You see you time people really need to realise a few things. First off, time is not a line. Time stands still in some places and moves faster in others. You move through time faster if youre on a plane heading east than you do on a plane heading west(this is proven with atomic clocks). God is not constrained by time like we are. God can move freely through time. It doesn't affect him anymore than gravity does. God created time, not the other way around. So, for God it is possible to have created the world a billion years ago and then created man the next day. You see all your theories about the bible not being true because you found a skull that is ten thousand years old really means nothing. God can slow down time, speed it up, go in the past, reverse time, you name it. So all time related arguments are hereby neutralized.
Exactly.
Too many people look to the Bible as an exact roadmap of history. They fail to see, through their narrow-mindedness, that the people living several thousand years ago didn't know much about the whys and hows of nature and made up some God to answer their questions. The Old Testament is tantamount to myths (with some actual historical references interspersed.
And, to Creationists who suggest that God surely must have created life:
http://www.accessexcellence.org/WN/NM/miller.html
Actually if you read it you would probably see that people are pretty much exactly like they are today. The only thing we are more advanced in today is technology and most people don't have a clue as to how anything technical works so the vast majority of people are no different than they were back in biblical times. Just look at all the lessons int he Bible and they all still apply today. There are still criminals, lynchings, war, murder, rape, incest, adultery, revenge, love, money, power. The Bible is so very timeless.
That is in reply to this " people living several thousand years ago didn't know much about the whys and hows of nature and made up some God to answer their questions. "
People knew a heck of alot more about how things worked several thousand years ago than a whole lot of people including some of you do today. Noah build a big boat with his bare hands.How many of you could do that? How man people today could make a sword out of some iron ore? Don't think people fromt housands of years ago knew nothing about how things work. In todays world most people would be totally helpless on how to get food even, if packaged goods weren't available at a store.
People knew a heck of alot more about how things worked several thousand years ago than a whole lot of people including some of you do today. Noah build a big boat with his bare hands.How many of you could do that? How man people today could make a sword out of some iron ore? Don't think people fromt housands of years ago knew nothing about how things work. In todays world most people would be totally helpless on how to get food even, if packaged goods weren't available at a store.
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
You actually believe Noah really built an ark???
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
You actually believe Noah really built an ark???
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
I love how you put words in the oppositions mouth. Creationists don't have one theory on the age of the world...most put it somewhere around 10,000 with some going higher or lower.
In any case, we have records going back 3500 years huh? Amazing considering we've been around for 250,000 years according to the most conservative evolutionary timelines. You'd think there'd be older records. Odd, huh?
Creation is also a theory...according to you, genius, you should believe creation theory because it's a theory.
Tower of Babel and consequent social isolation. Next.
Been answered a thousand times. Accounting for only animals which can't survive in or on water, only 37% of the Ark would have been filled. There's plenty of research on this which is why more intelligent evolutionists don't bring this up.
Evolution is the contrary. Rather than a rational explanation, evolution seeks the most plausible scenario in which man is placed at the pinnacle of all life forms. It's simple hubris. Who wants to admit they aren't the ultimate force in the universe? Not many. Scientists in particular, would be most reticent to accept a back seat to a higher power since they all have the belief, acknowledged or not, that what they are doing is the most significant thing a person can do.
And you call creationists zealots when you, yourself, have shown a complete lack of an open mind and display more zealotry for the theory of evolution than most die hard Christians I know display for creationism.
Cave paintings 35,000 years old have been found.
But Creationists deem it Creation Science. They preach it as if it were fact, not a theory.
Umm...you're claiming some symbolic story in the Bible is the basis for multiple races of humans?
This line of debate is moot as there was no ark. Again, it was just a symbolic story. While there may have been great floods in the past, there was no ark upon which two of every animal were stored. The story of Noah was lifted from other culture's epic tales of great floods and placed into the Bible.
Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_disp.htm
- Oct 30, 2000
- 42,589
- 5
- 0
Treat the bible as a work of historical fiction.
Stories exist to explain happenings. Many of these stories were passed down verbally over generations before being actually logged.
Stories exist to explain happenings. Many of these stories were passed down verbally over generations before being actually logged.
For those who believe in creation, I have a few questions:
Do you agree that there is evidence of evolution (micro-evolution)? Example: Bacterias, viruses adapting to our antibiotics and cold medicine?
Do you agree with the ruff estimates on when Earth formed and when life first cell life started here? 5-4 billion years ago.
