EU expands at Midnight: adds 10 nations; 25 total 450 million Citizens

[Czar]

CanOWorms,
sorry havent been following this flame fest at all, but what is the issue you are trying to get through?

 

[freegeeks]

omg, do you want me to scan and upload my passport, driver's license, social security card, credit cards, and me holding a picture of this screen printed out??? i will do all sorts of sane things to prove myself to you!!!

I don't care what you do and I don't believe you

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Czar
CanOWorms,
sorry havent been following this flame fest at all, but what is the issue you are trying to get through?

in a nutshell

Europe=bad <-> USA=good

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Czar
CanOWorms,
sorry havent been following this flame fest at all, but what is the issue you are trying to get through?

Nothing anymore, we're just going in circles.

My point was that Slovenia has serious human rights issues. I brought it up since someone mentioned Turkey and its problems preventing it being accepted by the EU, yet Slovenia has very serious issues.

Of course FreeGeeks had to come in with his mighty wit and derail the thread to deflect attention on a serious human rights issue. Pretty normal behavior for him. Then his buddy klixxer came in with his views that people were equal under apartheid, that people are bad if they have different cultures and languages, etc.

It was a very simple point.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

omg, do you want me to scan and upload my passport, driver's license, social security card, credit cards, and me holding a picture of this screen printed out??? i will do all sorts of sane things to prove myself to you!!!

I don't care what you do and I don't believe you

but i'm uploading it right now!

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Czar
CanOWorms,
sorry havent been following this flame fest at all, but what is the issue you are trying to get through?

in a nutshell

Europe=bad <-> USA=good

No. You're such a super-patriot, it's disgusting. You're just like those Bush-worshippers who say that if you're anti-Bush, then you're anti-American. You just can't take any criticism at all, just like some Bush-worshippers.

 

[freegeeks]

No. You're such a super-patriot, it's disgusting. You're just like those Bush-worshippers who say that if you're anti-Bush, then you're anti-American. You just can't take any criticism at all, just like some Bush-worshippers.

I don't believe you

 

[Czar]

CanOWorms,
I do agree with you that some of the eastern europe countries have serious human right issues which in my opinion should have been resolved before they were allowed in the EU



freegeeks,
so what is your issue that you are trying to get through?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

No. You're such a super-patriot, it's disgusting. You're just like those Bush-worshippers who say that if you're anti-Bush, then you're anti-American. You just can't take any criticism at all, just like some Bush-worshippers.

I don't believe you

Of course you won't, you're blinded by hate and a dangerous extreme super-patriotism.

poor frankie If only he uploaded his passport, driver's license, and birth certificate, he would have been a hero here and all over the world

 

[freegeeks]

Of course you won't, you're blinded by hate and a dangerous extreme super-patriotism.

poor frankie If only he uploaded his passport, driver's license, and birth certificate, he would have been a hero here and all over the world

poor CanOdildo - all that anger and frustration - what happened? - did some European punk stole the only GF you ever had. That would certainly explain all the Eurohating

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Of course you won't, you're blinded by hate and a dangerous extreme super-patriotism.

poor frankie If only he uploaded his passport, driver's license, and birth certificate, he would have been a hero here and all over the world

poor CanOdildo - all that anger and frustration - what happened? - did some European punk stole the only GF you ever had. That would certainly explain all the Eurohating

Holy crap. I... I.... just don't know how to respond to that. I'm trembling in fear.... it's like.... I've been obliterated by some.... master or genius of psychology... this man, Frankie Nolf must be a hidden PhD in our midst! How else could he have come up with CanOdildo? I submit to thee!

 

[freegeeks]

Holy crap. I... I.... just don't know how to respond to that. I'm trembling in fear.... it's like.... I've been obliterated by some.... master or genius of psychology... this man, Frankie Nolf must be a hidden PhD in our midst! How else could he have come up with CanOdildo? I submit to thee!

admit it, it was a good find!!!!!

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

"18% of your country" does not mean my country? christ, STOP IT!

Yes. Obviously you have a poor grasp of the English language. This is pretty obvious from the fact that you couldn't even spell 1 of 2 words of your special insult correctly.

I am a super patriot? Bah, i would rather return to Finland, what do you have more than your bs claims?

Yes, you are a super-patriot. You and FreeGeeks should start a club.

I think human rights is THE issue, something that should be beyond a soldier to ever stamp on, but still US soldiers do it, and why? Because of bad leadership, racism, because the US was built on racism, it was the red fvckers who were savages, then the black fvckers who were slaves, now it is the brown fvckers, good for cannon fodder and invasions without specific purposes or just lies are ok....

And you are calling *US* racists, man, as i told you before, put down that pipe, it is rotting your last brain cell.

I'm not calling all Europeans racists. However, racism is a big problem in Europe compared to US or Canada. I've experienced it first-hand in Europe as well.

Any European that wants to talk about history automatically loses. Considering that Europeans completely slaughtered Native Americans, brought slavery in the first place when they were European colonies, etc. Then let's not forget all the other things like crusades, holocaust, world wars, their adventures all over the globe, slaughter of entire peoples and civilizations for materialistic gain. No one has ever and most likely never will come close to what Europeans did.

We say to anti-apartheid activists, civil rights activists (it has been a LONG time since we had any slaves, i hear there are 24% of the US that wants slaves back though, maybe you should fight that) that we are all equal, we are born equal, an no matter who YOU are, you have a right to get treatment, forget your payment for your cancer treatment, you will get it, even if you cannot pay for it yourself, how about that?

Even the poor are equal to the rich in terms of medical treatment here, how about that?

And you speak of equality, don't make me laugh, if the US is anything it is unequal.

There's no point arguing with you. Look at your own statement. You were probably brought up in a family of hate, so hate is all you know. You'd tell anti-apartheid activists, civil rights activists, etc. that everyone is equal when in South Africa people weren't equal? Or do you actually believe they were somehow equal? This is just getting ridiculous.

Your openly discrimanatory comments are disturbing. However, it is hilarious to watch an open racist try to justify his beliefs yet also try to say that he loves everyone.

People are not equal when citizenship is based on ethnicity. People aren't equal when a minority group is specifically being targetted. Anti-immigrant &amp; racist views are fostered by growing &amp; rabid racist political parties.

There is no point at all arguing with someone who KNOWS what you don't. Now, where in europe is citizenship based on ethnicity? I am Semitic you dumb fvck and i can get a citizenship in any country if i have the ability to pass the language test, christ, you uneducated idiots bore me to death.

In Slovenia, as i have told you before you stupid little man, you are not automatically a citizen because you are there, just like everywhere in the world, you have to pass the tests, i KNOW for a fact that the US has these tests too, if i could only speak russian like the people who won't get citizenship in Slovenia, i would not be able to pass the tests in US either, get it?

The best you can do is twist my words, and you do that well herr canoshit, but it does nothing for your argument.

I mentioned that i am a Semite, my parents escaped the holocaust because of a Swede named Wallenberg put them on a train to Finland, now i am living in Germany, i have tried to fight for what i believe in all my life, and here you come, some young punk from a far away land who read a few articles and you tell me that europe is anti-semitic and racist? You tell ME that i am?

You need to get over yourself and stop believing in everything you read.

Slovenia only gave citizenship to people of a certain ethnicity. If you were of a minority, you had to apply. Some had problems and 95% of the population voted that these people aren't even humans. They were not illegal immigrants. They were working there, living there. A lot of Slovenian soldiers were erased. So was a former Miss Slovenia.

Germany itself used to have ethnicity-based rules in its citizenship requirements.

Let's not forget Denmark and their wantig to implement a process where "foreign" people born there have apply for citizenship and be reviewed. How can you be foreign when you're born there? I believe Ireland is talking about this, too.

You've already said that people with different cultures are not fit to be humans. Now you're saying that people that don't know the language are. Go away, bigot.

For fvcks sake, where did i say that people with different cultures aren't fit to be humans? You are pulling quotes out of your sorry behind.


The US itself used to have ethnicity based rules in it's citizenship requirements.

Now go away you bigot.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

"18% of your country" does not mean my country? christ, STOP IT!

Yes. Obviously you have a poor grasp of the English language. This is pretty obvious from the fact that you couldn't even spell 1 of 2 words of your special insult correctly.

I am a super patriot? Bah, i would rather return to Finland, what do you have more than your bs claims?

Yes, you are a super-patriot. You and FreeGeeks should start a club.

I think human rights is THE issue, something that should be beyond a soldier to ever stamp on, but still US soldiers do it, and why? Because of bad leadership, racism, because the US was built on racism, it was the red fvckers who were savages, then the black fvckers who were slaves, now it is the brown fvckers, good for cannon fodder and invasions without specific purposes or just lies are ok....

And you are calling *US* racists, man, as i told you before, put down that pipe, it is rotting your last brain cell.

I'm not calling all Europeans racists. However, racism is a big problem in Europe compared to US or Canada. I've experienced it first-hand in Europe as well.

Any European that wants to talk about history automatically loses. Considering that Europeans completely slaughtered Native Americans, brought slavery in the first place when they were European colonies, etc. Then let's not forget all the other things like crusades, holocaust, world wars, their adventures all over the globe, slaughter of entire peoples and civilizations for materialistic gain. No one has ever and most likely never will come close to what Europeans did.

We say to anti-apartheid activists, civil rights activists (it has been a LONG time since we had any slaves, i hear there are 24% of the US that wants slaves back though, maybe you should fight that) that we are all equal, we are born equal, an no matter who YOU are, you have a right to get treatment, forget your payment for your cancer treatment, you will get it, even if you cannot pay for it yourself, how about that?

Even the poor are equal to the rich in terms of medical treatment here, how about that?

And you speak of equality, don't make me laugh, if the US is anything it is unequal.

There's no point arguing with you. Look at your own statement. You were probably brought up in a family of hate, so hate is all you know. You'd tell anti-apartheid activists, civil rights activists, etc. that everyone is equal when in South Africa people weren't equal? Or do you actually believe they were somehow equal? This is just getting ridiculous.

Your openly discrimanatory comments are disturbing. However, it is hilarious to watch an open racist try to justify his beliefs yet also try to say that he loves everyone.

People are not equal when citizenship is based on ethnicity. People aren't equal when a minority group is specifically being targetted. Anti-immigrant &amp; racist views are fostered by growing &amp; rabid racist political parties.

There is no point at all arguing with someone who KNOWS what you don't. Now, where in europe is citizenship based on ethnicity? I am Semitic you dumb fvck and i can get a citizenship in any country if i have the ability to pass the language test, christ, you uneducated idiots bore me to death.

In Slovenia, as i have told you before you stupid little man, you are not automatically a citizen because you are there, just like everywhere in the world, you have to pass the tests, i KNOW for a fact that the US has these tests too, if i could only speak russian like the people who won't get citizenship in Slovenia, i would not be able to pass the tests in US either, get it?

The best you can do is twist my words, and you do that well herr canoshit, but it does nothing for your argument.

I mentioned that i am a Semite, my parents escaped the holocaust because of a Swede named Wallenberg put them on a train to Finland, now i am living in Germany, i have tried to fight for what i believe in all my life, and here you come, some young punk from a far away land who read a few articles and you tell me that europe is anti-semitic and racist? You tell ME that i am?

You need to get over yourself and stop believing in everything you read.

Slovenia only gave citizenship to people of a certain ethnicity. If you were of a minority, you had to apply. Some had problems and 95% of the population voted that these people aren't even humans. They were not illegal immigrants. They were working there, living there. A lot of Slovenian soldiers were erased. So was a former Miss Slovenia.

Germany itself used to have ethnicity-based rules in its citizenship requirements.

Let's not forget Denmark and their wantig to implement a process where "foreign" people born there have apply for citizenship and be reviewed. How can you be foreign when you're born there? I believe Ireland is talking about this, too.

You've already said that people with different cultures are not fit to be humans. Now you're saying that people that don't know the language are. Go away, bigot.

For fvcks sake, where did i say that people with different cultures aren't fit to be humans? You are pulling quotes out of your sorry behind.


The US itself used to have ethnicity based rules in it's citizenship requirements.

Now go away you bigot.

You argued pretty heavily for the vote that these people aren't equal because you said that they don't speak the language or follow the culture.

Well of course the US did. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about what's happening today. However, having ethnicity-based citizenship nowadays is sort of strange. Didn't Germany have these restrictions until 2000? Now we see Slovenia using it in the 90s, along with Denmark and Ireland contemplating it, with Denmark having widespread support for it.

Times change. We should advance forward in thinking, not backwards.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Of course you won't, you're blinded by hate and a dangerous extreme super-patriotism.

poor frankie If only he uploaded his passport, driver's license, and birth certificate, he would have been a hero here and all over the world

poor CanOdildo - all that anger and frustration - what happened? - did some European punk stole the only GF you ever had. That would certainly explain all the Eurohating

Canoshit had a girlfriend, man that is like the crap he tries to spew, to unreal to be true.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

"18% of your country" does not mean my country? christ, STOP IT!

Yes. Obviously you have a poor grasp of the English language. This is pretty obvious from the fact that you couldn't even spell 1 of 2 words of your special insult correctly.

I am a super patriot? Bah, i would rather return to Finland, what do you have more than your bs claims?

Yes, you are a super-patriot. You and FreeGeeks should start a club.

I think human rights is THE issue, something that should be beyond a soldier to ever stamp on, but still US soldiers do it, and why? Because of bad leadership, racism, because the US was built on racism, it was the red fvckers who were savages, then the black fvckers who were slaves, now it is the brown fvckers, good for cannon fodder and invasions without specific purposes or just lies are ok....

And you are calling *US* racists, man, as i told you before, put down that pipe, it is rotting your last brain cell.

I'm not calling all Europeans racists. However, racism is a big problem in Europe compared to US or Canada. I've experienced it first-hand in Europe as well.

Any European that wants to talk about history automatically loses. Considering that Europeans completely slaughtered Native Americans, brought slavery in the first place when they were European colonies, etc. Then let's not forget all the other things like crusades, holocaust, world wars, their adventures all over the globe, slaughter of entire peoples and civilizations for materialistic gain. No one has ever and most likely never will come close to what Europeans did.

We say to anti-apartheid activists, civil rights activists (it has been a LONG time since we had any slaves, i hear there are 24% of the US that wants slaves back though, maybe you should fight that) that we are all equal, we are born equal, an no matter who YOU are, you have a right to get treatment, forget your payment for your cancer treatment, you will get it, even if you cannot pay for it yourself, how about that?

Even the poor are equal to the rich in terms of medical treatment here, how about that?

And you speak of equality, don't make me laugh, if the US is anything it is unequal.

There's no point arguing with you. Look at your own statement. You were probably brought up in a family of hate, so hate is all you know. You'd tell anti-apartheid activists, civil rights activists, etc. that everyone is equal when in South Africa people weren't equal? Or do you actually believe they were somehow equal? This is just getting ridiculous.

Your openly discrimanatory comments are disturbing. However, it is hilarious to watch an open racist try to justify his beliefs yet also try to say that he loves everyone.

People are not equal when citizenship is based on ethnicity. People aren't equal when a minority group is specifically being targetted. Anti-immigrant &amp; racist views are fostered by growing &amp; rabid racist political parties.

There is no point at all arguing with someone who KNOWS what you don't. Now, where in europe is citizenship based on ethnicity? I am Semitic you dumb fvck and i can get a citizenship in any country if i have the ability to pass the language test, christ, you uneducated idiots bore me to death.

In Slovenia, as i have told you before you stupid little man, you are not automatically a citizen because you are there, just like everywhere in the world, you have to pass the tests, i KNOW for a fact that the US has these tests too, if i could only speak russian like the people who won't get citizenship in Slovenia, i would not be able to pass the tests in US either, get it?

The best you can do is twist my words, and you do that well herr canoshit, but it does nothing for your argument.

I mentioned that i am a Semite, my parents escaped the holocaust because of a Swede named Wallenberg put them on a train to Finland, now i am living in Germany, i have tried to fight for what i believe in all my life, and here you come, some young punk from a far away land who read a few articles and you tell me that europe is anti-semitic and racist? You tell ME that i am?

You need to get over yourself and stop believing in everything you read.

Slovenia only gave citizenship to people of a certain ethnicity. If you were of a minority, you had to apply. Some had problems and 95% of the population voted that these people aren't even humans. They were not illegal immigrants. They were working there, living there. A lot of Slovenian soldiers were erased. So was a former Miss Slovenia.

Germany itself used to have ethnicity-based rules in its citizenship requirements.

Let's not forget Denmark and their wantig to implement a process where "foreign" people born there have apply for citizenship and be reviewed. How can you be foreign when you're born there? I believe Ireland is talking about this, too.

You've already said that people with different cultures are not fit to be humans. Now you're saying that people that don't know the language are. Go away, bigot.

For fvcks sake, where did i say that people with different cultures aren't fit to be humans? You are pulling quotes out of your sorry behind.


The US itself used to have ethnicity based rules in it's citizenship requirements.

Now go away you bigot.

You argued pretty heavily for the vote that these people aren't equal because you said that they don't speak the language or follow the culture.

Well of course the US did. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about what's happening today. However, having ethnicity-based citizenship nowadays is sort of strange. Didn't Germany have these restrictions until 2000? Now we see Slovenia using it in the 90s, along with Denmark and Ireland contemplating it, with Denmark having widespread support for it.

Times change. We should advance forward in thinking, not backwards.

OK, so you are for automatic citizenship for any immigrants, illegal or otherwise to the US? NO? YOU BIGOT YOU!

Get it? You are trying to make something out of what it is not, they are simply wanting their own very new country to have some rules, ONE language is one of these things, that papers make it into something it is not is not uncommon, remember that next time you read an article, look at the basement of the article, follow that through and THEN look at the article, many times it is just ridiculous assesments based on interpretations.

OF COURSE THE US DID, you say, but that is unimportant, US isn't part of EU and you can't very well accuse your own country for ANY wrongdoings, now can you?

Slovenia is doing something that EVERY counrty has done when it was created, there is nothing wrong with that, learn the language or get out, it is the same in almost every country, except the US where you are of course welcomed as an illegal immigrant, with flowers and ice cream?

Once again, daft one, it has NOTHING to do with ethnicity.

I am out of this thread, if you haven't gotten it by now, go take a comprehension class.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

OK, so you are for automatic citizenship for any immigrants, illegal or otherwise to the US? NO? YOU BIGOT YOU!

They were not illegal immigrants. They were living there, working there, some born there, soldiers, etc. Even a former Miss Slovenia was one of the erased. How can you be a former Miss Slovenia if you're an illegal alien?

I'm not even talking about illegal immigration. If it was just that, then it would not be a problem. Seems like you need to do more reading on this topic. Or again, you're just trying to blindly justify discrimination.

Get it? You are trying to make something out of what it is not, they are simply wanting their own very new country to have some rules, ONE language is one of these things, that papers make it into something it is not is not uncommon, remember that next time you read an article, look at the basement of the article, follow that through and THEN look at the article, many times it is just ridiculous assesments based on interpretations.

The poll was recent. The country was split apart over 10 years ago. They did not have a disaster. They're not a third world country. They're well decently well off.

Obviously ONE ethnicity was one of the things they want. I'm not sure why you're even bringing up language since this was based on ethnicity, not language. Another pathetic justification of discrimination based on ethnicity.

OF COURSE THE US DID, you say, but that is unimportant, US isn't part of EU and you can't very well accuse your own country for ANY wrongdoings, now can you?

So, if European and US and other countries had slavery in the past, is it OK for Slovenia to enslave their minorities? Your justification for discrimination and hate is very extreme.

I guess it was OK for South Africa to say the same thing to people who were against apartheid.

I accuse the US so many times on this forum, lol. I'm not blinded by super-patriotism like you. You should be cautious of super-patriotism considering where that got Germany in the not so distant past.

Slovenia is doing something that EVERY counrty has done when it was created, there is nothing wrong with that, learn the language or get out, it is the same in almost every country, except the US where you are of course welcomed as an illegal immigrant, with flowers and ice cream?

Once again, daft one, it has NOTHING to do with ethnicity.

LOL, it has EVERYTHING to do with ethnicity. It was not based on language at all. It was based on ethnicity. WTF are you talking about, lol.

Again, don't talk about the past. It's not OK for Slovenia to open up concentration camps just because Germany did it in the past. This is a horrible justification. You're probably one of the most disgusting people on this entire forum. I'm shocked at these things you say.

I just cannot believe that anyone can be so outright openly racist, yet pretend that they're not. You seriously need to clarify some of your statements.

I am out of this thread, if you haven't gotten it by now, go take a comprehension class.

You're telling me to take one? LOL

You HAVE to be some sort of gimmick or joke. There is no way anyone would say what you say. You should be banned for the things you've said. This is just too ridiculous.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Xiety

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Xiety

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: burnedout
Meanwhile, even though Turkey has held NATO membership for 52 years, the 'great' Jacques Chirac says that the Turks aren't fit for entry into the EU.

The Turks need to stop killing Kurds, routinely using torture in thier security services, and a whole host of other human rights issues before they can enter the EU.

you must be the most ignorant person I have ever seen.

You must be of Turkish descent.

No, I have Kurdish heritage. But I am Turkish, because I was borned in Turkey (raised elsewhere) and love that country more than any other.

Shall I say "OWNED"? No, I'll keep it up with you. Yes, I am Kurdish, I was born in Turkey, but my parents have Kurdish heritage and I love Turks and Kurds equally. I actually love any human being, maybe that's just me but anyways, please don't throw out ideas about Turks and Kurds when you don't know anything about it. It's a very sensitive issue, but although foreign media tries to change every single fact, Turks and Kurds live together happily. It was the terrorist group PKK (aka Kadek) that tried to take advantage of Kurds, brainwashing them to kill 30,000 Turkish citizens (whether it be Turks or Kurds) over the course of 20 years, so Turkish military didn't have any choice other than killing (during combat of course, if caught alive, they got prisoned) the militants. Please don't tell me this is what U.S., Britain, or any other Western country would not do. I lived all around Europe, and have been living in U.S. for the past decade and I can honestly tell you that although Turkey definetly has a lot to do before EU should even consider them, Turks are not killing Kurdish people.

Also, one last thing, torture is something every nation uses to gather information. You may not see on the paper, or TV, but its there. Heck, U.S. just bypassed torture, went straight to war

I was just stating that you must be from that area because of that statement you made. Looks like I was right!

 

[Turgon]

Europe is absolutely pathetic. The economic conditions in the EU are stagnant at best, unemployment is high, European world influence is rapidly decreasing, and even more troubling is the fact that birthrates in the EU are so low that the extinction of "native" European people is in the not so distant future. Population loss is so severe that even if Europe returned to replacement rate growth today, current generation population loss will be close to 1/3. The Arabs, Persians, and Africans will inherit Europe.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Turgon
Europe is absolutely pathetic. The economic conditions in the EU are stagnant at best, unemployment is high, European world influence is rapidly decreasing, and even more troubling is the fact that birthrates in the EU are so low that the extinction of "native" European people is in the not so distant future. Population loss is so severe that even if Europe returned to replacement rate growth today, current generation population loss will be close to 1/3. The Arabs, Persians, and Africans will inherit Europe.

Its kind of funny that this was your first post!

 

[Turgon]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Turgon
Europe is absolutely pathetic. The economic conditions in the EU are stagnant at best, unemployment is high, European world influence is rapidly decreasing, and even more troubling is the fact that birthrates in the EU are so low that the extinction of "native" European people is in the not so distant future. Population loss is so severe that even if Europe returned to replacement rate growth today, current generation population loss will be close to 1/3. The Arabs, Persians, and Africans will inherit Europe.

Its kind of funny that this was your first post!

My former identity was FrodoB. I made a foolish mistake updating my email address in my profile and now have no way of receiving my new password for FrodoB. I like my new nickname, though. Only true Tolkien geeks are familiar with Turgon.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
maybe the Euro will come tumbling down, so I can actually afford an European vacation

I hope so, hopefully before I get there this summer.