Ever think of becoming vegetarian? NOW WITH POLL

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
There have been a lot of animal rights/dog eating :)/various other meat eathing threads lately. I was just wondering how many people out there think about becoming a vegetarian.

I know there are a lot of people that are heavy meat eaters. I used to be too, i was raised eating everything from beef to goat, but nothing more exotic than goat. I quit beef while I was in college for several reasons. I still eat other meats, though, for the past month I have cut down a lot. I am thinking of becoming completely vegetarian one day, relatively soon.

Personally, I cannot stand people who are animal rights activists and are meat eaters. That is a prime example of supreme hypocrisy. And I know 1 in real life. She's one of those people that would rather hurt a human than an animal, then, if we eat something, she orders chicken. I'm like WTF? but I know she's very sensitive about it, so I don't bring it up.

Anyways, whether we want to believe what some of the radicals of PETA say or not, i think, if nothing, common sense dictates that animal cruelty exists in the meat industry. And if you have ever owned a dog, you know that animals do have emotions and feelings. Whether their pain suffered is mental or physical, eating meat invariably involves cruelty to the animal somewhere down the line.

I have not quit yet, because it is very hard for me, but I am weaning down. I eat meat about once a week now, maybe less. Its kind of hard sometimes. I have also started employing the Buddhist approach, which, as far as I understand it means that you don't ORDER a meat dish. I.E. if the animal is already killed, it is better to not let their food value go to waste (i.e. their life had value, so, at this point we should go ahead and eat it). Its kinda philosophical stuff, and I know ATOT people don't really like to think about things like that. IF I order the dish, then that increases the demand for more meat production i.e. animal killing. In 2005, with so many varieties of vegetables, and so many soy products, i just dont' feel it is worth it to take another life to satisfy an appetite that can be satisfied 80% as well as a diet that includes meat. (80% is my take. I'm sure some think soy products + vegetarian food canno't replace a diet with meat by 80%, and I'm sure some think that you can replace 100%). If you shop in a nice grocery store (i.e. not Walmart, but one that caters to people who really like to cook and eat), you will find that there are MANY soy based meat like products that are pretty good. Really. I know you can't compare sometimes, in certain categories to the real thing (Like a whopper. damn, i'm getting hungry thinking of it.), but at the end of the day, you feel good knowing that another living creature did not have to die to quench that hunger. So my problem isn't with eating meat. Its with the taking of a life, and that my diet should not contribute to a system that engages in said practices.

If you step back, and look at it, American culture and corporations have done much to propogate meat eating as essential to the American diet. BBQs, Cookoffs, Commercials (Beef - its whats for dinner; Pork - the other white meat), etc. Please think about it, and do not be fooled by so much hype. From everything i've read, and seen (people who are 100% vegetarian can be strong, i've known some from childhood and they are - they can take protein supplements that help offset any less protein from not eating meat). We don't really need meat to be strong. I'm not a lefty or pro animal lover here. I'm just someone who respects animals as living creatures, and feel that we all should respect it too. I still eat meat, but I've made vast reductions in my meat intake. I think others should consider it too.

So, anyone here thought about it? Anyone raised as a meat eater and then think about converting to vegetarianism sometime down the road? Unfortunately, I can see a lot of people say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with eating meat. Well, if this is true, can you also tell me that animals do not have emotions and feelings? Can you tell me that, morally, is it okay to take a life to improve the taste of your diet? You can be just as healthy being vegetarian - scientists have proved that now. So it does not come to survival or health reasons anymore, it has simply come down to personal preference. Well, if has come down to something so insignificant as personal preference, and on the other side, something so morally important as God created life, should we indulge in meat eating?
I don't want to make this into a fight, but I do want to provoke and engage a thoughtful debate/discussion on it.

thanks.

 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
nope,
I hardly get enough amino acids and protein in my diet as is. *People* die all over the world on daily basis, so animal cruelty is really of no concern to me. I'm all for natural order.


Cliffnotes please, i read the first two paragraphs and gave up.

 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Yes there is, if you want to remain a person of average to below average intelligence, then yes, you are correct.

Originally posted by: labgeek
Ever think of becoming vegetarian?

Not much need to read the rest of the post... The answer is Hell No!

 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,883
2,121
126
I have, but the toughest part of eating vegetables is the darn wheelchair.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
I know its long. i tend to write long posts. sorry. anyways, There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Originally posted by: halik
nope,
I hardly get enough amino acids and protein in my diet as is. *People* die all over the world on daily basis, so animal cruelty is really of no concern to me. I'm all for natural order.


Cliffnotes please, i read the first two paragraphs and gave up.

 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
1) i dont beleive in god
2) animals eat animals we (humans) are an animal
3) if we never ate meat we wouldent have evolved to where we are today
4) i will now eat 2x the meat as i did before to make up for what you arnt eateing
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
cliffnotes:

With it now being proven that you can be just as healthy being a vegetarian (*in fact, meat has seemed to be riskier for health than a vegetarian diet) is it MORALLY CORRECT and righteous to kill a living creature just to improve the taste of your diet?

Serious replies only.



*increased chances of colon cancer, bird flu, mad cow disease, etc.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: jbaggins
I know its long. i tend to write long posts. sorry. anyways, There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Originally posted by: halik
nope,
I hardly get enough amino acids and protein in my diet as is. *People* die all over the world on daily basis, so animal cruelty is really of no concern to me. I'm all for natural order.


Cliffnotes please, i read the first two paragraphs and gave up.


It's natural order because we're part of the foodchain in that way. Same reason guys surfing in australia get eaten by a shark sometime. Sucks for them, but c'est la vie.

