Everyone should be buddhist.

[Babbles]

I've been a practicing Buddhist (Soto to get a bit more specific) for about six years, and I am in no way a knowledgeable "expert" but I do think I have learned one or two things along the way.

First, I would definitely consider Buddhism a religion. However the western understanding of religion differs a bit from the eastern understanding of a religion, but nevertheless just because the understandings are different should not imply it is (or is not) a religion.

Secondly, Buddhism is as fragmented as any other religion out there. You can't say "Buddhist believe in this and that" just like you couldn't make blanket statements that all "Christians believe in this and that." People mentioned reincarnation, and it totally depends on what school of Buddhism you adhere to. The Tibetans, for example, do believe in a sort of reincarnation - the Dali Lama is a reincarnation of the Avalokiteshvara Buddha (Kwan Yin, Kannon). Many Mahayana schools believe that you will eventually reach "nirvana" through many births, a sort of reincarnation. However I am not sure exactly the details of how they believe in their reincarnation since Shakyamuni Buddha basically said there is no Atman (i.e. soul, but there can be Buddha-nature which is like an Atman . . . it gets convoluted). In the Chan/Zen schools reincarnation is more like a 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust' sort of reincarnation; your body decomposes, turns into soil, becomes plants, consumed by animals, consumed by people therefore you are "becoming" a new person thru this process.

Karma is another very complicated beast altogether. I think the Hindu religion weighs it more so with the typical idea of "what comes around, goes around" as how most people see karma. Karma in the Buddhist sense is less depended on some concept of fate, but rather based on your immediate actions . . . well that sounds like how many people do see karma; it is such a complicated thing it is best to just ignore that whole concept.

Buddhism is really a very complicated religion, however it seems as if most people who are unfamiliar with it seem to think it is rather "simple" and if you are nice and chant Om Mani Padme Hum over and over again you are good to go. I definitely think people should explore it as an option, but to simply state that "everyone should be Buddhist" is rather irresponsible.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

This seems to be a more modern interpretation of Buddhism. Old Buddhism, prior Chan I guess, there really was a soul that accrued karma one way or other and was sent to hell if you were bad. There the soul would be punished and then ou'd be reborn.

I'll bet you're Chinese. $100 says i'm right.

Show me where in any Buddhist text that says ANYTHING remotely like this. The Buddha NEVER talked about death, not once. He was constantly asked about death in fact, and he used this analogy 'if you were shot by a poison arrow, would you want to be treated right away... or would you demand to know who shot you, where did they shoot you from, what kind of man shot you, what was the arrow made of, etc beofre treating' you?/

That was his response to seeking God, or the answer to the purpose of life. Get your facts straight.

And what do you think 'live good or go and suffer in hell is' if not a purpose of life?

LOL i've known many people like you. You're the type that reads a few thing about Buddhism, and then discovers some 'enlightening' concepts, and then go preaching around to other people how great an idea it is, all in the while thinking how special you are because you're the few that discovered it. My advice to you, go read some more and hopefully you'll get over this elitism.

 

[Mo0o]

All this debate aside I just wanna say I think BUddhists are awesome because they rarely stir up trouble with other people.

 

[LtPage1]

Who cares what religion it is, as long as everyone converts. I'd be 100% behind that, provided I get converted too.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

This seems to be a more modern interpretation of Buddhism. Old Buddhism, prior Chan I guess, there really was a soul that accrued karma one way or other and was sent to hell if you were bad. There the soul would be punished and then ou'd be reborn.

I'll bet you're Chinese. $100 says i'm right.

Show me where in any Buddhist text that says ANYTHING remotely like this. The Buddha NEVER talked about death, not once. He was constantly asked about death in fact, and he used this analogy 'if you were shot by a poison arrow, would you want to be treated right away... or would you demand to know who shot you, where did they shoot you from, what kind of man shot you, what was the arrow made of, etc beofre treating' you?/

That was his response to seeking God, or the answer to the purpose of life. Get your facts straight.

