Everything he touches turns to sheet

[Greenman]

Hypothetical, if the fake electors that attempted to alter the state votes had succeeded in their attempts and the SC upheld their decision, would you affirm that Trump 'won' the election in 2020?

If the legal challenges were upheld that would mean the vote was tainted, and in that case then yes, I would accept that Trump won.

 

[Perknose]

If the legal challenges were upheld that would mean the vote was tainted, and in that case then yes, I would accept that Trump won.

But they weren't, not one of them, which you damn well know. So, does this mean that the 7 million more Americans who voted for Joe, giving him a him a 306 to 232 electoral college landslide victory, a victory which Mike Pence his own damn self agreed he had no legal standing to overturn . . . does all this mean that YOU, as a citizen of the United States of America, accept Joseph Robinette Biden Jr as YOUR President?

 

[Indus]

If the legal challenges were upheld that would mean the vote was tainted, and in that case then yes, I would accept that Trump won.

It doesn't matter what you believe

IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT YOU CAN PROVE !!

 

[fskimospy]

If the legal challenges were upheld that would mean the vote was tainted, and in that case then yes, I would accept that Trump won.

So is the idea here that you’re going to say Trump didn’t attempt a coup and then refuse to explain your reasoning, even in the face of clearly articulated arguments to the contrary?

If so that’s your right but it would be helpful to know that you plan on refusing to answer.

 

[fskimospy]

But they weren't, not one of them, which you damn well know. So, does this mean that the 7 million more Americans who voted for Joe, giving him a him a 306 to 232 electoral college landslide victory, a victory which Mike Pence his own damn self agreed he had no legal standing to overturn . . . does all this mean that YOU, as a citizen of the United States of America, accept Joseph Robinette Biden Jr as YOUR President?

I think he accepts that Biden won the election, he’s just balking at admitting Trump attempted a coup because of the obvious implications for his continued support of the Republican Party.

It’s hard to vote in a democracy for a party that tried to end democracy so it’s easier to just pretend that never happened.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

But they weren't, not one of them, which you damn well know. So, does this mean that the 7 million more Americans who voted for Joe, giving him a him a 306 to 232 electoral college landslide victory, a victory which Mike Pence his own damn self agreed he had no legal standing to overturn . . . does all this mean that YOU, as a citizen of the United States of America, accept Joseph Robinette Biden Jr as YOUR President?

Easy see below:

 

[MomentsofSanity]

This seems relevant...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658819672010285060

Didn't know @Fanatical Meat was part of the Lincoln Project!

 

[Ajay]

I think he accepts that Biden won the election, he’s just balking at admitting Trump attempted a coup because of the obvious implications for his continued support of the Republican Party.

It’s hard to vote in a democracy for a party that tried to end democracy so it’s easier to just pretend that never happened.

Well, it failed, and no one from congress or the VP were injured/taken hostage. Given that, I suppose it’s easy to write off in some people’s minds. It’s likely that many people don’t think that Trump was seriously attempting a coup. In some sense, if you are a more normal republican, how do you move on without writing off the whole series of events?

At this point, I’ve put that in my rear view mirror, rather than dwell on it. I just hope law enforcement has learned the necessary lessons in order to prevent such a breach in the future. Sad as it is that the 'people house' now needs this kind of extra security.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, it failed, and no one from congress or the VP were injured/taken hostage. Given that, I suppose it’s easy to write off in some people’s minds. It’s likely that many people don’t think that Trump was seriously attempting a coup. In some sense, if you are a more normal republican, how do you move on without writing off the whole series of events?

At this point, I’ve put that in my rear view mirror, rather than dwell on it. I just hope law enforcement has learned the necessary lessons in order to prevent such a breach in the future. Sad as it is that the 'people house' now needs this kind of extra security.

You definitely shouldn't put it in your rear view mirror - a coup that goes unpunished is practice for the next coup.

I strongly suspect the special counsel will be indicting multiple people involved in the scheme but what's most important is that he indicts Trump himself. He needs to be made an example of.

 

[Ajay]

You definitely shouldn't put it in your rear view mirror - a coup that goes unpunished is practice for the next coup.

I strongly suspect the special counsel will be indicting multiple people involved in the scheme but what's most important is that he indicts Trump himself. He needs to be made an example of.

