Eric Schmidt predicts developers will prioritize Android over iOS in 6 months

[poofyhairguy]

Also if I buy a new PC a new game will run on it, it might be slow depending on the video card. But it will run, there are high end Android phones where games won't run. Blame the developers, blame Nvidia for making Targa 3 so closed. But that's still fragmentation of the ecosystem. The hilarious thing is there'll be quad core phones with PS3 level GPU's in a few years that probably won't run games on the market today, because of the Tagra 3 thing.

That is more like the situation that a PS3 can't play 360 games. I never heard anyone complain that the video game market suffered from "fragmentation."

 

[Puddle Jumper]

But if I buy a game on Origin it WILL NOT show up when I run Steam, and visa versa. If I buy an app from Amazon and it's coming up as purchased on Play, yet I can't install it from Play or update it from Play when Play says there's a damn update. That's fucking fragmentation, the least Google could do is be smart enough to know the app came from an outside source and not show it on my list of apps on their Play store. Also if I buy a new PC a new game will run on it, it might be slow depending on the video card. But it will run, there are high end Android phones where games won't run. Blame the developers, blame Nvidia for making Targa 3 so closed. But that's still fragmentation of the ecosystem. The hilarious thing is there'll be quad core phones with PS3 level GPU's in a few years that probably won't run games on the market today, because of the Tagra 3 thing.

But I'm done with this argument, you think whatever you want here, I just know I have apps that won't run on my latest generation phone. Call it whatever, I call it fragmentation.

You could download BF3 from Origin and it would not run at all on Windows XP.

 

[QueBert]

That is more like the situation that a PS3 can't play 360 games. I never heard anyone complain that the video game market suffered from "fragmentation."

PS3 and 360's are clearly different, even my tech illiterate mom knows that. Are you really saying I shouldn't expect my high end ANDROID phone to play an ANDROID game I bought on the ANDROID Market place?

I don't care who's to blame for this, it's fucking fragmentation.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

PS3 and 360's are clearly different, even my tech illiterate mom knows that. Are you really saying I shouldn't expect my high end ANDROID phone to play an ANDROID game I bought on the ANDROID Market place?

I don't care who's to blame for this, it's fucking fragmentation.

So basically fragmentation= anything you don't like about Android.

 

[Eug]

It's sad: It's the Linux-on-the-desktop attitude all over again.

 

[Ns1]

So Steam and Origin are part of the Windows ecosystem?

If I launch my own App Store for Android tomorrow and distribute a few apps with it does that store magically become an official Android app store?

This isn't iOS, anyone can write Android compatible apps without any restrictions. If you can't think outside the iOS box just stick with Google Play and uncheck the option for installing unknown sources.

When I buy shit on steam or origin I expect it to work in any supported version of windows. So yes I consider the products out of steam and origin part of the widows ecosystem

 

[poofyhairguy]

PS3 and 360's are clearly different, even my tech illiterate mom knows that. Are you really saying I shouldn't expect my high end ANDROID phone to play an ANDROID game I bought on the ANDROID Market place?

Well yeah if it is a clearly marked "Tegra 3" game.

That is like saying:

"Are you really saying I shouldn't expect my high end GAME console to play an GAME I bought on the GAMEstop?"

Regular people get that things aren't always compatible. If you want to play 360 games buy a 360. If you want to play Tegra 3 games buy a Tegra 3 phone.

Your problem is you lump all Android devices into a single group like the iPhones are.

The iOS ecosystem is like the US- a few different devices (states) under the same set of strict rules (Feds).

The Android ecosystem is like the EU- many different sets of rules (different Android phones) loosely held together by single currency (Android Market).

If you don't like one, the other is an option. That is why neither has a "problem," just a different set of priorities.

 

[Ns1]

If you want to play Tegra 3 games buy a Tegra 3 phone.

Are these ever listed under SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS or something to that effect?

If yes, then fine. If no, then LOL

 

[QueBert]

Well yeah if it is a clearly marked "Tegra 3" game.

That is like saying:

"Are you really saying I shouldn't expect my high end GAME console to play an GAME I bought on the GAMEstop?"

Regular people get that things aren't always compatible. If you want to play 360 games buy a 360. If you want to play Tegra 3 games buy a Tegra 3 phone.

2 Games I bought last month, NBA Jams & Pro Soccer Zombie, neither are Tegra 3, and neither run on my Note. Neither's what you'd call a high end game. I'm not talking just Tegra 3 here. There are hundreds of entry level games that won't run on certain devices. And while it's not Google's fault, neither developer wants to get back to me about when/if these games I paid money for will work on my new phone. And I'm also not talking the BF3 Win XP thing. I don't expect a Droid 1 to play every game on the market. But outside of Tegra 3 specific games imho I believe it's reasonable for me to expect my Galaxy Note can play them. Since I'm heavily invested in the ecosystem, apparently next phone I buy I'm going to have to research every single app I've bought to ensure compatibly. Which is going to basically next to impossible.

 

[poofyhairguy]

It's sad: It's the Linux-on-the-desktop attitude all over again.

What is sad is that you see that as a bad thing. I remember when I first got an Android device and I realized "Hey this is like my old friend desktop Linux!"

I love desktop Linux for what it is, just like I love Android for what it is. Desktop Linux's flexibility allows neat sub-OSes like XBMCbuntu, Unraid, and Fedora to co-exist, just like Android's flexibility allows different optimal configurations to exist- the business user (Razr Maxx), the gamer (Tegra 3 devices), the teenager (Droids and their keyboards).

I'll take that flexibly and the inherent difficulties it causes over the one-size-fits-all iOS anyday.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Are these ever listed under SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS or something to that effect?

If yes, then fine. If no, then LOL

Every Tegra 3 game I have bought tells you its a Tegra 3 game, and often there is a big clue in the name of the app (something like "THD").

In fact, Nvidia providers a storefront (Tegra Zone) to make it easy to know what games are best for my Tegra 3 device.

 

[poofyhairguy]

2 Games I bought last month, NBA Jams & Pro Soccer Zombie, neither are Tegra 3, and neither run on my Note. Neither's what you'd call a high end game. I'm not talking just Tegra 3 here. There are hundreds of entry level games that won't run on certain devices. And while it's not Google's fault, neither developer wants to get back to me about when/if these games I paid money for will work on my new phone.

Those then are crappy developers with crappy games. iOS is FULL of crappy games/apps that can act up sometimes. Heck I wasted a freaking hour yesterday trying to get my wife's Smurf Village to work on her iPad after an update nuked it. Is that Apple's fault?

In fact Google DOES do something about crappy games (compared to iOS)- they give you 15 minutes to find out if its a crappy game or not before the money is gone for good.

But outside of Tegra 3 specific games imho I believe it's reasonable for me to expect my Galaxy Note can play them. Since I'm heavily invested in the ecosystem, apparently next phone I buy I'm going to have to research every single app I've bought to ensure compatibly. Which is going to basically next to impossible.

I don't think that is reasonable. I think that is a plus if things work in the generic app store. Where did you get that expectation? Surely not from Google or Samsung.

What is reasonable is to expect every app on the phone to work properly, and for anything you get from Samsung's App Store to work properly as that is the ecosystem for your phone.

Just like I expect every Amazon app to work on a Fire, and every Tegra Zone app to work on my Prime.

 

[Skel]

It's sad: It's the Linux-on-the-desktop attitude all over again.

Are you refering to the "people are too stupid to understand how awesome Linux is" or something else?

and Linux is awesome...

 

[Ns1]

I don't think that is reasonable. I think that is a plus if things work in the generic app store. Where did you get that expectation? Surely not from Google or Samsung.

What is reasonable is to expect every app on the phone to work properly, and for anything you get from Samsung's App Store to work properly as that is the ecosystem for your phone.

I guess those from the "it just works" mentality do not find that reasonable because we have an expectation that "shit just works".

going around in circles now so i'm leaving this thread.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I guess those from the "it just works" mentality do not find that reasonable because we have an expectation that "shit just works".

Exactly my point. In the history of computerdom, how often has shit "Just Worked?"

NEVER

Where did you get that "mentality" from? Certainly not from Windows, which has had years of blue screens, crappy drivers, and incompatible apps.

The "Just Works" thing is a mirage created by Apple that only appears to be real due to a lack of choices. And the mirage pops eventually- if the iPhone 5 does have a higher res screen then all those apps with black space on the screen won't "Just Work."

The Android market has mechanism for feedback for incompatible apps in the ratings systems. If NBA Jams & Pro Soccer Zombie doesn't work then give them a crap rating. Either the developers fix the problems or they have to deal with having a bad rating which hurts their income potential.

Between that and the 15 minute refund you are covered as an Android user.

The people who DO have a SMALL right to complain are those who are caught in the middle with such a system- the developers. They have to constantly work to keep making money from their apps. They can't just make an app and sit back and collect the money.

And to that I say tough shit.

