Ever seen a business close due to being unable to find employees?

[IronWing]

I think he’s a guy most of us disagree with but he’s been reasonable and civil and it’s nice to have people like that here.

That's why I think he's a bot.

 

[sactoking]

The Buffalo Wild Wings near me is closing due to persistent lack of staff.

Just got notice that a local burrito joint is also closing permanently this Sunday due to lack of staff.

 

[MrSquished]

You are arguing this from the perspective of lumping small business owners (#1 employer in america) with mega corps.

Keep in mind, you also were reminiscing about the days that just having a job, no matter what it paid, was a good thing. Also you said San Diego can just fall into the sea. And a few other things.

You sound just like the mega corps so maybe try not to?

 

[soulcougher73]

I busted my ass as a gen x blue collar worker.
My Boomer mom busted her ass working her life being a pink collar worker. My mom now lives with me.
Feel free to eat my ass pumpkin cake.

Same. single mom raising two kids working 2 jobs etc. Now lives with me.

 

[PumpkinCake]

Keep in mind, you also were reminiscing about the days that just having a job, no matter what it paid, was a good thing. Also you said San Diego can just fall into the sea. And a few other things.

You sound just like the mega corps so maybe try not to?

I think anyone of working age should have a job period. If you have no marketable skills, I think working and making minimum wage is better than not working and living in mom's basement. Financial stuff aside, I think it's healthy both individually and as a society for people to overall be productive. If you are working minimum wage, you should be also developing and learning marketable skills to get a better job.

 

[brycejones]

I think he’s a guy most of us disagree with but he’s been reasonable and civil and it’s nice to have people like that here.

Agreed

 

[NWRMidnight]

I have increased pay by an average of 30% since covid hit. I pass that 30% directly to the client. The client passes that on as well. Which results in.... inflation. Which means I am not paying staff enough again.

From my perspective, it's really not a wage issue, it's more of a work ethic issue. I'm in a professional/licensed field that requires a bachelors and most have a masters.

It feels like some kind of cultural shift for the lower skill/no skill jobs needed for small business. Our dog groomer has increased fees 40%. She's about to close her retail shop because she's losing customers and can't afford a space.

As an owner, how has this effected YOUR income/benefits and profit margin? You can blame it on what every you want, but if you are like many CEO's/owners that is being paid a discusting massively high salary/benefits package in comparison to your employees, as your company continues to take in record breaking profits, you can't honestly sit there and blame any of the inflation on wages. Until those profit margins come down to a reasonable level and platue, and CEO salaries\benefit packages, get back in line with employee wages\benefit packages.. the blame is on you and those other companies, not the employees, or the wages they make.

You are also talking out your ass when you bring up entery level skill/low level skill, marketable skills, as it's just an excuse not to pay livable wages for an honest day's work. Your example of the dog groomer is a great example.. You expect a company to survive by paying low wages, and the fact that she is losing customers shows is that is what people also expect.. To you, it's the wages that are making it so she can't afford her space.. that is purposterious, and a bullshit excuse.

edit: I can't spell worth a damn today!

 

[ivwshane]

You are arguing this from the perspective of lumping small business owners (#1 employer in america) with mega corps.

Other than specifically using a progressive tax scheme, I am.

 

[soulcougher73]

I think he’s a guy most of us disagree with but he’s been reasonable and civil and it’s nice to have people like that here.

oh fuck off with this reasonable post….

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I think anyone of working age should have a job period.

My GF is blind. 'Should' she be gainfully employed?

 

[PumpkinCake]

As an owner, how has this effected YOUR income/benefits and profit margin? You can blame it on what every you want, but if you are like many CEO's/owners that is being paid a discusting massively high salary/benefits package in comparison to your employees, as your company continues to take in record breaking profits, you can't honestlyl sit there and blame any of the inflation on wages. Until those profit margins come down to a reasonable level and platue, and CEO salaries\benefit packages, get back in line with employee wages\benefit packages.. the blame is on you and those other companies, not the employees, or the wages they make.

You are also talkikng out your ass when you bring up entery level skill/low level skill, as it's just an excuse not to pay livable wages for an honest day's work.. Your example of the dog groomer is a great example.. You expect a company to survive by paying low wages, and the fact that she is losing customers shows is that is what people also expect.. To you, it's the wages that are making it so she can't afford her space.. that is purposterious, and a bullshit excuse.

Brutally honest, The first 3 years I spent almost every dime I had to personally risk to starting this firm. You are arguing against the typical mega corp CEO. Which are overpaid for myriad of bullshit reasons. But you need to seperate small business owners (#1 employer in america) with S&p 500 CEOs.