It’s not my job to punish them, that's up to law enforcement and the courts. I’m not letting seditionists live rent free in my mind. There is no danger of me forgetting what happened.

At least Tricky Dicky has the good sense to fall on his sword and back far, far away. Trump thrives on chaos, so he needs to face steeper consequences. Many of the seditionists have been facing consequences in the courts. So, it’s a good start.

 

[Greenman]

So is the idea here that you’re going to say Trump didn’t attempt a coup and then refuse to explain your reasoning, even in the face of clearly articulated arguments to the contrary?

If so that’s your right but it would be helpful to know that you plan on refusing to answer.

coup d'état​

noun​

ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä
ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä,

-də-

variants or coup d'etat
pluralcoups d'état or coups d'etat ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä
ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä,

-də-
also coup d'états or coup d'etats
Synonyms of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group.
There is your answer. There was no violence, the challenges were in the courts. The unauthorized electors may or may not have committed a crime, I don't know as I haven't followed that story. Trump asking Pence not to certify the election is a non story. Everything I've read say's Pence's part of the process is ceremonial. At worst it would have ended up in court.
You can call it a coup if you like, but the simple reality is that Pence didn't have the power to reject the election results.

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

There is nothing there that says the VP can unilaterally reject the results. The entire thing was a non story because the conditions that allow it don't exist. Trump can and did make all the noise he wants, and Pence can pretend he did the honorable thing, but the end result was never in question as the rules governing the situation don't allow it.

 

[fskimospy]

coup d'état​

noun​

ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä
ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä,

-də-

variants or coup d'etat
pluralcoups d'état or coups d'etat ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä
ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌtä,

-də-
also coup d'états or coup d'etats
Synonyms of coup d'état
: a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics
especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group.
There is your answer. There was no violence, the challenges were in the courts. The unauthorized electors may or may not have committed a crime, I don't know as I haven't followed that story. Trump asking Pence not to certify the election is a none story. Everything I've read say's Pence's part of the process is ceremonial. At worst it would have ended up in court.
You can call it a coup if you like, but the simple reality is that Pence didn't have the power to reject the election results.

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.
There is nothing there that says the VP can unilaterally reject the results. The entire thing was a non story because the conditions that allow it don't exist. Trump can and did make all the noise he wants, and Pence can pretend he did the honorable thing, but the end result was never in question as the rules governing the situation don't allow it.

This has already been discussed and refuted.

Self-coup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A self-coup, also called an autocoup (from the Spanish: autogolpe), or coup from the top, is a form of coup d'état in which a nation's head, having come to power through legal means, tries to stay in power through illegal means.

1) Trump came to power through legal means.
2) Trump attempted to stay in power through illegal means.

Do you acknowledge this meets the stated definition for a self-coup, which means Trump attempted a coup?

Also, this is exactly my point! Pence DIDN'T have the legal authority to do what Trump repeatedly and deliberately tried to get him to do! Trump failed, but that doesn't mean he didn't attempt a coup!

 

[MrSquished]

I know most of us here understand Greenman is unreachable and the enemy, it's just sad some people choose to remain naive about the reality of tens of millions of people like him in this in this country who would gladly steal our freedoms from right underneath us, and part of how they do that is denying reality over and over and over again. It's pretty sad.

 

[compcons]

"... There was no violence, the challenges were in the courts."

What?!?

So along with ignoring Trump asking for more votes, dozens of failed legal challenges, etc., you missed a fucking VIOLENT riot at the capital where Congress was certifying the election (even though it was symbolic)? And of course you choose to not follow other related stories and facts since the inevitable conclusion makes you uncomfortable. I get it, being a snowflake is hard.

Do you think a a coup is a one day, isolated event or something? You don't realize that all of these actions were part of said coup.

You are willfully ignorant and probably a liar. As Squished said, there are millions just like you who are are unreachable. We liberals are just too stupid to realize it. The need to try to reason with someone who refuses reason is truly what is broken with the liberal mind. I suffer from it but at least I recognize it now.

 

[Greenman]

This has already been discussed and refuted.

Self-coup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1) Trump came to power through legal means.
2) Trump attempted to stay in power through illegal means.

Do you acknowledge this meets the stated definition for a self-coup, which means Trump attempted a coup?

Which of these things did Trump do?
The leader may dissolve or render powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assume extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts, and having the head of government assume dictatorial powers.