And what do you think 'live good or go and suffer in hell is' if not a purpose of life?

LOL i've known many people like you. You're the type that reads a few thing about Buddhism, and then discovers some 'enlightening' concepts, and then go preaching around to other people how great an idea it is, all in the while thinking how special you are because you're the few that discovered it. My advice to you, go read some more and hopefully you'll get over this elitism.

Elitism? You sure do like making judgements without knowing much. I am sure you have known people like me.... because you know me so well, right?

If you paid attention, I didn't preach. I simply started a thread, gave it a topic and let it fly. I never said, I think everyone should be buddhist. Did I? No.

So please, think before you type some nonsense out. Because, it is you who sounds like an elitsit.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: kmrivers
What do you think?

I think that you are mentally challanged.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: kmrivers
What do you think?

I think that you are mentally challanged.

I simply asked a question. I never said that this was my sentiment. So take your garbage somewhere else.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: kmrivers
What do you think?

I think that you are mentally challanged.

In the context it had to be done.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Babbles
People mentioned reincarnation, and it totally depends on what school of Buddhism you adhere to. The Tibetans, for example, do believe in a sort of reincarnation - the Dali Lama is a reincarnation of the Avalokiteshvara Buddha (Kwan Yin, Kannon).

Have you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead? FANTASTIC book if you haven't read it yet. Absolutely amazing, at least i thought it was, considering that this book was written hundreds of years ago, far before people even heard of Near Death Experiences.

The book obviously explains death, but very detailed. It mentions the white light people see, and how the person hangs around after death. What they should expect, like their senses will be entirely different... ie you not only see light, but you feel it too.

It also mentions hell/heaven. These aren't real locations, but mental states played by your mind. Imagine that you were dead, and you had perfect memory (that's what you get at death according to the text), and you remember all your life. The good and the bad. But you don't have the luxury of being able to distract yourself from the regrets and guilts you've done in life. So you have to face them, knowing that you've hurt this person, and you also see the consequences of what you've done (ie you insult somebody in grade 8... at that time, you simply laughed and ran away... but at death, you get to see the consequences... you get to see that kid run off crying, and then at night when he sleeps, how he prays that the next day, you don't tease him), with no way of rectifying it.

All this puts a lot of psychological stress on you. And like life, you need to make sense of what's causing all this, so you create an illusion that God is punishing you... that is if you're a biblical religion... if you're hindu, you'll believe something else, etc. So your mind creates this hell based on what you've been taught or what you believe.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: kmrivers
What do you think?

I think that you are mentally challanged.

I simply asked a question. I never said that this was my sentiment. So take your garbage somewhere else.

Just to play Devil's advocate you did state "Everyone should be a Buddhist." Being that it is a statement, how is that not your sentiment? It implies that is indeed your stance and as such to get upset at people for taking issues with it is very irresponsible and immature. Don't make blanket statements then get upset when people take issues with them.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Elitism? You sure do like making judgements without knowing much. I am sure you have known people like me.... because you know me so well, right?

If you paid attention, I didn't preach. I simply started a thread, gave it a topic and let it fly. I never said, I think everyone should be buddhist. Did I? No.

So please, think before you type some nonsense out. Because, it is you who sounds like an elitsit.

That's just because you lack the capacity to say anything else. Instead, you just tell people they're idiots.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Elitism? You sure do like making judgements without knowing much. I am sure you have known people like me.... because you know me so well, right?

If you paid attention, I didn't preach. I simply started a thread, gave it a topic and let it fly. I never said, I think everyone should be buddhist. Did I? No.

So please, think before you type some nonsense out. Because, it is you who sounds like an elitsit.

That's just because you lack the capacity to say anything else. Instead, you just tell people they're idiots.

Nice comeback. Hope you feel good about yourself now.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Elitism? You sure do like making judgements without knowing much. I am sure you have known people like me.... because you know me so well, right?