To directly answer your question, thankfully covid caused my industry to boom. I was not expecting that. I took the first round of PPP and bumped up bonuses - top employees got insanely massive 50-60% of their yearly pay bonuses. I had accounting create an account for PPP and specifically carved that out for staff. I still fundamentally disagree with PPP. It wasn't regulated enough, and isn't being audited enough, but as a business owner if free money is there I'm obligated to apply for it.

Your second point about the groomer, I don't think it's tied to wages. I think culturally everyone online posts what is in this thread..... If you aren't being paid $30/hr you are being taken advantage of. And boomer parents "support" that. So instead of the 30 year old basement child in his mom's home working at the groomer for $20-30/hr it's somehow better to apply for $100k/year full wfh jobs and stay unemployed. My side is, get a fucking job. Not all jobs are great. Most jobs are lots of work. I think it's partially a pay issue (tied to mega corps) but mostly this social thing of it being acceptable to stay in parents basement and not work. That used to be incredibly shameful. But now...... It's "smart". And yea, keep doing it until inflation goes fucking insane due to rising prices (due to lack of labor) and now the 30yo is 45yo still unemployed, no skills, no income, no social skills. I guess waiting out until mom dies and they get the house?

 

[MrSquished]

I think anyone of working age should have a job period. If you have no marketable skills, I think working and making minimum wage is better than not working and living in mom's basement. Financial stuff aside, I think it's healthy both individually and as a society for people to overall be productive. If you are working minimum wage, you should be also developing and learning marketable skills to get a better job.

Yes I think working is a good thing but I think here we live to work versus work to live. And at the same time if a minimum wage is highly exploitative, maybe that's not a good thing. As long as there is exploitable labor then businesses don't have to improve.

And what's about the marketable skill stuff. Do you not think we need permanent full-time "unskilled" workers? We need everything from food service staff to bus drivers to janitors to landscapers to grocery store workers. I mean the list is really long for what you probably consider not marketable skills. Should these people be living in either poverty or just lower class for life? Even though what they do is fundamental for society to work.

Do you remember essential workers? Can we say essential workers are now skilled workers maybe?

 

[repoman0]

Brutally honest, The first 3 years I spent almost every dime I had to personally risk to starting this firm. You are arguing against the typical mega corp CEO. Which are overpaid for myriad of bullshit reasons. But you need to seperate small business owners (#1 employer in america) with S&p 500 CEOs.

To directly answer your question, thankfully covid caused my industry to boom. I was not expecting that. I took the first round of PPP and bumped up bonuses - top employees got insanely massive 50-60% of their yearly pay bonuses. I had accounting create an account for PPP and specifically carved that out for staff. I still fundamentally disagree with PPP. It wasn't regulated enough, and isn't being audited enough, but as a business owner if free money is there I'm obligated to apply for it.

Your second point about the groomer, I don't think it's tied to wages. I think culturally everyone online posts what is in this thread..... If you aren't being paid $30/hr you are being taken advantage of. And boomer parents "support" that. So instead of the 30 year old basement child in his mom's home working at the groomer for $20/hr it's somehow better to apply for $100k/year full wfh jobs and stay unemployed. My side is, get a fucking job. Not all jobs are great. Most jobs are lots of work. I think it's partially a pay issue (tied to mega corps) but mostly this social thing of it being acceptable to stay in parents basement and not work. That used to be incredibly shameful. But now...... It's "smart". And yea, keep doing it until inflation goes fucking insane due to rising prices (due to lack of labor) and now the 30yo is 45yo still unemployed, no skills, no income, no social skills. I guess waiting out until mom dies and they get the house?

You are arguing against a straw man. Let me remind you yet again that unemployment is under 4% and the person you are shit talking basically doesn’t exist. They live in mom’s basement precisely because they make $20 an hour and that’s not a living wage.

 

[fskimospy]

Brutally honest, The first 3 years I spent almost every dime I had to personally risk to starting this firm. You are arguing against the typical mega corp CEO. Which are overpaid for myriad of bullshit reasons. But you need to seperate small business owners (#1 employer in america) with S&p 500 CEOs.

To directly answer your question, thankfully covid caused my industry to boom. I was not expecting that. I took the first round of PPP and bumped up bonuses - top employees got insanely massive 50-60% of their yearly pay bonuses. I had accounting create an account for PPP and specifically carved that out for staff. I still fundamentally disagree with PPP. It wasn't regulated enough, and isn't being audited enough, but as a business owner if free money is there I'm obligated to apply for it.

Your second point about the groomer, I don't think it's tied to wages. I think culturally everyone online posts what is in this thread..... If you aren't being paid $30/hr you are being taken advantage of. And boomer parents "support" that. So instead of the 30 year old basement child in his mom's home working at the groomer for $20-30/hr it's somehow better to apply for $100k/year full wfh jobs and stay unemployed. My side is, get a fucking job. Not all jobs are great. Most jobs are lots of work. I think it's partially a pay issue (tied to mega corps) but mostly this social thing of it being acceptable to stay in parents basement and not work. That used to be incredibly shameful. But now...... It's "smart". And yea, keep doing it until inflation goes fucking insane due to rising prices (due to lack of labor) and now the 30yo is 45yo still unemployed, no skills, no income, no social skills. I guess waiting out until mom dies and they get the house?

I really think you should just consider you’re in a labor market that is more competitive than any you’ve faced in your lifetime.

You might view it as laziness, they view it as exercising market power.

 

[PumpkinCake]

You are arguing against a straw man. Let me remind you yet again that unemployment is under 4% and the person you are shit talking basically doesn’t exist. They live in mom’s basement precisely because they make $20 an hour and that’s not a living wage.

First of all, unemployment numbers are super manipulated. They carve out people who "can't" find work after a certain period of time. You and I know both know the people we are talking about - living with parents, refuse to accept a job unless it's 6 figs and wfh. They aren't counted in most polls.

$20/hour is absolutely a livable wage are you fucking serious. Get a roommate. Yeah it's not a penthouse with a pool. Correct you cannot live in Times Square or San Fran. But for 99% of this country, if you can't live on $20/hr you are wasting money on stupid bullshit. Is it tough? Absolutely. You are cooking at home, not eating out, no doordash or starbucks.

 

[Zorba]

The Buffalo Wild Wings near me is closing due to persistent lack of staff.

I haven't been to the BWW by my office in a long time, but it used to be the day shift for all the strip clubs down the street. Hopefully the strip clubs aren't hurting for labor.

 

[fskimospy]

First of all, unemployment numbers are super manipulated. They carve out people who "can't" find work after a certain period of time. You and I know both know the people we are talking about - living with parents, refuse to accept a job unless it's 6 figs and wfh. They aren't counted in most polls.

$20/hour is absolutely a livable wage are you fucking serious. Get a roommate. Yeah it's not a penthouse with a pool. Correct you cannot live in Times Square or San Fran. But for 99% of this country, if you can't live on $20/hr you are wasting money on stupid bullshit. Is it tough? Absolutely. You are cooking at home, not eating out, no doordash or starbucks.

Regardless if you think they are manipulated (they aren’t) the methodology is consistent over time.

I think you don’t have a strong understanding of economic stats but if you’re open to talking about them I am too.

 

[Zorba]

I'm not on a vpn?

I think there is a time limit until you have a certain number of posts.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Brutally honest, The first 3 years I spent almost every dime I had to personally risk to starting this firm. You are arguing against the typical mega corp CEO. Which are overpaid for myriad of bullshit reasons. But you need to seperate small business owners (#1 employer in america) with S&p 500 CEOs.

To directly answer your question, thankfully covid caused my industry to boom. I was not expecting that. I took the first round of PPP and bumped up bonuses - top employees got insanely massive 50-60% of their yearly pay bonuses. I had accounting create an account for PPP and specifically carved that out for staff. I still fundamentally disagree with PPP. It wasn't regulated enough, and isn't being audited enough, but as a business owner if free money is there I'm obligated to apply for it.

Your second point about the groomer, I don't think it's tied to wages. I think culturally everyone online posts what is in this thread..... If you aren't being paid $30/hr you are being taken advantage of. And boomer parents "support" that. So instead of the 30 year old basement child in his mom's home working at the groomer for $20/hr it's somehow better to apply for $100k/year full wfh jobs and stay unemployed. My side is, get a fucking job. Not all jobs are great. Most jobs are lots of work. I think it's partially a pay issue (tied to mega corps) but mostly this social thing of it being acceptable to stay in parents basement and not work. That used to be incredibly shameful. But now...... It's "smart". And yea, keep doing it until inflation goes fucking insane due to rising prices (due to lack of labor) and now the 30yo is 45yo still unemployed, no skills, no income, no social skills. I guess waiting out until mom dies and they get the house?

You keep talking about your employees wages. Not once have you given us any indication of what you make in comprarison to them. bonuses based off their salaries mean nothing, as it's not tied to company profits.. Meaning, you can make record profits, yet, the employees bonus percentage of their salary doesn't change. I find it comical you claim you fundabmentaly disagree with PPP, yet, you applied for it.. go figure.. But you claim, because of the PPP, you bumped up their bonuses (based off their salaries).. so basically it was us tax payers who paid their bonuses.. huh? And no, you are not obligated to apply for it, and it's not free money.. it's tax payers money that WE paid for. You sit there and try to seperate yourself from Mega Corp CEO's.. yet you use the same excuses and sound just like them... You are not much different, and trying to believe you are, is just lying to yourself.