That is how it always used to be in Windows and before. Remember DOS "fragmentation?" As I said before, the "Just Works" thing is the exception in the history of technology. People expect computers to be "hard" for a good reason.

The whole iOS goldmine was a bubble. App development is not supposed to be easy- the market doesn't work if everyone can be millionaires just by cranking out a fart app.

App development is like any other job if the market is efficient- you have to keep working at it and you have to deal with issues like new software/hardware as it comes up.

Developers have a right to stay in the iOS bubble if they don't have the chops to survive in a real app market, or hell they can make console games where they only have to target one piece of hardware.

Only they can't complain if their competitor gets first mover advantage on new markets like Android, or the fact that their competitors in iOS or consoleland can use the extra resources they get from those platforms being easier to raise the bar in app quality.

Quite simply if you aren't willing to work hard then the app market or any market isn't sympathetic and you will fail. That is how markets work.

The iOS gold rush is over. It was a nice bubble that popped. Developers either need to put their nose down and spend the time to make their apps more compatible, or they need to make their apps only install on certain devices (the Google market lets you do that) and just accept that they are missing out on revenue.

 

[runawayprisoner]

The iOS gold rush is over. It was a nice bubble that popped. Developers either need to put their nose down and spend the time to make their apps more compatible, or they need to make their apps only install on certain devices (the Google market lets you do that) and just accept that they are missing out on revenue.

Just as an aside, from a mobile developer's perspective, I'd say it is a fact that iOS is far easier to develop for, and Apple does put in (a lot) more work to make sure that developing for the platform isn't a chore.

And it is also a fact that even if iOS had 10 more different physical screen sizes and resolutions + hardware configurations to deal with, it is still far easier to develop for than Android because most of the compatibility layer has been simplified by Apple.

Prime example: OpenGL ES 2.0.

To get the same thing working on Android, I need to write approximately 2x to 3x the initializer code on Android as opposed to iOS, and to optimize performance, that would easily double once again.

It's dead easy to get OpenGL ES working in iOS. Just subclass GLKit and you're off to writing the next Unreal Engine.

Well, perhaps not that advanced, but just to say... Apple does make a lot of things easier for developers, while Google just pushes APIs to developers and basically say "do it".

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Just as an aside, from a mobile developer's perspective, I'd say it is a fact that iOS is far easier to develop for, and Apple does put in (a lot) more work to make sure that developing for the platform isn't a chore.

And it is also a fact that even if iOS had 10 more different physical screen sizes and resolutions + hardware configurations to deal with, it is still far easier to develop for than Android because most of the compatibility layer has been simplified by Apple.

Prime example: OpenGL ES 2.0.

To get the same thing working on Android, I need to write approximately 2x to 3x the initializer code on Android as opposed to iOS, and to optimize performance, that would easily double once again.

It's dead easy to get OpenGL ES working in iOS. Just subclass GLKit and you're off to writing the next Unreal Engine.

Well, perhaps not that advanced, but just to say... Apple does make a lot of things easier for developers, while Google just pushes APIs to developers and basically say "do it".

I wouldn't say iOS development is chore free by any means. To be blunt Objective-C is a horrible language and Xcode is slow and unintuitive.

Most developers I know who have worked with both platform prefer Android hands down for development.

 

[runawayprisoner]

I wouldn't say iOS development is chore free by any means. To be blunt Objective-C is a horrible language and Xcode is slow and unintuitive.

Most developers I know who have worked with both platform prefer Android hands down for development.

Objective-C is a horrible language indeed, but it's not that hard to learn unless you never had any coding experience to begin with.

Xcode is slow and unintuitive? That's the first I have heard of that. Unless the machine it runs on is slow to begin with (due to design, some older Macs overheat and throttle their processors down to almost 40% their original clocks), I don't think I can ever say that it's slow.

Whether it's unintuitive is also debatable. It works well for its intended purposes, and Apple has introduced some welcome improvements in recent updates. I know I like it far better than other IDEs... like Eclipse.

But it's not Xcode that's the star. It's the iOS API stack. The API stack of iOS tremendously reduces the effort needed to write iOS softwares. I'd LOVE to talk to those guys who have developed on both platforms that you mentioned, because I have NEVER met a single person in the Bay area that likes working with Android.

Ironically, that also includes some Google employees. If even Google employees find developing for Android harder than writing codes for iOS, what does that tell ya?

 

[Eug]

Are you refering to the "people are too stupid to understand how awesome Linux is"

Yes. Engineers and developers have to understand their target market usually isn't engineers and developers.