If you paid attention, I didn't preach. I simply started a thread, gave it a topic and let it fly. I never said, I think everyone should be buddhist. Did I? No.

So please, think before you type some nonsense out. Because, it is you who sounds like an elitsit.

That's just because you lack the capacity to say anything else. Instead, you just tell people they're idiots.

Nice comeback. Hope you feel good about yourself now.

Wow nice comeback to his equally nice comeback.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Babbles
People mentioned reincarnation, and it totally depends on what school of Buddhism you adhere to. The Tibetans, for example, do believe in a sort of reincarnation - the Dali Lama is a reincarnation of the Avalokiteshvara Buddha (Kwan Yin, Kannon).

Have you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead? FANTASTIC book if you haven't read it yet. Absolutely amazing, at least i thought it was, considering that this book was written hundreds of years ago, far before people even heard of Near Death Experiences.

The book obviously explains death, but very detailed. It mentions the white light people see, and how the person hangs around after death. What they should expect, like their senses will be entirely different... ie you not only see light, but you feel it too.

It also mentions hell/heaven. These aren't real locations, but mental states played by your mind. Imagine that you were dead, and you had perfect memory (that's what you get at death according to the text), and you remember all your life. The good and the bad. But you don't have the luxury of being able to distract yourself from the regrets and guilts you've done in life. So you have to face them, knowing that you've hurt this person, and you also see the consequences of what you've done (ie you insult somebody in grade 8... at that time, you simply laughed and ran away... but at death, you get to see the consequences... you get to see that kid run off crying, and then at night when he sleeps, how he prays that the next day, you don't tease him), with no way of rectifying it.

All this puts a lot of psychological stress on you. And like life, you need to make sense of what's causing all this, so you create an illusion that God is punishing you... that is if you're a biblical religion... if you're hindu, you'll believe something else, etc. So your mind creates this hell based on what you've been taught or what you believe.

Yes I have read it, but it has been a few years back and I hardly remember a thing. Also to be honest I really didn't "get it" the finer points when I read it back then. I should sit down and give it another read. As interesting as it is, I just can't get into the Tibetan Buddhist way of thinking. I really do enjoy a lot of the writings by H.H. The Dali Lama - in fact reading a book of his now "The Universe in a Single Atom" - but from a practicing point of view, Tibetan Buddhism does nothing for me.

Of also heard the Tibetan Book of the Dead was even more interesting to read while on LSD. . .

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

Then how does one "turn" into a Buddhist?

I like how Buddhism is so quickly accepted, while people bash other "religions".

And to me, Buddhism is no different. It still functions as a means to control people through "rules", etc.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Elitism? You sure do like making judgements without knowing much. I am sure you have known people like me.... because you know me so well, right?

If you paid attention, I didn't preach. I simply started a thread, gave it a topic and let it fly. I never said, I think everyone should be buddhist. Did I? No.

So please, think before you type some nonsense out. Because, it is you who sounds like an elitsit.

That's just because you lack the capacity to say anything else. Instead, you just tell people they're idiots.

Nice comeback. Hope you feel good about yourself now.

Wow nice comeback to his equally nice comeback.

I bet you feel good now too! I am going to go read the Bible now. I have church in the morning.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

Then how does one "turn" into a Buddhist?

I like how Buddhism is so quickly accepted, while people bash other "religions".

And to me, Buddhism is no different. It still functions as a means to control people through "rules", etc.

It is interesting how many people are quick to bash Christianity just to do so. I would argue that Buddhism is not a means to control people simply because that defeats the purpose of Buddhism (however there are schools out there that are very controlling, such as Tibetan). Allegedly the last thing Shakyamuni Buddha said before he died was, "Be a lamp unto yourself " (or some variation thereof). Which was to tell his followers to be their own guiding light, and don't blindly follow others (which of course happened anyhow).
A more 'famous' Zen/Chan saying is if you meet the Buddha, you need to kill the Buddha. It is about detachment from your teachers and the Buddha himself; be your own. With lessons such as this, it is hard to really think an underlying principle in Buddhism is to control people.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Babbles
People mentioned reincarnation, and it totally depends on what school of Buddhism you adhere to. The Tibetans, for example, do believe in a sort of reincarnation - the Dali Lama is a reincarnation of the Avalokiteshvara Buddha (Kwan Yin, Kannon).