And no, I am not arguing based off the Mega corps CEO's.. I have worked for both small business and big corporations in the past and watch small business owners do exactly the same thing to their employees as the big corporations do, the only difference is the bigger the company the more the injustices are mulitplied. Many small business owners claim they can't afford to pay any better, on the excuse they are a small business, yet they own a nice big fancy home, they own a summer lake front property, with boats and other recreational vehicles, new or nearly new cars, etc. Yet, their employees struggle every month to pay their rent, put food on the table, and take care of their kids, and some are lucky to have a running vehicle much less a newer one. So please, don't sit there and act like it's just a Mega Corp Ceo issue.. They are the same, the only real differences is the bigger the company the more it multiplies.

 

[PumpkinCake]

Regardless if you think they are manipulated (they aren’t) the methodology is consistent over time.

I think you don’t have a strong understanding of economic stats but if you’re open to talking about them I am too.

No, it's not consistent at all. At first it was literally "unemployed". Then it went to "unemployed but looking for work". In the last decade or so they carved it out again, so that if you're unemployed for a period of time you don't count at all. Maybe manipulated is a strong word, but like all things politicians touch it's not as clear as it should be.

https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/origins-of-unemployment.pdf

 

[repoman0]

First of all, unemployment numbers are super manipulated. They carve out people who "can't" find work after a certain period of time. You and I know both know the people we are talking about - living with parents, refuse to accept a job unless it's 6 figs and wfh. They aren't counted in most polls.

$20/hour is absolutely a livable wage are you fucking serious. Get a roommate. Yeah it's not a penthouse with a pool. Correct you cannot live in Times Square or San Fran. But for 99% of this country, if you can't live on $20/hr you are wasting money on stupid bullshit. Is it tough? Absolutely. You are cooking at home, not eating out, no doordash or starbucks.

No, I don't know literally any of the people you are talking about, sorry.

I had three roommates when I started my career a decade ago at about 2x $20/hour. $20/hour is not enough to ever own property and isn't enough to save for retirement. To me a living wage means doing better than a shitty life living paycheck to paycheck until you die.

 

[fskimospy]

No, it's not consistent at all. At first it was literally "unemployed". Then it went to "unemployed but looking for work". In the last decade or so they carved it out again, so that if you're unemployed for a period of time you don't count at all. Maybe manipulated is a strong word, but like all things politicians touch it's not as clear as it should be.

https://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/origins-of-unemployment.pdf

This is false. The metrics are completely consistent over time. It’s just the U1 through U6.

The metrics are completely transparent and whoever else is saying otherwise is lying to you.

 

[PumpkinCake]

You keep talking about your employees wages. Not once have you given us any indication of what you make in comprarison to them. bonuses based off their salaries mean nothing, as it's not tied to company profits.. Meaning, you can make record profits, yet, the employees bonus percentage of their salary doesn't change. I find it comical you claim you fundabmentaly disagree with PPP, yet, you applied for it.. go figure.. But you claim, because of the PPP, you bumped up their bonuses (based off their salaries).. so basically it was us tax payers who paid their bonuses.. huh? And no, you are not obligated to apply for it, and it's not free money.. it's tax payers money that WE paid for. You sit there and try to seperate yourself from Mega Corp CEO's.. yet you use the same excuses and sound just like them... You are not much different, and trying to believe you are, is just lying to yourself.

And no, I am not arguing based off the Mega corps CEO's.. I have worked for both small business and big corporations in the past and watch small business owners do exactly the same thing to their employees as the big corporations do, the only difference is the bigger the company the more the injustices are mulitplied. Many small business owners claim they can't afford to pay any better, on the excuse they are a small business, yet they own a nice big fancy home, they own a summer lake front property, with boats and other recreational vehicles, new or nearly new cars, etc. Yet, their employees struggle every month to pay their rent, put food on the table, and take care of their kids, and some are lucky to have a running vehicle much less a newer one. So please, don't sit there and act like it's just a Mega Corp Ceo issue.. They are the same, the only real differences is the bigger the company the more it multiplies.

Why don't all of these workers leave and just start their own company? It's so easy.... Anyone can do it! Rake in the profit without any risk, investment, worrying or dealing with anything at all!

 

[gothuevos]

I don't have a problem with a lot of what the OP is saying, but my only issue is with the idea that someone slaving away at minimum wage, maybe even two jobs, barely scraping by, now also has to find the time/money/energy to learn a new skill? How? If you're skipping Starbucks you probably are also skipping night school, junior college, trade school, etc.

Self taught on YouTube?

 

[PumpkinCake]

This is false. The metrics are completely consistent over time. It’s just the U1 through U6.

The metrics are completely transparent and whoever else is saying otherwise is lying to you.

They have absolutely changed over time. I have some family shit, dinner etc, but will jump back in tomorrow with citations.