Everytime I post a job opening

[Exterous]

If you're more worried about the suit someone is wearing than their abilities (unless you're talking about a high-end customer facing job), you shouldn't be on the interview panel.

I'm not going to disagree with you. I wish someone could come in with some basketball shorts, a wife-beater and 4 days without shaving but that's not the way the world works.

Yeah you'd be surprised. I interviewed one gentleman who was wearing a button down shirt that was not only too tight but too short. There was notable puckering between the buttons and he was not wearing an undershirt. When he leaned back in the chair the shirt rose up to his belly button. He was....not the skinniest person and was quite hairy

the automated BS resume filters now do not ignore requirements.

here is my redacted resume. you be the judge, or offer me a job i dont hate.

View attachment 4942

2 page resumes seem to be acceptable now or at least in the IT world. I do have some thoughts but with the caveat that we work in different industries that may have different trends in resume preference:
I'd keep the strengths\skills section as long as you don't list everything. Don't make it like the people I see who list every single piece of software they have ever used in their entire life. If the job description is detailed, try and customize it to their Required and Desired qualifications.
Definitely keep the Certs and Courses section.
Job duties could use more specifics. "Successfully perform a range of services for customers" is way to be vague to tell anyone anything useful
"Collaborate effectively with a wide range of ethnicities and cultures" is odd. If that is something that is useful to say in your field I would word it differently and tied in a specific role\accomplishment: "Successfully collaborated with local experts in multinational drilling expedition in Cambodia enabling the project to come in on budget and without disrupting residents"
"Coordinate equipment...to maximize resource utilization..." Are there metrics for that? Did it result in a financial savings, allowed projects to come in ahead of schedule and\or under budget? Enabled you guys to meet an aggressive schedule?

 

[brianmanahan]

I'll be honest - I don't care to play stupid games like writing a cover letter.. Here's my resume. Here's my history/application. Interview me if you want. Cover letters are outdated just like reference lists. In my last 3 high-level jobs I haven't provided either.

agreed, i don't even bother with cover letters. although no job i've ever wanted has ever made them mandatory.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

agreed, i don't even bother with cover letters. although no job i've ever wanted has ever made them mandatory.

Especially with the reference list for me since I'm introverted.

"Hey uhh... dur hur... do you errr mind durr... being on my reference list and telling people I'm awesome if they call you asking if I'm awesome?"

That is such a stupid game that I never played - and I'm so glad I never did.

 

[brianmanahan]

I mean when it comes to getting jobs - that's another thing people should invest in... a decent suit.

eh, depends on the job. people don't really care about the suits for software developer jobs anymore, and a lot of people don't even wear one to the interview.

i've owned 1 suit my entire life, a complete suit i picked up for 100$ from a discount department store. and i tied the tie in 2001 and have not retied it since.

 

[brianmanahan]

Especially with the reference list for me since I'm introverted.

"Hey uhh... dur hur... do you errr mind durr... being on my reference list and telling people I'm awesome if they call you asking if I'm awesome?"

That is such a stupid game that I never played - and I'm so glad I never did.

oh yeah asking people to be a reference is super awkward, i hate it

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

eh, depends on the job. people don't really care about the suits for software developer jobs anymore, and a lot of people don't even wear one to the interview.

i've owned 1 suit my entire life, a complete suit i picked up for 100$ from a discount department store. and i tied the tie in 2001 and have not retied it since.

My side has been with consulting - which relates to facing clients.... So it's probably more expected... Even though our daily dress attire is business casual (slacks + dress shirt) I still wear the full suit + tie If I interview.

For my newest job (which I practically blogged about here on ATOT) I worked with a recruiter. The recruiter basically walked me through everything "So today you will be interviewing with Bill. He's a real shit shooter and likes to chat blah blah blah" He basically gave me the breakdown of how to act for every interaction I had.All of my interviews except the last were over the phone - but for the last one in-person I made sure to ask... Is wearing a suit really necessary? He said absolutely. I went down and grabbed a new one (since my old ones didn't fit right)... Ended up getting the job over 2 other candidates.