Have you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead? FANTASTIC book if you haven't read it yet. Absolutely amazing, at least i thought it was, considering that this book was written hundreds of years ago, far before people even heard of Near Death Experiences.

The book obviously explains death, but very detailed. It mentions the white light people see, and how the person hangs around after death. What they should expect, like their senses will be entirely different... ie you not only see light, but you feel it too.

It also mentions hell/heaven. These aren't real locations, but mental states played by your mind. Imagine that you were dead, and you had perfect memory (that's what you get at death according to the text), and you remember all your life. The good and the bad. But you don't have the luxury of being able to distract yourself from the regrets and guilts you've done in life. So you have to face them, knowing that you've hurt this person, and you also see the consequences of what you've done (ie you insult somebody in grade 8... at that time, you simply laughed and ran away... but at death, you get to see the consequences... you get to see that kid run off crying, and then at night when he sleeps, how he prays that the next day, you don't tease him), with no way of rectifying it.

All this puts a lot of psychological stress on you. And like life, you need to make sense of what's causing all this, so you create an illusion that God is punishing you... that is if you're a biblical religion... if you're hindu, you'll believe something else, etc. So your mind creates this hell based on what you've been taught or what you believe.

Yes I have read it, but it has been a few years back and I hardly remember a thing. Also to be honest I really didn't "get it" the finer points when I read it back then. I should sit down and give it another read. As interesting as it is, I just can't get into the Tibetan Buddhist way of thinking. I really do enjoy a lot of the writings by H.H. The Dali Lama - in fact reading a book of his now "The Universe in a Single Atom" - but from a practicing point of view, Tibetan Buddhism does nothing for me.

Of also heard the Tibetan Book of the Dead was even more interesting to read while on LSD. . .

LOL i don't know about that, it's a very difficult read. I'm only aware of 2 versions, the Shambala press one, and the Black covered one with the red symbol on it... that's the one i read, and it's very esoteric. I'm told the Shambala one is an easier read, but i never got around to it. I actually got into Buddhism due to that book... and i got into that book by accident. I was reading Carl Jung at the time (yeah, i was a weird teen), and found that he wrote a commentary in that text, and the title was so weird, i decided to pick it up at a used book store. I've had that same book for like 15 years now! I've taken it everywhere with me, including into prison and out of prison (that's the only thing i kept when i came out... i literally tossed EVERYTHING into the first garbage bin i saw except that book).

As for Tibetan Buddhism, i'm very similar in that i pretty much only read the books and meetings of the Dalai Lama.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

Then how does one "turn" into a Buddhist?

I like how Buddhism is so quickly accepted, while people bash other "religions".

And to me, Buddhism is no different. It still functions as a means to control people through "rules", etc.

Control people with Buddhism? In Buddhism, violence is a big no-no (it's why they're vegetarians, and they'll take a flea off their coat to put it inside their coat to keep it warm)... and the entire system is built on the very simple concept that life is full of discontent and suffering, which is caused by the ego and it's desire for power and materialistic things.

How do you control people through that?

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: kmrivers
What do you think?

I think that you are mentally challanged.

I simply asked a question. I never said that this was my sentiment. So take your garbage somewhere else.

By saying, "Everyone should be buddhist," you indicate that it is indeed your sentiment.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: kmrivers
What do you think?

I think that you are mentally challanged.

I simply asked a question. I never said that this was my sentiment. So take your garbage somewhere else.

By saying, "Everyone should be buddhist," you indicate that it is indeed your sentiment.

Really. I guess reading is not your stong suit. This is also exactly why I posted the Christian thread too. I am neither Buddhist or Christian. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

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