Would you then agree that based on those 2 above there is a chance that all life on earth evolved slowly (over 4 billion years) from those first few 1 cell organisms?
Nice Bugs but Star Trek's Worf said it much more simpler: "When Time Becomes A Loop".
When Time Becomes A LoopWhen Time Becomes A LoopWhen Time Becomes A LoopWhen Time Becomes A
Let me add some things here that a lot of folks unless they study the bible would not know. One God was not created, he always was. A hard concept to grasp for the human mind. Mainly because in humanity everything has a beginning and an end. So to the natural mind a being which had no beginning and has no end is hard to fathom. The bible is only a record of mankind. Not all of the the history of the earth.
Genesis
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
The earth was here before man. How long? Who knows. Scripture doesn't point that out. These first 3 scriptures are pretty deep. To sum it up, the earth was here but in a state of confusion. That's what the word void means in the hebrew language. Another thing is that the days spoken of was not the 24 hour time period we know of. As a matter of fact the bible states in Peter that a day unto God is like a thousand years.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
This verse is from the original King James translation. That word replenish is sometimes translated fill. The hebrew meaning of that word means to put back. So we can deduct that the earth was once populated with something other than us. Many scholars believe that there was a Pre Adam era that scripture makes references too but never goes into detail. Many think the bible debucts the theory of evolution when in fact it doesn't. But it gives an explanation as to the beginning as being God. Science has often said the beginning was from a big bang. Could that big bang have been God. Hey I'm not going to tell you one way to believe or not but to those who discount the possibility of creation has not considered all things possible.
Genesis
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
The earth was here before man. How long? Who knows. Scripture doesn't point that out. These first 3 scriptures are pretty deep. To sum it up, the earth was here but in a state of confusion. That's what the word void means in the hebrew language. Another thing is that the days spoken of was not the 24 hour time period we know of. As a matter of fact the bible states in Peter that a day unto God is like a thousand years.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
This verse is from the original King James translation. That word replenish is sometimes translated fill. The hebrew meaning of that word means to put back. So we can deduct that the earth was once populated with something other than us. Many scholars believe that there was a Pre Adam era that scripture makes references too but never goes into detail. Many think the bible debucts the theory of evolution when in fact it doesn't. But it gives an explanation as to the beginning as being God. Science has often said the beginning was from a big bang. Could that big bang have been God. Hey I'm not going to tell you one way to believe or not but to those who discount the possibility of creation has not considered all things possible.
Therein lies the fault of your reasoning. The Bible is NOT a record of mankind. It's a guide for man's spirituality. It was never meant to be taken literally. It was never meant to be used as scientific evidence. It's filled with stories culled from various cultures over centuries. It's meant to instill a righteous behavior in man that will cause him to lead a life dedicated to worshipping God and praying for an eternal life in Heaven.
Nothing more.
That's the problem with Creationists. They distort the Bible's contents to fit their ultra-fundamentalist views and then try to push those beliefs upon others (look at the push to get Creation "Science" taught in schools.)
Think for yourself! Don't take a book written by generations of men as the literal word of some God.
Hmmmm...........the bible says there is NO spirituality without him. A very large percenatge of scripture is literal. No offense I know you've never read the bible. I can tell from your post. If you had read it there is no way you would come to the conclusion of some God. One thing is for sure, the God of the bible is very, very well defined. No offense but you don't know what your talking about.
Bzzzzt! WRONG!
<--- 12 years of Catholic school, received 5 of the sacraments, Scripture classes in high school.
I do think I know what I'm talking about.
I'm not denying the Bible says there's no spirituality without God. I'm denying the supposition that most of the Bible is fact. There was no Noah's Ark. There was no Adam and Eve in a garden eating a forbidden fruit offered up by a serpent.
It's all symbolism. And, until you and other fundamentalists realize that, you'll never really understand the Bible.
Even Jesus spoke using symbolism.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Microevolution is a scientific fact as it has been observed and replicated countless time. There has nevere been one observed instance of macro evolution.
No, though, it's possible within the context of scripture. Evolution, however, is not.
Sure...if you can give me an explanation of where that one cell organism came from.
Might have to do with the fact that humans only live for about 75 years a time...not hundreds of thousands of years.
Of course it's possible within the context of scripture. Fundamentalists will find the answer to ANYTHING in the Bible. How is it not possible for evolution to have started 4-5billion years ago?
