Exchange of Brake Fluid

[Zargon]

The above mentioned vehicle has 60k-I would change the tranny fluid before being concerned about the brake fluid.

I will say this.

On my wifes car I did the tranny fluid at 40K. YUCK. it was nasty. so glad I did it.

I did start to flush the brakes, but it was evident they didnt really need it. yet. Went ahead and did it anyways as I swapped from the OEM fluid to Valvoline Syntech

I did my jeeps brakes at 170K.

If you really dont think it needed it changed, thats great. but it was black. and nasty.

when I autocrossed I had to do it every winter. my dads camaro we flush the system twice a year, and you can tell when its been done.

for most people you can probably do 80-100k brake fluid intervals, but if you actually drive your vehicle at all, I would change it.

its 10 bucks in fluid every 2-3 years. you can generally get away with only doing it when you need to replace brake parts. thats when I messed with my wifes car, she needed rear pads.

 

[Raizinman]

After only a year of service, the brake fluid in the average vehicle may contain as much as two percent water. After 18 months, the level of contamination can be as high as three percent. And after several years of service, it’s not unusual to find brake fluid that contains as much as seven to eight percent water.

An NHTSA survey found that the brake fluid in 20% of 1,720 vehicles sampled contained 5% or more water!

As the concentration of moisture increases, it causes a sharp drop in the fluid’s boiling temperature. Brand new DOT 3 brake fluid must have a dry (no moisture) boiling point of at least 401 degrees F, and a wet (moisture-saturated) boiling point of no less than 284 degrees. Most new DOT 3 fluids exceed these requirements and have a dry boiling point that ranges from 460 degrees up to over 500 degrees.

Only one percent water in the fluid can lower the boiling point of a typical DOT 3 fluid to 369 degrees. Two percent water can push the boiling point down to around 320 degrees, and three percent will take it all the way down to 293 degrees—which is getting dangerously close to the minimum DOT and OEM requirements.

Water contamination increases the danger of brake failure because vapor pockets can form if the fluid gets too hot. Vapor displaces fluid and is compressible, so when the brakes are applied the pedal may go all the way to the floor without applying the brakes!
In addition to the safety issue, water-laden brake fluid promotes corrosion and pitting in caliper pistons and bores, wheel cylinders, master cylinders, steel brake lines and ABS modulators.

Ford, however, recently changed its position and now recommends fresh fluid every 36,000 miles or three years—and to replace the fluid each time the brake pads are changed.

Several import vehicle manufacturers also recommend fluid changes for preventative maintenance. BMW says the fluid should be changed every two years. Honda recommends a flush & fill every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Subaru also recommends a 30,000 mile fluid change. Volkswagen recommends changing the fluid every two years, and clearly states this in their owners manuals.

As for GM, we can only look at their past recommendations with DexCool that clogged and ruined many a cooling systems years ago.

 

[slag]

Dex Cool doesn't cause issues with cooling systems, its just a bunch of FUD being spread around.

Take this one for example, on the first google hit about dexcool:

bought 03 chevy malibu. dexcool cooliant blew seals water pump and created fuel pump issue. bought car in 06. 34000 miles now 78000 and sev. thousands later waiting and wondering when issue be fixed and anti theft issue. car wont start sometimes or turns off while driving! got to turn key when happens, leave on for 10 mins to reset...and never know when its gonna happen, random.

OMG, dexcool created a fuel pump issue. Also causes electrical issues!!!
Dexcool mixes fine with green antifreeze and water, yet people swear its the blob in their engines. I've owned two vehicles with Dexcool, driven them both 65k before selling them, and had ZERO issues. none, zip nada. If dex cool was the engine eating monster people are claiming it is, I'd have had issues in those 65k miles on either or both engines.

 

[Zargon]

yeah I had dexcool in my quad4 grand am

200k miles before the water pump seal started leaking

by 210k is was so bad I had to get rid of it, since no one will replace the seal on those because you have to yank the engine to do it

 

[Eli]

yeah I had dexcool in my quad4 grand am

200k miles before the water pump seal started leaking

by 210k is was so bad I had to get rid of it, since no one will replace the seal on those because you have to yank the engine to do it

I'm sure any shop would have been happy to do it... for a price.. lol

 

[BUTCH1]

Dex Cool doesn't cause issues with cooling systems, its just a bunch of FUD being spread around.

Take this one for example, on the first google hit about dexcool:

bought 03 chevy malibu. dexcool cooliant blew seals water pump and created fuel pump issue. bought car in 06. 34000 miles now 78000 and sev. thousands later waiting and wondering when issue be fixed and anti theft issue. car wont start sometimes or turns off while driving! got to turn key when happens, leave on for 10 mins to reset...and never know when its gonna happen, random.

OMG, dexcool created a fuel pump issue. Also causes electrical issues!!!
Dexcool mixes fine with green antifreeze and water, yet people swear its the blob in their engines. I've owned two vehicles with Dexcool, driven them both 65k before selling them, and had ZERO issues. none, zip nada. If dex cool was the engine eating monster people are claiming it is, I'd have had issues in those 65k miles on either or both engines.

The issue with Dexcool was if you let the system get low and air got in it can turn to a real gummy mess. My car (05) came with dexcool but I changed it at 50K, I just don't trust any coolant for 5 yrs/100K miles.

 

[BUTCH1]

After only a year of service, the brake fluid in the average vehicle may contain as much as two percent water. After 18 months, the level of contamination can be as high as three percent. And after several years of service, it’s not unusual to find brake fluid that contains as much as seven to eight percent water.

An NHTSA survey found that the brake fluid in 20% of 1,720 vehicles sampled contained 5% or more water!

As the concentration of moisture increases, it causes a sharp drop in the fluid’s boiling temperature. Brand new DOT 3 brake fluid must have a dry (no moisture) boiling point of at least 401 degrees F, and a wet (moisture-saturated) boiling point of no less than 284 degrees. Most new DOT 3 fluids exceed these requirements and have a dry boiling point that ranges from 460 degrees up to over 500 degrees.

Only one percent water in the fluid can lower the boiling point of a typical DOT 3 fluid to 369 degrees. Two percent water can push the boiling point down to around 320 degrees, and three percent will take it all the way down to 293 degrees—which is getting dangerously close to the minimum DOT and OEM requirements.

Water contamination increases the danger of brake failure because vapor pockets can form if the fluid gets too hot. Vapor displaces fluid and is compressible, so when the brakes are applied the pedal may go all the way to the floor without applying the brakes!
In addition to the safety issue, water-laden brake fluid promotes corrosion and pitting in caliper pistons and bores, wheel cylinders, master cylinders, steel brake lines and ABS modulators.

Ford, however, recently changed its position and now recommends fresh fluid every 36,000 miles or three years—and to replace the fluid each time the brake pads are changed.

Several import vehicle manufacturers also recommend fluid changes for preventative maintenance. BMW says the fluid should be changed every two years. Honda recommends a flush & fill every 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Subaru also recommends a 30,000 mile fluid change. Volkswagen recommends changing the fluid every two years, and clearly states this in their owners manuals.

As for GM, we can only look at their past recommendations with DexCool that clogged and ruined many a cooling systems years ago.

The brake fluid that came in my car (05 Malibu) supposedly was good for 100K miles, Delco claimed that it came up with a formula that didn't scavenge water easily, I bled out my whole system at 40K when I replaced the pads and the 3 year old fluid looked noticeably brown, glad I did it, $5 for a can of new fluid and 20 minutes of my time are pretty cheap insurance IMO..

 

[Howard]

The issue with Dexcool was if you let the system get low and air got in it can turn to a real gummy mess. My car (05) came with dexcool but I changed it at 50K, I just don't trust any coolant for 5 yrs/100K miles.

So a drain and fill procedure will kill the cooling system. Nice.

 

[BUTCH1]

So a drain and fill procedure will kill the cooling system. Nice.

No, not at all, this was occurring because coolant levels were low on some cars (but not enough for overheat) but low enough that air got in the system for long periods of time. When a drain/refill is done a manual is needed as some cars have vents that must be opened to ensure that no trapped air remains.

 

[Howard]

No, not at all, this was occurring because coolant levels were low on some cars (but not enough for overheat) but low enough that air got in the system for long periods of time. When a drain/refill is done a manual is needed as some cars have vents that must be opened to ensure that no trapped air remains.

Mine doesn't have any vents. I think I might be fucked now.

 

[slag]

yeah I had dexcool in my quad4 grand am

200k miles before the water pump seal started leaking

by 210k is was so bad I had to get rid of it, since no one will replace the seal on those because you have to yank the engine to do it

I changed a water pump in a quad 4 before. Of course, it was while the engine was out of the car and I was replacing a blown one... Still sucked!

 

[Rifter]

You are retarded if you dont change the brake fluid at least every 80,000-100,000kms. Regardless of what auto makers tell you it will absorb water which will greatly reduce boiling point which will end up with you boiling the fluid if you ever push the brakes hard like in a mountain pass or large hill, especially if towing.

Remember the auto makers dont care what happens to your car after 100,000(or wqhatever the warranty on your particuler vehicle is) they can tell you you never need to change brake,cooling,trans fluid and then when you go to check it when you run into issues after the warranty is up its now your problem to fix. Better to keep your fluids in good shape from the beginning.

 

[slag]

So a drain and fill procedure will kill the cooling system. Nice.

Nope. Don't believe everything you read. Dexcool would foam up a bit sometimes and put rust colored foam on the radiator cap. People would see that and go OMG, its rusting out my cooling system and eating my engine up. The foam caused zero issues, it was just a byproduct of the dexcool mixing with hot gas/air, but looked a lot like rust. Of course, it was orange so that didn't help.

 

[Howard]

Nope. Don't believe everything you read. Dexcool would foam up a bit sometimes and put rust colored foam on the radiator cap. People would see that and go OMG, its rusting out my cooling system and eating my engine up. The foam caused zero issues, it was just a byproduct of the dexcool mixing with hot gas/air, but looked a lot like rust. Of course, it was orange so that didn't help.

I was actually being sarcastic.

 

[catilley1092]

Dexcool holds up a long time, much longer than that green stuff did. I have a 21 year old & a 10 year old Toyota, no rust in the cooling system, and no leaks from the water pump. The 21 year old one came with the green kind, but I switched it around 30,000 miles.

Plus, I use Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil, neither car uses oil, and neither has had as much as the valve seals replaced.

I have the brake fluid changed at every other front brake pad change. The mechanic that suggested this to me was not doing work for me, he's a friend of mine. The reason that he told me this, is because Toyota master cylinders (& wheel cylinders) are costly, much more so than the cost of changing the fluid. So I took his advice, and even that 21 year old Tercel with 310,000 miles on it has never had any major parts replaced, not even the water pump.

Spending a little extra on maintenance saves big in the long run. It really does.

Cat

 

[thescreensavers]

How the heck did a brake fluid thread turn into a Coolant thread lol

 

[Zargon]

I'm sure any shop would have been happy to do it... for a price.. lol

nope

i would get quotes, agree, show up and they would say, OH shit nevermind sorry we wont work on those.

well one did that, 2 others called me back. a few flat out refused on the phone.

 

[BUTCH1]

Mine doesn't have any vents. I think I might be fucked now.

Mine doesn't either, on certain cars where the manufacturer knows air will be trapped at a given point the vents are designed to ensure the remaining air can be purged out..

 

[T2urtle]

How the heck did a brake fluid thread turn into a Coolant thread lol

same BS idea applies. " lifetime fluids" in a perfect world yes i guess there is such things.

Brake fluid could be lifetime if calipers seals NEVER fail allowing dirt to get in. You dont overheat your brakes and boil off fluids. Same idea can go with coolant, if water pumps never rust/fall apart/seize up, hoses never wear out or internal parts never break down.

In all honesty most cars and car owners on the road today never car to replace any of their fluids other then oil and washer fluid. If they do replace other fluids, someone recommended they do it or sometime failed.

Black dirty 15+ year old brake fluid still stops cars pretty decently. As i've found out on friends LS400, like a 93 or so. Thing never has a brake flush done, never had a coolant flush other then a top off when it was time for water pump replacements. He did do the rear diff like at 250k miles once. Its still runnning at 330k last time we talked about it. Runs better and smoother then most of these 2010+ eco cars.

 

[5150MyU]

I've done a few(GM) quad four waterpumps--never had to take the head off?
Timing chain and a bunch of other shit ,but not the head.

 

[Pariah]

What do the auto makers say about fluid changes? General Motors and Chrysler do not mention brake fluid in their
scheduled maintenance recommendations.

And how many GM vehicles have you verified this with?

Page 6-6 of my GM vehicle's manual:

Additional Required Services

Change brake fluid. (every 75,000 miles) See footnote (k).

(k) Drain, flush, and refill brake hydraulic system (or
every two years, whichever occurs first). This service
can be complex; you should have your dealer perform
this service. See Brakes on page 5-35 and
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on page 6-12.


Considering the average car travels less than 30k miles every two years, the recommendation from GM's own manual is change your brake fluid every 2 years, not change it never.

 

[Raizinman]

What do the auto makers say about fluid changes? General Motors and Chrysler do not mention brake fluid in their
scheduled maintenance recommendations. A General Motors spokesman said​

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Delco Supreme 11 DOT 3 brake fluid​

contains additives than many other brake fluids do not, so it is essentially a lifetime fluid. Starting in 1993, GM began
using a new type of rubber brake hose with an EPM lining and outer jacketing that reduces moisture penetration by 50%.​

So GM does not consider fluid contamination to be a significant problem.
Being a GM tech, that is what I went by-others recomennend replacing-But I still think you are a deuche bag.

Leave the guy alone. He thinks he is a GM tech. At least he has the primadonna attitude down pat. LOL

 

[BUTCH1]

What do the auto makers say about fluid changes? General Motors and Chrysler do not mention brake fluid in their
scheduled maintenance recommendations. A General Motors spokesman said​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

Delco Supreme 11 DOT 3 brake fluid​

contains additives than many other brake fluids do not, so it is essentially a lifetime fluid. Starting in 1993, GM began
using a new type of rubber brake hose with an EPM lining and outer jacketing that reduces moisture penetration by 50%.​

So GM does not consider fluid contamination to be a significant problem.
Being a GM tech, that is what I went by-others recomennend replacing-But I still think you are a deuche bag.

Yeah, I've known about that too but I went ahead and changed it anyway when it was time for new pads. The fluid was brown and dirty although I must admit I have no idea if it's functionality was compromised. Since it only adds a small amount of time to do (if your changing pads anyway) why not?.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Definitely do it. Nothing like having fresh fluids in the brakes, tranny and pumpkin.

 

[5150MyU]

And how many GM vehicles have you verified this with?

Page 6-6 of my GM vehicle's manual:

Additional Required Services

Change brake fluid. (every 75,000 miles) See footnote (k).

(k) Drain, flush, and refill brake hydraulic system (or
every two years, whichever occurs first). This service
can be complex; you should have your dealer perform
this service. See Brakes on page 5-35 and
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on page 6-12.


Considering the average car travels less than 30k miles every two years, the recommendation from GM's own manual is change your brake fluid every 2 years, not change it never.

Well someone verified it¿