Also FWIW with my latest job - I'm basically exiting consulting and entering sales.... So commissions++;

It definitely pays is all I'm saying. I'd rather invest $300 in a suit than me being unemployed for 3 more months (though I enjoyed my 3 months off).

 

[Chaotic42]

I've been called and interviewed as a reference for other people several times, with a couple of the interviews being long and detailed. I tend to be a work extrovert though, so maybe people aren't afraid to ask. As far as dress goes, I've worked with great people who dress like crap, crappy people who dress like crap, great people who dress nicely, and crappy people who dress nicely. I guess we all have our mental lines we draw - if I see someone at work in a suit or a t-shirt, I raise my eyebrow, but I can't really judge them one way or the other.

As far as the dude with his gut hanging out, that sounds like a friend of mine. He'd lean back in his chair at meetings and it was just a show 😛

 

[Red Squirrel]

Especially with the reference list for me since I'm introverted.

"Hey uhh... dur hur... do you errr mind durr... being on my reference list and telling people I'm awesome if they call you asking if I'm awesome?"

That is such a stupid game that I never played - and I'm so glad I never did.

Ugh I always hate having to find references too. It's also an indirect way of telling your current employer that you're trying to jump ship, because normally when they ask for references it's past employers including your current that they want. You can't just put any random person.

 

[skyking]

I've read and appreciated those job offers you've posted up over the years. None of them were close enough for me to apply for, but it was fun to think about 🙂

 

[glenn1]

I don't disqualify people for it but it is a strike against you compared to even a bad or really short cover letter. We need attention to detail so I am looking for clues to that along the way. Perhaps I would feel differently if we were having a hard time finding qualified people or only had a few applicants per posting. On one of the more recent ones there were 78 applicants to go through.

As the hiring manager you're certainly entitled to employ whatever heuristics you want in your hiring decisions. Linking "detail oriented" to something like a cover letter is a very tenuous smoke test of someone's ability to be "detail oriented" however.

"This job involves me expecting you to catch the one typo in a 600 page data dictionary so therefore prove your diligence by producing a completely unrelated deliverable like a cover letter" seems like a poor means of identifying someone who would catch that typo. Unless one of the job responsibilities is actually "produce a cover letters to clients upon demand" then that screening tool seems basically worthless.

 

[Sukhoi]

You require a cover letter? That's so 2003. Seriously, that's one requirement that makes you seem like an out-of-touch old man. You're missing a lot of younger higher performing candidates because of that, unless you're intentionally trying to hire an old man.

 

[Chaotic42]

You require a cover letter? That's so 2003. Seriously, that's one requirement that makes you seem like an out-of-touch old man. You're missing a lot of younger higher performing candidates because of that, unless you're intentionally trying to hire an old man.

I think you have to balance that with the idea that if these younger high-performing folks are so stubborn or cocky that they won't write a cover letter when asked, you're also avoiding potential headaches when they don't want to do whatever task once their on board. There's always a trade off on employee ability vs attitude, but some folks just aren't worth the headache at any price.

I'm not a fan of the "I'm a star and too good for your mundane tasks" mindset.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think you have to balance that with the idea that if these younger high-performing folks are so stubborn or cocky that they won't write a cover letter when asked, you're also avoiding potential headaches when they don't want to do whatever task once their on board. There's always a trade off on employee ability vs attitude, but some folks just aren't worth the headache at any price.

I'm not a fan of the "I'm a star and too good for your mundane tasks" mindset.

Nah, (for me at least) it has to do with the fact that I don't have the time to draft up cover letters for every opportunity.

With all the bullshit of job applications these days - plenty of "opportunities" are really just bullshit that they either don't actually intend to fill - or they are simply put up knowing full well that they already have someone internally that is taking the spot.

So what does that leave? As others said here, plenty of times you have to do a "shoot fish in a barrel" approach and do mass applications for many positions. I don't have the time to create full 1-page tailored cover letters for every position. Can you imagine spending time to make a nice targeted cover letter all for it to be completely worthless since they aren't actually intending to fill the position publicly?