Sure...if you can give me an explanation of where that one cell organism came from.
Here's a start:
http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Because Jesus used some parables...the entire Bible is symbolism? Consider that parables (symbolism) is used to explain a point in a graphic way. What "point" are we to gather from the Old Testament if it's symbolic? It doesn't present itself as symbolic. There are chronicles of family lineage...are those symbolic of something?
And, by the way, Catholicism is basically a cult offshoot of true Christianity. No wonder you're so screwed up.
Where did I say that? Nice way to try and twist my words.
I never denied there was some historical truth in the Old Testament. However, the big picture (the concept you fail to comprehend) is that the stories in the Old Testament are simply stories. The Hebrews were no different from, say, the ancient Romans or even Native Americans with tall tales and myths handed down from one generation to the next. Not much more than the morals behind even Aesop's Fables.
And, by the way, ALL religions are cults, so, what's your point?
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Cool. Hey, publish a Bible where the history and symbolism are separated by ink color or something so the rest of us can be in on this priveleged info it seems only you possess.
Protestant Christianity is not a cult. We believe the Bible is the literal, infallible Word of God as defined by itself. When people like you start picking and choosing which parts you want to believe is when your religeon becomes a cult.
I'm not going to give you a play-by-play. I highly recommend you take some real Bible study courses. Not those offered by ultra-fundamentalists but, rather, one that actually goes into discourse in the real meaning of the words and the stories and their origination. I'm sure someone like you will be shocked and scoff at the suggestion that some of the stories in the Old Testament were lifted from other cultures, esp. during those times when the Jews were held as slaves. For example, the story of the flood in the Bible is predated by the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh.
Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
Try again.
HeroofPelinor you are all that is wrong with religion in this country. You've taken the Bible to be more than it is. Let's face the facts:
1. Adam and Eve never existed, and they never got kicked out of the Garden of Eden (which also doesn't exist), and they are not the reason why mankind is sinful.
2. God did not create the entire earth in 7 days, and the first "humans" looked nothing like humans do today. Look at fossil records and explain that to me you moron. It's clearly obvious to even the dumbest people on the planet that we as humans have evolved over time.
3. There is an undeniable amount of evidence that evolution is a real process that occurs, even the Catholic Church accepts this today. You really must be hiding under a rock to not belive this. Creationist pick and choose fossil records to discredit the lack of transitional fossil records, and it actually ends up hurting their argument because not only do they not agree on certain fossils but they cannot come to any real conclusions.
4. For all we know Jesus could have been some phony magician playing tricks on the people of the time. Look at how many people David Blaine is able to trick these days, now go back a thousand years and imagine how stupid people were back then and how influenced by religion and "miracles" they were.
5. The Bible was not written by God or inspired by him either, it was written by real people who took collections of stories and put them down to paper. Obviously many of these stories were verbally passed down, which means they contain inaccuracies which shows that they couldn't have been inspired by god if they contain inaccuracies.
6. shutup and stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Provide some real facts to back up your claims.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/cre_args.html I suggest you take a look at that webpage, it has a lot of great info.
1. Adam and Eve never existed, and they never got kicked out of the Garden of Eden (which also doesn't exist), and they are not the reason why mankind is sinful.
2. God did not create the entire earth in 7 days, and the first "humans" looked nothing like humans do today. Look at fossil records and explain that to me you moron. It's clearly obvious to even the dumbest people on the planet that we as humans have evolved over time.
3. There is an undeniable amount of evidence that evolution is a real process that occurs, even the Catholic Church accepts this today. You really must be hiding under a rock to not belive this. Creationist pick and choose fossil records to discredit the lack of transitional fossil records, and it actually ends up hurting their argument because not only do they not agree on certain fossils but they cannot come to any real conclusions.
4. For all we know Jesus could have been some phony magician playing tricks on the people of the time. Look at how many people David Blaine is able to trick these days, now go back a thousand years and imagine how stupid people were back then and how influenced by religion and "miracles" they were.
5. The Bible was not written by God or inspired by him either, it was written by real people who took collections of stories and put them down to paper. Obviously many of these stories were verbally passed down, which means they contain inaccuracies which shows that they couldn't have been inspired by god if they contain inaccuracies.
6. shutup and stop arguing for the sake of arguing. Provide some real facts to back up your claims.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/cre_args.html I suggest you take a look at that webpage, it has a lot of great info.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter