being after 10:00am. Still, my point remains quite valid even though it was applied based on a misunderstanding.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
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Leadership is not the exclusive purview of executives.
Literally, executives are tasked with "executing" or carry out the laws. Legislators are tasked with drafting, duh, legislation. But to say there is no leadership in the senate or congress is misleading.
Part of the reason legislatures take a long time to get things done is because, in effect, everyone is trying to be a leader, and the way to compromise requires convincing another leader to agree to some of your ideas, just as you must agree to some of his.
Additionally there are various committees and projects that a senator or congressman must chair and lead various groups to a consensus.
Don't forget that even a president has checks (usually) on his power, and while he no doubt has more unilateral power than an individual member of Congress, the president too must genearlly compromise with Congress in his appointees and on what legislation he will veto or sign.
All that said, I have serious doubts that executive experience at any job in the world is satisfactory "training" for the US Presidency. It is a job unique from all others, and some of our best presidents had no executive experience while some of our worst had tons of it. You never know how someone will turn out once they get to the White House.
Which is why, IMO, it makes more sense to recognize that knowledge and judgment may be more important than 'executive' experience when it comes to the Chief Executive.
That's the whole thing about "executive experience." An executive does not always have time to think things through... That is what Congress is for. An excutive needs to be able to make a judgment call or decision quickly and make it right. Sometimes they miss but they need to have fast answers.
And do you have any examples of when McCain went with his gut and didn't think things through? Seems like that more of an Obama kind of thing to do, except his gut can't make up it's mind thinking through or not. And keep in mind, Obama came out with a fast answer he just changed his mind a few times and came up with the same answer as McCain after 3 days. His quick decision was to let the UN figure it out, but he must have forgot that Russia has Veto power there...
It's his experience, McCain was in the Navy not Palin!
And both McCain and Palin have had to make decisions to put people in harms way. McCain when he was a Commander in the Navy and Palin has to approve or disapprove her Alaska National Guard to go into battle or not.
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
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When a decision needs to be made, an executive has to make it.
They can not say, I will think it over, come back to me later, let some one lese decide.
Their responsibility is to state YES or NO.
Not to state PRESENT; because they can not make a decision because they are not prepared or it might make them look bad, etc.
They can not say, I will think it over, come back to me later, let some one lese decide.
Their responsibility is to state YES or NO.
Not to state PRESENT; because they can not make a decision because they are not prepared or it might make them look bad, etc.
Please stop spreading this disinformation from talking points. I've heard this all over the place. Unless you want to make the case that putting soldiers over seas and having them take bullets is the same as controlling a forest fire which from her record is the one thing she has specifically told the Alaska National Guard to do.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...uard-gen_n_122860.html
Edit: Let me correct myself. Seems like she's never given a single order to the Alaskan National Guard according to the Anchorage Daily News. The one order she gave is to tell Maj. Gen. Craig Campbell to act as he seems fit. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/51665.html
Sometimes they need to make fast decisions. Other times they can afford to be more patient. It all depends on the case. Obama is not president yet. He had time to choose his position when it comes to Georgia so he took it. That doesn't mean he required that amount of time to go public and it doesn't mean that he would have opted to take that long if he were president. McCain was in the same boat but he did not take his time and I have to wonder why not. It might matter and it might not. The only fact is that it happened.
If you don't understand McCain's history of swiftly going with his gut then I think you need to read more about what your fellow Republicans have to say on that matter and don't bother with me. A large portion of my conclusion on that subject is coming from their mouths and not the mine. There are many who like that about him and believe that it shows potential signs of confidence. I do not like it. I believe it shows potential signs of irresponsibility.
You're right. I was mixing that up with her decision making stuff concerning the national guard which is the part that is debatable.
Again, it isn't going through the experiences which counts. It is how you handled them at the time, what you learn from the experiences, and how you will use what you have learned in the future. There are people out there with decades of political experience who I wouldn't trust with a nerf gun because they simply never learn and/or they are influenced in ways that are not what I consider best for this country. There are others with far less experience but are learning and being influenced far more productively.
Keep in mind that I am not trying to say that either McCain or Palin are some kind of true evil. That's ridiculous. They both have their strengths and they have their weaknesses. The same goes for Obama and Biden who also have their strengths and weaknesses.
We can go back and forth about the decisions in the past made by McCain were right and most of us will decide if they were right based on ideology or our personal views and we may or may not agree on some or all of them...
But the fact is that both Palin and McCain individually have more executive experience then the combined executive experience on the Obama ticket.
But the fact is that both Palin and McCain individually have more executive experience then the combined executive experience on the Obama ticket.
I agree to limited degree about "overpaid, overpromised, and underdelivered" part but the stock began it's run after her departure because macro environment turned around. For example, Dell and HP stock performance was about even 2003-2005. I believe HP was in a better position after capex spending picked back up in 2005 BECAUSE of the merger and the new sales channels acquired from Compaq.
Just because Obama can speak well doesn't mean he'll be "any damn good as President."
To each their own.
We can't base our votes executive experience, but it is definately more relevant then a distraction.
If it wasn't the libs wouldn't be all up in arms against it.
We vote on Presidents to make tough decisions and we vote on on senators to write and pass or deny laws.
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
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I think what Obama needs to do is open up a discussion with the American people and ask why is it that McCain doesn't practice "executive faith"
Because you see...christians that practice 'executive faith' understand that it is not only important to realize that we are "saved and forgiven" as McCain so eloquently put it.
But that we are saved, and forgiven, and we must now go out and preach the word of God to bring people closer to Jesus Christ. A Christian that practices "executive faith" is a Christian that has a deep, personal, and life changing relationship with Jesus Christ. A Christian that practices "executive faith" knows that he or she is called upon to do good in the community. Which is why Obama started his career as a community organizer in Chicago. Because Obama knows what it means to practice "executive faith"
Obama is a better Christian than McCain. Because Obama practices "executive faith"
Because you see...christians that practice 'executive faith' understand that it is not only important to realize that we are "saved and forgiven" as McCain so eloquently put it.
But that we are saved, and forgiven, and we must now go out and preach the word of God to bring people closer to Jesus Christ. A Christian that practices "executive faith" is a Christian that has a deep, personal, and life changing relationship with Jesus Christ. A Christian that practices "executive faith" knows that he or she is called upon to do good in the community. Which is why Obama started his career as a community organizer in Chicago. Because Obama knows what it means to practice "executive faith"
Obama is a better Christian than McCain. Because Obama practices "executive faith"
You are correct, but what I am trying to explain to you is that experience doesn't mean jack by simply existing. The numbers alone mean next to nothing. You don't need to look towards politics to understand what I am telling you. You can take something more simple such as the vast number of business execs and managers out there who clearly don't know crap about what they are doing and/or they are hardly doing crap during their years of "executive experience" while others are pulling all the weight and making the real decisions. I have already explained the rest in previous posts.
More simply put, you gotta look at the whole picture and draw your opinion from there.
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