 

[Exterous]

You require a cover letter? That's so 2003. Seriously, that's one requirement that makes you seem like an out-of-touch old man. You're missing a lot of younger higher performing candidates because of that, unless you're intentionally trying to hire an old man.

And yet here I sit, with a team of diverse age groups ranging from 23 to 58 who are outperforming other teams inside the company and competing organizations.

As an aside the 55 year old I hired is kicking ass. Hardworking, dedicated and really knows his shit. But ageism is cool in IT amiright?

 

[TheSlamma]

This is the reason unemployment numbers don't really mean much to me, there are the unemployed and then there is the unemployable and there are a lot of the latter.

 

[glenn1]

And yet here I sit, with a team of diverse age groups ranging from 23 to 58 who are outperforming other teams inside the company and competing organizations.

As an aside the 55 year old I hired is kicking ass. Hardworking, dedicated and really knows his shit. But ageism is cool in IT amiright?

I'm sure your team excels at creating cover letters.

 

[vi edit]

I guess that's one nice thing about working a highly specialized application space. I can name drop about half a dozen apps/specialties and get immediate callbacks. Can't bullshit your way through my field.

 

[ctbaars]

I'm just wondering, Exterous, do your employees have time to post on ATOT too?

 

[highland145]

I'm just wondering, Exterous, do your employees have time to post on ATOT too?

Do as I say, not as I do.....damn it.

 

[Tweak155]

I would have to really, really want to check a position out in order to complete a cover letter. Otherwise, my preference will always be to skip work that presents no obvious value to me. Simply requesting the cover letter does not indicate to me why it's worth my time creating one when I already put the effort into creating my resume. Initially to me it would be a sign that the company values processes over reaching a goal. Make the cover letter optional at the very least.

Having previously been the guy doing the hiring, I never requested cover letters and when they were provided without request, I'd only browse it if it was visually short. Otherwise I'd focus looking for valuable previous experience on the resume which is intended to be the medium with which to present your value to begin with.

 

[brianmanahan]

I'm just wondering, Exterous, do your employees have time to post on ATOT too?

 

[jpiniero]

Especially in this economy, for anything half decent you're going to get hundreds of resumes; and just by the percentages you're bound to get at least one if not multiple that would fit the need. So if you want to use the cover letter as something to help make the decision, sure, but I think it's still less common now to care about it.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Especially in this economy, for anything half decent you're going to get hundreds of resumes; and just by the percentages you're bound to get at least one if not multiple that would fit the need. So if you want to use the cover letter as something to help make the decision, sure, but I think it's still less common now to care about it.

"In this economy"?

Don't we have low employment? I mean I'm not here to debate/argue but from what I've heard it's not like there is an ample supply of 100 qualified resumes that hit hiring manager's desks?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'll be honest - I don't care to play stupid games like writing a cover letter.. Here's my resume. Here's my history/application. Interview me if you want. Cover letters are outdated just like reference lists. In my last 3 high-level jobs I haven't provided either.

This.

I don’t do cover letters - that sounds like the requirement of a government agency or an HR department with more time than common sense. My resume has everything you need to know - if you don’t want to interview me because I won’t submit a form letter, that’s fine by me because that tells me I probably dodged a bullet.

Reference lists are also dumb - does anyone think I’d put anyone on the list who would say bad things? Oh, I know, HR thinks they can “trick” references into spilling dirt. Good luck with that, since everyone on my reference list has decades of experience and all are much smarter than HR drones.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

LOL those are the worst systems in the world. When I am looking at a job and it seems interesting, and I click the apply button and it takes me to their "portal" where I have to create an account, that is an immediate tab close and automatic disqualification of that company as a potential employer.

Me too. Don’t post your job on Careerbuilder, Indeed, LinkedIn, etc. if I have to then spend 30-45 minutes filling out all my information on your own site. When that happens, I close the browser.