European Farmers Must Keep their Pigs Emotionally Happy

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2704685.stm

Under a new ruling from Brussels, the country's farming community must provide their animals with "manipulable material" to give environmental enrichment.

The European Commission says this includes straw, hay, wood, compost or sawdust.

The aim is to keep animals contented and also prevent them from attacking each other.

I'm fine with this. I'd pay a little more to know the animals I eat aren't miserable. I'm sure this will make some people angry though...
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
LOL. My first thought was that calling a pig a pig was to be considered hate speech......ala ********......and that said speech should be banned.......

Edit.....what "Neck tard" is now censored? What the fuck this place is ridiculous sometimes.......
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Who cares if they are miserable or not? They are FOOD. South Park nailed it again where they showed the turkey being all happy and then the saw blade comes and chops all their heads off.

What business is it of government to mandate how the FOOD feels? If it increases yields and a better quality product then that is up to the PRODUCER of FOOD. See what I'm getting at here? It's the PRODUCER of FOOD that is being asked to raise operating cost via government mandate. What do you think that will do to the cost of food?

I'll think about this next time when I bleed out a stripped bass after hauling that fat 20 pound pig into the boat. Was she happy the last 10 minutes of her life while I fought her and drained all her energy then yanked her from her happy roaming place? Was she embarrassed when we all took pictures and laughed while she was still alive? Spent, she has little energy to move, let alone put up a fight in the boat. Her eyes tell me "just get it over with". And I do.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,455
7
81
Who cares if they are miserable or not? They are FOOD. South Park nailed it again where they showed the turkey being all happy and then the saw blade comes and chops all their heads off.

What business is it of government to mandate how the FOOD feels? If it increases yields and a better quality product then that is up to the PRODUCER of FOOD. See what I'm getting at here? It's the PRODUCER of FOOD that is being asked to raise operating cost via government mandate. What do you think that will do to the cost of food?

I'll think about this next time when I bleed out a stripped bass after hauling that fat 20 pound pig into the boat. Was she happy the last 10 minutes of her life while I fought her and drained all her energy then yanked her from her happy roaming place? Was she embarrassed when we all took pictures and laughed while she was still alive? Spent, she has little energy to move, let alone put up a fight in the boat. Her eyes tell me "just get it over with". And I do.

same as how all gas stations are required to provide air/water and bathrooms for the public......at cost to the gas station..... thanks government for forcing us to take on additional expenses! I wonder who pays to clean up the graffiti.....
 
May 11, 2008
23,264
1,567
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Who cares if they are miserable or not? They are FOOD. South Park nailed it again where they showed the turkey being all happy and then the saw blade comes and chops all their heads off.

What business is it of government to mandate how the FOOD feels? If it increases yields and a better quality product then that is up to the PRODUCER of FOOD. See what I'm getting at here? It's the PRODUCER of FOOD that is being asked to raise operating cost via government mandate. What do you think that will do to the cost of food?

I'll think about this next time when I bleed out a stripped bass after hauling that fat 20 pound pig into the boat. Was she happy the last 10 minutes of her life while I fought her and drained all her energy then yanked her from her happy roaming place? Was she embarrassed when we all took pictures and laughed while she was still alive? Spent, she has little energy to move, let alone put up a fight in the boat. Her eyes tell me "just get it over with". And I do.

Because people in the EU care about what they eat.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Because people in the EU care about what they eat.

Now, I do a lot of business in Europe. I'm always impressed by the selection of meats (seriously, it's very nice). Mad Cow anyone? (cue the 'but if we didn't have da regulations we be eattin mad cow).

You can care about what you eat all day long, I don't. It's food and making the food happy means nothing unless it makes the FOOD more productive.

Free market says if I can't produce a quality product at a price the market demands then I will fail.

Look at organic shit, twice or thrice the price for no better quality. I don't give a shit how my food feels (aww, the plant feels bad). If the europee-ons do then that is their own downfall.

Keep in mind I grow most of my own vegtables and I know what a "happy plant" is. It's a plant given plenty fertilizer, sun and base elements.

I say again - if PRODUCER wants to PRODUCE a superior product and a premium price, great. Because that producer is laughing all the way to the bank at the fools who buy it as being "better".

Fucking monster cable of food the idiots are following.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I only read the thread title (and William), considering the quality of commentators, but good for them for anti-cruelty measures.

