Evolution...

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Last Rezort
Beyond the ability to communicate, I see very little that makes us much better. And if I'm not mistaken without the ability to read and write, to speak, we would still be animals ourselves.

Humans are the only species that wages war, and kills without need for food. We are systematically killing off the natural recourses and overpopulating.

You ever see a lion kill an antelope? It stalks not one but a herd, and when it attacks they all scatter. After it kills its prey, the herd will stop. Having no fear that the lion will kill again, they have no need to move. They begin to graze again.

As a people we fight even though we are neighbors. Is intelligence really what makes us great? If so then your words are baseless, and it is science that really makes us.

To fall back on an illogical fairy tale to explain for the scientifically unexplainable is foolishness. But again that is why I love this country, we have the freedom to believe what we like.

Pardon me, but every part of this is wrong. You might want to get a clue about what you're talking about. Multiple species wage war, countless species kill without need for food, all species of animals fight with their "neighbors" over territory, and every species on earth will overpopulate given the possible resources (Malthus anyone?).

Who's spouting a fairy tale? Seems like you are if you ask me. That old "only humans are evil" bullsh!t fairy tale. You wanna see that man is just like the animals (and vice versa) and clear that "all of nature is perfect but man" fairy tale from your head? Watch of video of a gang of chimps as they attack a lone chimp, beat him to death, and then pull him to pieces literally.

Do you know why dogs all look different while wolves all look the same, even though dogs and wolves are essentially the same species? Because wolves in the wild will kill any pup at birth that doesn't look the way a wolf should. Evolution at its purest right there.
Or how about the reality behind the Lion King movie (while you're talking about lions). If the male alpha of the pride is killed by a challenger, the new alpha will kill every cub in the pride so that all the females go into heat. This guarantees him that his genes will be passed on, and not those of his predecessor. But yep... only humans kill without need for food!

 

[Promethply]

Originally posted by: chrisms
How is evolution so accepted these days? Is it because we are trying to find an alternative to creationsism? Where are any transitional species that should be seen if Darwin's theory was true? Where are the fossils of half ape, half human creatures which should have come during the evolutionary process? So far we only have fossils of various species which evolutionists try to link together, but if there was truely a link we would have found half bird/half dinosaur type creatures by now.

Maybe this can shed some light to your questions:

The Fossil Fallacy

 

[Moonbeam]

A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

A person commits to the truth or to the protection of his ego, self created false self, from the realization that that ego is there to protect him from experiences of pain suffered early on when the person was real and told that that real self was worthless and dangerous to be.

 

[mhillary]

I still believe...

 

[fjord]

Every organism that has existed or exists falls completely within the concept of evolution. There is not even one single scrap of evidence that contradicts evolution. So far.

There is no evidence for the existance of God. So far.

 

[Last Rezort]

Vic you are right and I am wrong.

While having the same convo. Last night my prev. statement was thrown in my face much the same as you just did. I had neither considered ants or chimps and so apologize for my previous post. In light of my mishap and considering the conversation is on evolution I have a question. How do you feel about forced evolution? What do you think about a construct that would force humans into sects or a class system? Putting the many above the few and creating a culture of change and hardship for the benefit of the species?

Not to mention that your point only pushes the idea I was pushing in the first place. That evolution though unable to explain origins, shows that we are much like every species on the planet. We are in essence animals are we not? Very anti biblical if you ask me.

Also,
Thank you for correcting me Vic.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Last Rezort
Vic you are right and I am wrong.

While having the same convo. Last night my prev. statement was thrown in my face much the same as you just did. I had neither considered ants or chimps and so apologize for my previous post. In light of my mishap and considering the conversation is on evolution I have a question. How do you feel about forced evolution? What do you think about a construct that would force humans into sects or a class system? Putting the many above the few and creating a culture of change and hardship for the benefit of the species?

Not to mention that your point only pushes the idea I was pushing in the first place. That evolution though unable to explain origins, shows that we are much like every species on the planet. We are in essence animals are we not? Very anti biblical if you ask me.

Also,
Thank you for correcting me Vic.

I don't think evolution will ever need to be forced. It will occur whether we will it or not. IMO though human evolution is now behavioral instead of physical, and it is this distinction that separates us from animals.
And on that note, it is not anti-Biblical. One of the biggest messages of the Bible is that life on earth is evil, that man in his natural state is evil like the animals, and that only through finding God can man transcend beyond his natural state. In other words, behavioral evolution.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

A person commits to the truth or to the protection of his ego, self created false self, from the realization that that ego is there to protect him from experiences of pain suffered early on when the person was real and told that that real self was worthless and dangerous to be.

Ah, Moonie... Freud woulda been proud.

How is that any different than this thread that tells readers that they must "believe" in something that does not require belief, i.e. a valid scientific theory? Instead of the scientific proof (that does exist), shall we decide that evolution is only valid via consensus?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: fjord
Every organism that has existed or exists falls completely within the concept of evolution. There is not even one single scrap of evidence that contradicts evolution. So far.

I agree.

There is no evidence for the existance of God. So far.

I suggest you read up on the Stroy of Fatima (and I suggest books, nothing but crap on the net, from both sides of the issue). The event was witnessed by many, not on one day, but every day they were told to come to the same spot where the children had seen the vision. The crowds grew from 5000 to hundreds of thousands. People, including writers, came to Portugal from all over the world, to witness the final event.

Without regard to what one concludes, the events changed the history of Portugal and region forever. IMO, that these three young children could do this, is a miracle in itself.

To me, this event is by far the most credible evidence of any miracle because it spanned across 5 months, involved so many people, and such a large physical area, was relatively recent (less than 100 years ago), and had such a dramatic change to the region and politics.

 

[Last Rezort]

Well pWhile I agree that evolution has become a behavioral thing I would have to point out how afraid of change we are. IMO the biggest and most noticeable social evolutions (I?m not educated enough on biological evolution to give examples) were brought about through oppression.

Many Americans won?t even think of a possibility of aliens, IMO due to a psychological need to feel superior, though we have found life on other planets. The idea that humans are flawed, the thought that, yes, I could be wrong scares people, myself included.

Yes humans have a need to evolve, to become better. I see this in everything we are connected with, computers, cars, energy efficient housing. I think we evolve by will but it is not this will that pushes us towards massive change (bilateral change).

On the part about humans being evil and god, I choose not to delve into because I haven?t come up with a argument to that that sounds even semi intelligent.

 

[Vic]

Except for the fossillized Mars meteorite that was found on earth, we haven't found life on other planets. I don't think Americans won't even think of a possibility of alien life due to any psychological need to feel superior, but because the belief in aliens is not very scientific. No different really than the religious believing in God. And don't bring up the Drake Equation, not one single variable in that can be defined without guessing, and that is not science.

Let me point something out while you're bringing up aliens. Why do some "scientifically-minded" people cling to the hope of alien life despite the lack of evidence? Because it gives them hope in all humankind. We would not be alone on the universe. And maybe the aliens will tell us the purpose of life and the nature of the universe. Right?
Now many of these "scientifically-minded" people believe that the "religiously-minded" people cling to religion and God for the selfish reason of "being saved", and they would not be wrong in every case, but the reality is that most religious people believe in God for the same reason that the scientific people believe in aliens. Because it gives them hope in all humankind. We would not be alone on the universe. And maybe God will tell us the purpose of life and the nature of the universe.

The belief in aliens is everything that is wrong with science today and is corrupting it into a religion. It is the reason why fools who claim to believe in science think that science is in opposition with religion when in fact it is not and never should be. Read this

 

[Last Rezort]

Posted by Vic.
Why do some "scientifically-minded" people cling to the hope of alien life despite the lack of evidence? Because it gives them hope in all humankind. We would not be alone on the universe. And maybe the aliens will tell us the purpose of life and the nature of the universe. Right?
Now many of these "scientifically-minded" people believe that the "religiously-minded" people cling to religion and God for the selfish reason of "being saved", and they would not be wrong in every case, but the reality is that most religious people believe in God for the same reason that the scientific people believe in aliens. Because it gives them hope in all humankind. We would not be alone on the universe. And maybe God will tell us the purpose of life and the nature of the universe.

_________________________________________________________________________

I think your right on here, and your mention of the drake theory before I said it was a good piece of debating. Granted it has become a new justification I?m not sure I fit into this grouping. At the very least you?ve given me something to think about concerning my motives for belief in Alien life. And because it is an illogical belief, and because I always point out that the idea of god is also illogical, you have unearthed my hypocrisy.
Thanks for the thoughts

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: Last Rezort
Posted by Vic.
Why do some "scientifically-minded" people cling to the hope of alien life despite the lack of evidence? Because it gives them hope in all humankind. We would not be alone on the universe. And maybe the aliens will tell us the purpose of life and the nature of the universe. Right?
Now many of these "scientifically-minded" people believe that the "religiously-minded" people cling to religion and God for the selfish reason of "being saved", and they would not be wrong in every case, but the reality is that most religious people believe in God for the same reason that the scientific people believe in aliens. Because it gives them hope in all humankind. We would not be alone on the universe. And maybe God will tell us the purpose of life and the nature of the universe.

_________________________________________________________________________

I think your right on here, and your mention of the drake theory before I said it was a good piece of debating. Granted it has become a new justification I?m not sure I fit into this grouping. At the very least you?ve given me something to think about concerning my motives for belief in Alien life. And because it is an illogical belief, and because I always point out that the idea of god is also illogical, you have unearthed my hypocrisy.
Thanks for the thoughts

I would actually agree with you on this as well. Now, this means that the common goal should be to determine which of us is correct. The motives for any belief should be kept distinct from the evidence for a belief, I think. However, as well all know and see that is in reality never fully possible.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
A fool convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

A person commits to the truth or to the protection of his ego, self created false self, from the realization that that ego is there to protect him from experiences of pain suffered early on when the person was real and told that that real self was worthless and dangerous to be.

Ah, Moonie... Freud woulda been proud.

How is that any different than this thread that tells readers that they must "believe" in something that does not require belief, i.e. a valid scientific theory? Instead of the scientific proof (that does exist), shall we decide that evolution is only valid via consensus?

The problem, Vic, in my opinion, is that we attach ego and our reputation to what we believe. We believe what makes us feel good because we feel so bad and do not know we do. So once we draw false self affirmation form something, religion, science, or anything else, we ossify and cannot let go. We define ourselves by what we believe. This is why real independence of thought is only possible when we die to the self.

 

[Zebo]

Well I don't know anything but word is transitional fossiles are a very minute part of the evolution thoery. Nowadays molecular data is used to confirm morhological similarity/genetic similarity, and coincedently that molecular data supports the fossile findings which we have.

 

[RobCur]

I believe we will all cease to exist sometime in the near future.

And I feel nothing other then a lack of emotion.