I ran into this issue with a friend's website. He, a businessman, and his computer engineering friend did not understand why I told them it was a bad idea for them to design the website for his business. They did the website anyway, with the computer engineer doing all the code... and it sucked royally. They liked it, but everyone else hated it, including their customers. Later on, they got an advertising executive as a business partner, and she came up with a more consumer-friendly less complex design, with the computer engineer writing the code.

What is sad is that you see that as a bad thing. I remember when I first got an Android device and I realized "Hey this is like my old friend desktop Linux!"

I love desktop Linux for what it is, just like I love Android for what it is. Desktop Linux's flexibility allows neat sub-OSes like XBMCbuntu, Unraid, and Fedora to co-exist, just like Android's flexibility allows different optimal configurations to exist- the business user (Razr Maxx), the gamer (Tegra 3 devices), the teenager (Droids and their keyboards).

I'll take that flexibly and the inherent difficulties it causes over the one-size-fits-all iOS anyday.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks for the amusingly illustrative post.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Eric Schmidt predicts developers will prioritize Android over iOS in 6 months

Everyone should have known this was shockingly far fetched. Have you looked at all of the Android devices coming out lately? I haven't seen one that I can recall with a screen 3.5" or smaller, and Steve Jobs made it very clear that noone would ever buy a phone with a screen larger then 3.5". Obviously there aren't very many Android devices being sold, if you don't admit to the honesty of that fact you are clearly just a stupid phandroid anyway. Steve Jobs spoke, obviously His accuracy is absolute, and He clearly explained why noone would buy any current Android device. Not even the phandroids, they don't even buy Android phones, He has already spoken on the subject.

 

[badb0y]

Everyone should have known this was shockingly far fetched. Have you looked at all of the Android devices coming out lately? I haven't seen one that I can recall with a screen 3.5" or smaller, and Steve Jobs made it very clear that noone would ever buy a phone with a screen larger then 3.5". Obviously there aren't very many Android devices being sold, if you don't admit to the honesty of that fact you are clearly just a stupid phandroid anyway. Steve Jobs spoke, obviously His accuracy is absolute, and He clearly explained why noone would buy any current Android device. Not even the phandroids, they don't even buy Android phones, He has already spoken on the subject.

Despite all this iOS is still lead platform for apps.

you mad?

 

[QueBert]

Everyone should have known this was shockingly far fetched. Have you looked at all of the Android devices coming out lately? I haven't seen one that I can recall with a screen 3.5" or smaller, and Steve Jobs made it very clear that noone would ever buy a phone with a screen larger then 3.5". Obviously there aren't very many Android devices being sold, if you don't admit to the honesty of that fact you are clearly just a stupid phandroid anyway. Steve Jobs spoke, obviously His accuracy is absolute, and He clearly explained why noone would buy any current Android device. Not even the phandroids, they don't even buy Android phones, He has already spoken on the subject.

iOS rules the mobile app market by like a 10x margin, this won't change in 6 months, hell this probably won't change in 6 years. This Eric Schmidt guy's a dip shit.

 

[MrX8503]

Everyone should have known this was shockingly far fetched. Have you looked at all of the Android devices coming out lately? I haven't seen one that I can recall with a screen 3.5" or smaller, and Steve Jobs made it very clear that noone would ever buy a phone with a screen larger then 3.5". Obviously there aren't very many Android devices being sold, if you don't admit to the honesty of that fact you are clearly just a stupid phandroid anyway. Steve Jobs spoke, obviously His accuracy is absolute, and He clearly explained why noone would buy any current Android device. Not even the phandroids, they don't even buy Android phones, He has already spoken on the subject.

Did Steve jobs specifically say 3.5" or did he say big phones? There are android phones that are 3.5" or smaller.

 

[WelshBloke]

Despite all this iOS is still lead platform for apps.

you mad?

Not really, I have a great choice of devices on Android. Screen size, what material its constructed from, screen res, etc.

I also have a massive amount of paid and free apps to choose from.

 

[ponyo]

Did Steve jobs specifically say 3.5" or did he say big phones? There are android phones that are 3.5" or smaller.

Jobs actual quote: "You could make a really big smartphone that doesn’t have this problem — some of these guys are making Hummers now — so big you can’t get your hand around it. But no one’s going to buy that." July 16, 2010.

He was responding to question about antenna issue. 3.7" Nexus One was released January 5, 2010. 4.3" HTC EVO was released on June 4, 2010. 4.0" Galaxy S was released July 15, 2010.