Surprisingly, our own American right-wing might actually support this bill, if it means what they hope about keeping their farm animals in a good mood. Now, that's freedom!
 
May 11, 2008
23,264
1,567
126
Now, I do a lot of business in Europe. I'm always impressed by the selection of meats (seriously, it's very nice). Mad Cow anyone? (cue the 'but if we didn't have da regulations we be eattin mad cow).

You can care about what you eat all day long, I don't. It's food and making the food happy means nothing unless it makes the FOOD more productive.

Free market says if I can't produce a quality product at a price the market demands then I will fail.

Look at organic shit, twice or thrice the price for no better quality. I don't give a shit how my food feels (aww, the plant feels bad). If the europee-ons do then that is their own downfall.

Keep in mind I grow most of my own vegtables and I know what a "happy plant" is. It's a plant given plenty fertilizer, sun and base elements.

I say again - if PRODUCER wants to PRODUCE a superior product and a premium price, great. Because that producer is laughing all the way to the bank at the fools who buy it as being "better".

Fucking monster cable of food the idiots are following.

Actually, i have payed a premium price for meat that came from animals that had roamed free instead of being caged. The improved taste of the meat is noticeable. In the article it is mentioned that toys are needed, that is a bit much. Although pigs are in general way more intelligent then dogs or cats, a simple ball would become boring i expect. Enough space is more important.

Regulations is not a bad thing. For example the EU does not allow the bovine growth hormone. It is a good thing. I am sure not all farmers oblige the rules, but that will always happen. It is just a small percentage. I am not going in a discussion about unregulated free market and how flawed it is. That is useless i have learned for people who can only see a 3 month future forecast.

EDIT:

I do not know how much different stress hormones are from species to species.
But if stress hormones from animals have a similar effect on us, according to some psychologists, the body retains memories about situations. This seems spooky, but i can imagine if you are always in a stressful situation, that your body has elevated levels of stress hormones as well. If it can make a difference i do not know. There is organ meat and muscle meat. I would think organ meat might show elevated levels of stress but that is just my guess. It is just an idea. Not a proven theory.
 
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gaidensensei

Banned
May 31, 2003
2,851
2
81
Hmm, it's not a bad idea. If they do this with an effort towards keeping their livestocks happy, I'm all for it. However I don't feel effects from the meat quality will be seen. Most livestock swine live to up to a year tops or so from what I recall being mentioned at an UC Davis' slaughterhouse exhibition.

While it may seem beneficial to keep them happy, it just doesn't seem to provide tremendous benefits by turning on a light bulb and starting to get a six month old swine on an exercise regimen. It would probably be more likely be noticeable if they were exercised from the start, the moment they were a few weeks old. However, all in all I doubt the average (american) consumer has a skill in determining meat quality of the food, using our fast food joints and the meat as a sole example.

I did a quick look at peer reviewed resources, one study in France concluded findings that associate muscle pH, ATP composition and muscle glycogen content as the main variables.

I do not know how much different stress hormones are from species to species.
But if stress hormones from animals have a similar effect on us, according to some psychologists, the body retains memories about situations. This seems spooky, but i can imagine if you are always in a stressful situation, that your body has elevated levels of stress hormones as well. If it can make a difference i do not know. There is organ meat and muscle meat. I would think organ meat might show elevated levels of stress but that is just my guess. It is just an idea. Not a proven theory.

Any kind of hormones, including stress hormones, serve similar functions in most if not all vertebrates. Just about anything with a nervous system would have hormones, I'd think. The sole function of hormones when distributed through the body are to enter cell plasma membranes and bind to the receptors, and while in this conformation, finally latch onto the targeted DNA that instruct for changes in response.

We and animals have different hormones for situations. Take for example when we are frightened (during stress), epinephrine (also commonly known as adrenaline) is released throughout the body and all receptor cites that can use it allow it to bind and latch on causing changes: in the eyes, the pupils may get larger, the lungs breath quicker, blood is pumped quicker, your liver (cells) utilize stored glycogen for the extra energy, and so on.

But these are all short term effects, when adrenaline hormones are regulated, your system returns to normal. Talk long term, like a pig being happy induced in high serotonin levels, and the (short) long term effects. The meat is going to be of better quality.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Now, I do a lot of business in Europe. I'm always impressed by the selection of meats (seriously, it's very nice). Mad Cow anyone? (cue the 'but if we didn't have da regulations we be eattin mad cow).

You can care about what you eat all day long, I don't. It's food and making the food happy means nothing unless it makes the FOOD more productive.

Free market says if I can't produce a quality product at a price the market demands then I will fail.

Look at organic shit, twice or thrice the price for no better quality. I don't give a shit how my food feels (aww, the plant feels bad). If the europee-ons do then that is their own downfall.

Keep in mind I grow most of my own vegtables and I know what a "happy plant" is. It's a plant given plenty fertilizer, sun and base elements.

I say again - if PRODUCER wants to PRODUCE a superior product and a premium price, great. Because that producer is laughing all the way to the bank at the fools who buy it as being "better".

Fucking monster cable of food the idiots are following.

Do you not realize that animal cruelty is illegal in America?

Remember Michael Vick? Who cares about how dogs feel??
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
One scientific study showed that pigs actually prefer to be a little crowded. They like occasionally rubbing up against each other and can be very playful. It may sound silly, but happy pigs are healthier pigs that eat and exercise more. The problem is most are raised separately in tiny concrete pens that barely allow them to move.Something as stupid as a ball they can push around with their nose, a bit of straw on the concrete floor, etc. is all the law demands. These are never going to be happy pigs, but making them completely miserable and feeding them junk food to fatten them up is certainly not a healthy practice.

The vast majority of people I've heard complain about such laws have no clue what they are talking about and would throw up if they actually raised and processed their own meat the way it is already done. They remind me of inner city kids who when asked where food comes from say, "the factory".
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Requiring farmers to provide straw is hardly an overly burdensome requirement. The fact that it pisses spidey07 off is a bonus :)
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,847
154
106
Who cares if they are miserable or not? They are FOOD. South Park nailed it again where they showed the turkey being all happy and then the saw blade comes and chops all their heads off.

Even hunters know that when they shoot and kill an animal, that critical first shot needs to be well placed. If a hunter can drop an animal and it dies within seconds, that is the most optimal method. Opposed to wounding the animal and then running it for a few miles while following a blood trail stresses the animal out, floods the animal's system with all kinds of undesirable chemicals and actually taints the meat and alters the flavor ( I am over-simplifying here). In addition to being humane and kind to an animal (somethng I don't want to overlook), a happy animal leads to higher meat quality.

I normally wouldn't go and quote South Park as a way to back up my argument but in this case, they actually have it right that they keep the turkey happy until moment of death.
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,779
882
126
There is only one way to keep someone happy... feed them bacon. ;)

I wonder if people mind if you let a animal be a bit cannibalistic.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
I wonder if people mind if you let a animal be a bit cannibalistic.

Worked out well when European farmers ground up the animals' fallen brethren and fed the corpses back to them. Not like Mad Cow Disease was spread or anything like that...

Animals should be kept in reasonable, sanitary conditions in order to prevent the spread of disease.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
You cannot assign human emotions to animals that do not have our brain. That shit doesn't even make sense. Yes pigs are smart, I love pigs they are one of my favorite animals and they produce my favorite foods.(I also happen to be a big fan of the letter P so there is that too). But really? They are batteries in which we store energy for us to refill. If you look at it any more than that, you're a moron who is projecting human bs onto animals that don't have the capacity to feel or think the way we do. I'm all for not treating our food like garbage, but making sure they're "emotionally happy" is retarded. Farm animals have a great life. They get fed, they get to hang out all day and then they get slaughtered for the good of another species. Whereas our deaths are mostly pointless.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I am all for anti-cruelty laws for livestock. It pisses me off to see people abusing an animal in a pen. And would send them to the bolt gun if I had my way. But this is ridiculous. How do they measure a pigs mood? Provided they arent abused. I dont see the point in trying to make them "happy".
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
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It's amazing to me that in countries that are just completely messed up (e.g., supporting caste systems, intense racism, genocidal tendencies, etc.) that they waste their time thinking about pigs and what not instead of actual real world problems.
 

gaidensensei

Banned
May 31, 2003
2,851
2
81
I am all for anti-cruelty laws for livestock. It pisses me off to see people abusing an animal in a pen. And would send them to the bolt gun if I had my way. But this is ridiculous. How do they measure a pigs mood? Provided they arent abused. I dont see the point in trying to make them "happy".

Serotonin levels. Serotonin is (taking a personal opinion here) responsible for happiness in all 'higher' vertebrates capable of emotions. I would wager that meat pH is a direct effect, but I personally think it isn't going to produce a dramatic difference in a perfect world situation.