Also I've never seen an athelete or anyone remotelly buff thats veggie. Quite the opposite actually, every single vergetarian i know is scrawny as hell. I try to eat good 150G of protein every day and that would be hardly possible with all vegetables.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: jbaggins
There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Yeah? And most of the vegetables you eat were grown on farms, not picked out of the forest. Is it unnatural for humans to raise their food?

It's natural for humans to use tools and alter the environment around us. While other animals merely find pre-existing things to use, humans make our own. So it does make sense that we'd raise our own food.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
1) Personal preference, fine, what about morality?
2) Animals eat animals was okay when our ancestors were chukking spears. Is this argument valid today though, as we have evolved far beyond other species, I would argue that we are not the same people we were - and I think most would agree. There are thousands of customs, of all different peoples that are left behind as we become more evolved. (witch craft burning, bride burning, public beheadings, etc., diet, etc)
3)Probably true, because again, at that time, we did not have the resources and quantity of foods back then. I am not arguing that it is morally incorrect back then. AT that time, we would be lucky with WHATEVER food we (humans) could get. Not today. I don't believe the argument holds significane TODAY.
4)Good fer ya. :beer:


Originally posted by: Anubis
1) i dont beleive in god
2) animals eat animals we (humans) are an animal
3) if we never ate meat we wouldent have evolved to where we are today
4) i will now eat 2x the meat as i did before to make up for what you arnt eateing

 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
LOL, a shark biting off a guy's arm is natural order? Come on, no way. Natural order was when our ancestors were spear chuckers, and we were about as likely to get eaten by a lion as we were to kill one.

Regarding amino acids, protein, etc. Not true, I know lots of vegetarians that are on protein shakes and have amino acids and good amounts of protein and are pretty buff.

And I know there are some vegetarian body builders. I can find some links, or you can google it if you prefer.


Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: jbaggins
I know its long. i tend to write long posts. sorry. anyways, There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Originally posted by: halik
nope,
I hardly get enough amino acids and protein in my diet as is. *People* die all over the world on daily basis, so animal cruelty is really of no concern to me. I'm all for natural order.


Cliffnotes please, i read the first two paragraphs and gave up.


It's natural order because we're part of the foodchain in that way. Same reason guys surfing in australia get eaten by a shark sometime. Sucks for them, but c'est la vie.

Also I've never seen an athelete or anyone remotelly buff thats veggie. Quite the opposite actually, every single vergetarian i know is scrawny as hell. I try to eat good 150G of protein every day and that would be hardly possible with all vegetables.

 

Monkey muppet

Golden Member
Sep 28, 2004
1,241
0
0
A good mixture of beans and pulses will give you same of the protien your need.

With fish and nuts giving you the rest, plus a good mixture a the different fats the body requires.

 

KarenMarie

Elite Member
Sep 20, 2003
14,372
6
81
VeggieFrog has been veggie since she is 9yrs. old.... she is now 20yrs old....it hasnt hurt her at all.

she has clear sparkling eyes, shiny hair and glowing skin. She isn ot fat... and is really healthy.

:)
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: jbaggins
There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Yeah? And most of the vegetables you eat were grown on farms, not picked out of the forest. Is it unnatural for humans to raise their food?

It's natural for humans to use tools and alter the environment around us. While other animals merely find pre-existing things to use, humans make our own. So it does make sense that we'd raise our own food.


You're confused aobut how natural order works. It's not about where the thigns come from, but what you consume.

worm <- mouse <-owl <-hawk etc.

Humans eat animals lower on the chain. Thats why our teeth have developed the way they did. We're omnivores - if we weren't then we'd have flat teeth and 4 stomachs.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Animals are not equal to Plants.

Animals have families and emotions.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: jbaggins
There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Yeah? And most of the vegetables you eat were grown on farms, not picked out of the forest. Is it unnatural for humans to raise their food?

It's natural for humans to use tools and alter the environment around us. While other animals merely find pre-existing things to use, humans make our own. So it does make sense that we'd raise our own food.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: jbaggins
1) Personal preference, fine, what about morality?
2) Animals eat animals was okay when our ancestors were chukking spears. Is this argument valid today though, as we have evolved far beyond other species, I would argue that we are not the same people we were - and I think most would agree.

1. Would you stop a cheetah from eating an antelope? There's plenty of grass for that cheetah to eat, maybe it could just eat grass.

2. We evolved to what we are now because of our high protein, high calorie diets. Such diets support larger brains.

Take a look at all the really smart animals, and you'll notice that they're carnivores. Most plant eating animals are not very smart. People like you use the excuse that we've evolved as a reason that we should be vegatarians. That's just stupid. I don't feel like de-evolving.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
1) morality has nothing to do with it
2) we are still animals, and we NEED meat to survive, peopel that eat no mean, no fish chicken, none of it, need to take suppllements for what they arnt getting from the meat because veggies just dont have the nutritional value
3) we are always evolving, so yes its still valid



Originally posted by: jbaggins
1) Personal preference, fine, what about morality?
2) Animals eat animals was okay when our ancestors were chukking spears. Is this argument valid today though, as we have evolved far beyond other species, I would argue that we are not the same people we were - and I think most would agree. There are thousands of customs, of all different peoples that are left behind as we become more evolved. (witch craft burning, bride burning, public beheadings, etc., diet, etc)
3)Probably true, because again, at that time, we did not have the resources and quantity of foods back then. I am not arguing that it is morally incorrect back then. AT that time, we would be lucky with WHATEVER food we (humans) could get. Not today. I don't believe the argument holds significane TODAY.
4)Good fer ya. :beer:


Originally posted by: Anubis
1) i dont beleive in god
2) animals eat animals we (humans) are an animal
3) if we never ate meat we wouldent have evolved to where we are today
4) i will now eat 2x the meat as i did before to make up for what you arnt eateing