What I saw was Trump challenge the election results, and openly ask Pence to do something he didn't have the ability to do. That's not a coup.
My hunch is that Trump actually believed that he won because his hugely inflated ego wouldn't allow him to accept the fact that he lost.

 

[JD50]

I know most of us here understand Greenman is unreachable and the enemy, it's just sad some people choose to remain naive about the reality of tens of millions of people like him in this in this country who would gladly steal our freedoms from right underneath us, and part of how they do that is denying reality over and over and over again. It's pretty sad.

Greenman's mind won't be changed obviously, but other people are reading these threads. It's important to not let his bullshit go unchallenged.

 

[JD50]

Which of these things did Trump do?
The leader may dissolve or render powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assume extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts, and having the head of government assume dictatorial powers.

What I saw was Trump challenge the election results, and openly ask Pence to do something he didn't have the ability to do. That's not a coup.
My hunch is that Trump actually believed that he won because his hugely inflated ego wouldn't allow him to accept the fact that he lost.

The word you're looking for is "illegal".

 

[fskimospy]

Which of these things did Trump do?
The leader may dissolve or render powerless the national legislature and unlawfully assume extraordinary powers not granted under normal circumstances. Other measures may include annulling the nation's constitution, suspending civil courts, and having the head of government assume dictatorial powers.

That is describing what happens when self-coups are SUCCESSFUL. We don't know what Trump would have done had he succeeded but that is simply not part of the definition.

What I saw was Trump challenge the election results, and openly ask Pence to do something he didn't have the ability to do. That's not a coup.
My hunch is that Trump actually believed that he won because his hugely inflated ego wouldn't allow him to accept the fact that he lost.

Yes, thank you for proving my point. Pence didn't have the ability to reject valid electoral votes, as rejecting them would be illegal.

Therefore:

1) Trump came to power through legal means in the election of 2016.
2) In January of 2021 Trump attempted to have Pence commit an illegal act (throwing out valid electoral votes) in order to stay in power.

Now that by your own words you accept that Trump attempted to have Pence commit an illegal act so that Trump could stay in power, presumably you agree that Trump attempted a self-coup. Can you confirm?

 

[MrSquished]

Greenman's mind won't be changed obviously, but other people are reading these threads. It's important to not let his bullshit go unchallenged.

it's important for people to understand dialogue with these people is fruitless (they are not smart as some claim) and to understand who they are, so I'm just making sure that is known, because it is obvious some don't. We don't need people to not understand the enemies.

 

[Perknose]

I know most of us here understand Greenman is unreachable and the enemy . . .

Hey man. I disagree with Greenman majorly. And I remain disappointed that he won't confront the specific questions that Eski asks him, but . . . often your level of vitriol goes past what I personally feel comfortable with. When I have my mod hat on, I have striven to protect the ability of posters to royally take the piss out of others here in this forum as I know, as a poster, how frustrated one can get with others here. But there are always limits. Always. Consider this my personal plea for you to moderate your anger, and how you chose to express it here.

 

[Muse]

Had to wonder why CNN would stoop so low as to host a Trump event. Of course, I have only seen response to it, I'd never subject myself to that decayed hunk of former protoplasm. I imagine I'd hold my nose for a presidential debate, though (on OTA network TV).

 

[Meghan54]

Had to wonder why CNN would stoop so low as to host a Trump event. Of course, I have only seen response to it, I'd never subject myself to that decayed hunk of former protoplasm. I imagine I'd hold my nose for a presidential debate, though (on OTA network TV).

Being run by a Trumpanzee isn’t enough? You need more reasons?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This seems relevant...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658819672010285060

Didn't know @Fanatical Meat was part of the Lincoln Project!

I should, I know exactly how Deplorable’s think.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If the legal challenges were upheld that would mean the vote was tainted, and in that case then yes, I would accept that Trump won.

So you're cool with Biden/Hillary/Some dem doing the same? Sending faithless electors to battleground states to overturn an election that a Republican should win?

 

[UNCjigga]

Not sure where else to post this…but this seemed appropriate. Chris Licht is out at CNN.

CNN CEO Chris Licht Ousted After Tumultuous Year

The cable news chief's departure came after a series of negative headlines about his stewardship of the cable news channel.

www.hollywoodreporter.com