Everyone should be buddhist.

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

 

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

You my friend, are an idiot.

u

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

You my friend, are an idiot.

Fu

did you forget a letter?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

at least in zen buddhism, from what i read(Introduction to Zen Buddhism by D. T. Suzuki).. eventually you reach the point where your actions have no karma whatsoever - they are neither "good" nor "bad", but perfectly aligned with the moment in which you act.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, where it lands and who it hits, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Buddhism is a religion and philosophy focusing on the teachings of the Buddha Sakyamuni (Siddhartha Gautama), who probably lived in the 5th century BCE. Buddhism spread throughout the ancient Indian sub-continent in the five centuries following the Buddha's death, and propagated into Central, Southeast, and East Asia over the next two millennia. Today, Buddhism is divided primarily into three traditions: Theravada (Sanskrit: Sthaviravada), Mahayana, and Vajrayana. Buddhism continues to attract followers worldwide, and, with around 350 million followers, it is considered a major world religion.

link

 

[BatmanNate]

Everyone should be bokonist.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

 

[Amplifier]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

You my friend, are an idiot.

Fu

did you forget a letter?

u

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

exactly, from my point of view, this is the relation of religion and philosophy

Religion -> {}
Philosoophy -> []

{ [ ] }

 

[Looney]

Souls, gods, rituals, all those were created for the laymen. Buddhism isn't a religion that held much power over the people, and at it's core, there's no authoritative power. And especially in ancient times, when the peasants were far less educated, it was hard to educate them into living a 'good life' if there were no punishments and reward... so the monks taught Buddhism in ways that they would understand. It wasn't exaclty correct, but it gave people an understanding on how to live a 'good' life at least.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

This seems to be a more modern interpretation of Buddhism. Old Buddhism, prior Chan I guess, there really was a soul that accrued karma one way or other and was sent to hell if you were bad. There the soul would be punished and then ou'd be reborn.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Looney
Souls, gods, rituals, all those were created for the laymen. Buddhism isn't a religion that held much power over the people, and at it's core, there's no authoritative power. And especially in ancient times, when the peasants were far less educated, it was hard to educate them into living a 'good life' if there were no punishments and reward... so the monks taught Buddhism in ways that they would understand. It wasn't exaclty correct, but it gave people an understanding on how to live a 'good' life at least.

It kept evolving depending on where it went. Chinese Buddhism had a lot of rituals and souls and gods. I guess you could argue that it isn't correct and hence not real Buddhism but that's like saying Christianity isn't a real religion because its a derivative of Judaism

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Looney
Souls, gods, rituals, all those were created for the laymen. Buddhism isn't a religion that held much power over the people, and at it's core, there's no authoritative power. And especially in ancient times, when the peasants were far less educated, it was hard to educate them into living a 'good life' if there were no punishments and reward... so the monks taught Buddhism in ways that they would understand. It wasn't exaclty correct, but it gave people an understanding on how to live a 'good' life at least.

It's still a religion either way. The measure of religion isn't how much power is held over the people (Marx much?). It's more the emotional side of a philosophy IMHO...

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

Interesting read. It's very easy to see how this might eventually be misinterpreted into the current popularly held view of reincarnation.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

This seems to be a more modern interpretation of Buddhism. Old Buddhism, prior Chan I guess, there really was a soul that accrued karma one way or other and was sent to hell if you were bad. There the soul would be punished and then ou'd be reborn.

I'll bet you're Chinese. $100 says i'm right.

Show me where in any Buddhist text that says ANYTHING remotely like this. The Buddha NEVER talked about death, not once. He was constantly asked about death in fact, and he used this analogy 'if you were shot by a poison arrow, would you want to be treated right away... or would you demand to know who shot you, where did they shoot you from, what kind of man shot you, what was the arrow made of, etc beofre treating' you?/

 

[Amplifier]

philosophers rofl go to starbucks

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

This seems to be a more modern interpretation of Buddhism. Old Buddhism, prior Chan I guess, there really was a soul that accrued karma one way or other and was sent to hell if you were bad. There the soul would be punished and then ou'd be reborn.

I'll bet you're Chinese. $100 says i'm right.

Show me where in any Buddhist text that says ANYTHING remotely like this. The Buddha NEVER talked about death, not once. He was constantly asked about death in fact, and he used this analogy 'if you were shot by a poison arrow, would you want to be treated right away... or would you demand to know who shot you, where did they shoot you from, what kind of man shot you, what was the arrow made of, etc beofre treating' you?/

But what I'm saying is Chinese Buddhism had the concept of a soul that Chinese Buddhists believed in (both the lay people and clergy). I believe you're right that original canon didn't have evidence of a lot of things BUddhism eventually developed. But i think that's pretty normal for any religion. And there have always been other texts that were written later (whether they were divinely inspired or not is another thing) that mentioned souls and what not.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

I don't know what elephant you're talking about, but the fat guy is Maitreya. 'He's' not real, at least not yet... just symbolic of the person who's going to one day be born and bring enlightenment to the world. Different cultures represent him in a different image.

As for a religion or philosophy. Well, it's both. There are obviously many people who take it as a religion, who idolize the symbols, idols, and words as if they hold power... and these people far out number the people who take Buddhism as a philosophy.

It's a little hard to seperate the religion from the philosophy. In fact I'm not sure how you can derive a full philosophy frmo Buddhism in absence of karma, reincarnation, enlightenment. I suppose you can distill it down to "be a good person" but that's not a very original philosophy.

Becuase karma and reincarnation doesn't exist in Buddhism, not the way you see it. You see it as a force that's imposed by some sort of will. If you throw a ball into a crowd of a thousand people, when it lands, is it by random chance, or did some supernatural force select that person? Neither. It was the laws of physics, and if you knew the trajectory of that ball, if you knew the wind velocity, and you knew where everybody stood in the crowd, you would have predicted how it was going to fall. That's the same thing as karma. As for reincarnation, there is no reincarnation, because there are no souls.

Um... souls do exist in Buddhism and reincarnation is also existant. I'm not here to argue for the merits of the religion itself, just what it espouses

http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm

This seems to be a more modern interpretation of Buddhism. Old Buddhism, prior Chan I guess, there really was a soul that accrued karma one way or other and was sent to hell if you were bad. There the soul would be punished and then ou'd be reborn.

I'll bet you're Chinese. $100 says i'm right.

Show me where in any Buddhist text that says ANYTHING remotely like this. The Buddha NEVER talked about death, not once. He was constantly asked about death in fact, and he used this analogy 'if you were shot by a poison arrow, would you want to be treated right away... or would you demand to know who shot you, where did they shoot you from, what kind of man shot you, what was the arrow made of, etc beofre treating' you?/

That was his response to seeking God, or the answer to the purpose of life. Get your facts straight.

 

[Cattlegod]

logically everyone should be agnostic

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: BoldAsLove
my girlfriend just turned buddhist.
and buddhism is a philosophy...not a religion

then explain the giant fat guy they worship and the elephant

You my friend, are an idiot.

Fu

did you forget a letter?

no u

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney
Souls, gods, rituals, all those were created for the laymen. Buddhism isn't a religion that held much power over the people, and at it's core, there's no authoritative power. And especially in ancient times, when the peasants were far less educated, it was hard to educate them into living a 'good life' if there were no punishments and reward... so the monks taught Buddhism in ways that they would understand. It wasn't exaclty correct, but it gave people an understanding on how to live a 'good' life at least.

It kept evolving depending on where it went. Chinese Buddhism had a lot of rituals and souls and gods. I guess you could argue that it isn't correct and hence not real Buddhism but that's like saying Christianity isn't a real religion because its a derivative of Judaism

I never said it wasn't Buddhism, you're the one that's reading it that way. I said there's two side of it, the religious side, and the philosophical side. The phillsophical side, is the side that does not focus on the icons, idols, and symbols. It's the side that sees that the cause of our unhappiness or discontent comes from our ego, our attraction to physical things. And to find happiness, we need to transcend the ego and it's selfishness. Of course, this won't make sense to you, so the idols and rituals work for you. Neither is right or wrong.

The Dalai Lama himself once was asked how can Buddhism exist in a world with Christianity and all the other religions in the world, and his answer was, just like our need for food, which some of us satisfies with sweets, others spicy, and other salty food. It really isn't too important what they eat, just as long as they satisfy that need. And it's the same thing for religion. We all have a need to find meaning in our life, and some people may find it in Christianity, and some people Buddhism, and others Judaism, but as long as it satisfies that part of them that needs an answer, and it doesn't harm other people, then it's good.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Looney
Souls, gods, rituals, all those were created for the laymen. Buddhism isn't a religion that held much power over the people, and at it's core, there's no authoritative power. And especially in ancient times, when the peasants were far less educated, it was hard to educate them into living a 'good life' if there were no punishments and reward... so the monks taught Buddhism in ways that they would understand. It wasn't exaclty correct, but it gave people an understanding on how to live a 'good' life at least.

It kept evolving depending on where it went. Chinese Buddhism had a lot of rituals and souls and gods. I guess you could argue that it isn't correct and hence not real Buddhism but that's like saying Christianity isn't a real religion because its a derivative of Judaism

I never said it wasn't Buddhism, you're the one that's reading it that way. I said there's two side of it, the religious side, and the philosophical side. The phillsophical side, is the side that does not focus on the icons, idols, and symbols. It's the side that sees that the cause of our unhappiness or discontent comes from our ego, our attraction to physical things. And to find happiness, we need to transcend the ego and it's selfishness. Of course, this won't make sense to you, so the idols and rituals work for you. Neither is right or wrong.

The Dalai Lama himself once was asked how can Buddhism exist in a world with Christianity and all the other religions in the world, and his answer was, just like our need for food, which some of us satisfies with sweets, others spicy, and other salty food. It really isn't too important what they eat, just as long as they satisfy that need. And it's the same thing for religion. We all have a need to find meaning in our life, and some people may find it in Christianity, and some people Buddhism, and others Judaism, but as long as it satisfies that part of them that needs an answer, and it doesn't harm other people, then it's good.

Oh ok my bad.