Eric Schmidt predicts developers will prioritize Android over iOS in 6 months

[Puddle Jumper]

Denial. Tell me why CM9 development for the first 5 months focused on basic device compatibility. Only since May or so have they been putting in dozens of regular CM7 features. CM9 is way slower on coming out than CM7 was.

Furthermore, just ask developers why it takes so long for apps to roll out. They have to make it compatible for all devices. Also look at many app updates. Changelogs like "Fix for Droid Bionic" or whatever the hell like that is retarded. It's the US phones that usually need special fixes here and there because most people develop for standard devices like the SGS2 and don't care about Moto's dumb 858x480.

I don't think you've debunked crap honestly. To deny that there isn't fragmentation and that it doesn't affect app development is really shoving your head up your ass. Even the staunchest Android phanboi should recognize that.

ROM development is completely irrelevant since it's not part of the phones intended function.

 

[Eug]

Yeah, I'd have to agree that 3rd party ROM development doesn't count, and is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Ns1]

Siri doesn't run on older iPhones! OMG FRAGMENTATION!!!

 

[Nothinman]

I would guess that most of the incompatibilities with devices are the fault of the manufacturer and their custom frameworks like HTC Sense and Motoblur. And this is something that Google is doing more to limit going forward.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

ROM development is completely irrelevant since it's not part of the phones intended function.

Okay, but it's indicative of fragmentation. The fact that you need to reinvent the wheel for each device for rooting, ROMs, etc, that wastes precious developers resources.

For the SGS2 we just got a good kernel, and now he's jumped ship to the SGS3. Oh sorry either we have to settle with an almost done product or jump to a new product, shell out $600 and start from scratch? Android's development's always in an almost-there stage and then by the time you get close to solving these issues, a new device is there.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Okay, but it's indicative of fragmentation. The fact that you need to reinvent the wheel for each device for rooting, ROMs, etc, that wastes precious developers resources.

For the SGS2 we just got a good kernel, and now he's jumped ship to the SGS3. Oh sorry either we have to settle with an almost done product or jump to a new product, shell out $600 and start from scratch? Android's development's always in an almost-there stage and then by the time you get close to solving these issues, a new device is there.

No, it's not. All it's indicative of is the fact that developers are trying to build roms without the proper resources to do so. As for rooting it should be pretty obvious why that varies from device to device.

Maybe CM9 is just the problem, we have solid AOKP builds of 4.0.4 for the Galaxy S2 i777. or you could always buy a GNex if you want stock ICS.

 

[Red Storm]

Okay, but it's indicative of fragmentation. The fact that you need to reinvent the wheel for each device for rooting, ROMs, etc, that wastes precious developers resources.

For the SGS2 we just got a good kernel, and now he's jumped ship to the SGS3. Oh sorry either we have to settle with an almost done product or jump to a new product, shell out $600 and start from scratch? Android's development's always in an almost-there stage and then by the time you get close to solving these issues, a new device is there.

Again, this is community mod work we're talking about, where YMMV is the one and only truth. It's not really a part of what this discussion is about.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

No, it's not. All it's indicative of is the fact that developers are trying to build roms without the proper resources to do so. As for rooting it should be pretty obvious why that varies from device to device.

Maybe CM9 is just the problem, we have solid AOKP builds of 4.0.4 for the Galaxy S2 i777. or you could always buy a GNex if you want stock ICS.

Uh no. The reason every device is at a different stage is because of fragmentation--every device works very differently (different SOCs, etc etc). Sure you can argue they don't have the right resources but that doesn't debunk fragmentation. I think the only thing you could say about ROM use is that it's not for everybody, so this type of fragmentation doesn't hurt as much.

Let me use the example of the SGS1 phone. The Nexus S used the same hardware and as a result the SGS1 phones got a lot of dev work. CM9 works beautifully. Better than my SGS2 for a while. Now the SGS2 uses Exynos while the GNex uses OMAP. Uh oh. Why is the SGS2 so fucked in CM9 development? And now a newer variant of the SGS2 has the OMAP processor. That *may* have better luck, but at the same time it pulls potential talent away from the original SGS2 (Exynos) development.

Rooting is pretty obvious why it varies device to device? It may be, but that's a problem. Let's look at ATI cards for an example. In CCC you can unlock overclocking. It works the same way for every card. Now modding voltages might be different, but many tools work similarly. What I'm saying is each time vendors try different root protection, it takes a whole month or two of dev work to figure this out. Jailbreaking on the other hand is pretty similar across the board. There were the early devices, then there were the gen2 devices, and the new iPad, but overall it's not a completely fragmented world... or at least as bad.

The point is this kind of fragmentation forces developers to spend time working on dozens of devices to do the same thing. I'm not saying we should have ONE Android phone, but if we had a clear popular choice (kinda like SGS2), then we have more developers working on it and it gets further along in development. I factor this into my purchase decision too. It's unfortunate the SGS3 is a bit ugly and not as clear of a winner compared to the SGS2, but it'll probably be the leader again, though the One X should be a close runner up.

 

[Red Storm]

Uh no. The reason every device is at a different stage is because of fragmentation--every device works very differently (different SOCs, etc etc). Sure you can argue they don't have the right resources but that doesn't debunk fragmentation. I think the only thing you could say about ROM use is that it's not for everybody, so this type of fragmentation doesn't hurt as much.

Let me use the example of the SGS1 phone. The Nexus S used the same hardware and as a result the SGS1 phones got a lot of dev work. CM9 works beautifully. Better than my SGS2 for a while. Now the SGS2 uses Exynos while the GNex uses OMAP. Uh oh. Why is the SGS2 so fucked in CM9 development? And now a newer variant of the SGS2 has the OMAP processor. That *may* have better luck, but at the same time it pulls potential talent away from the original SGS2 (Exynos) development.

Rooting is pretty obvious why it varies device to device? It may be, but that's a problem. Let's look at ATI cards for an example. In CCC you can unlock overclocking. It works the same way for every card. Now modding voltages might be different, but many tools work similarly. What I'm saying is each time vendors try different root protection, it takes a whole month or two of dev work to figure this out. Jailbreaking on the other hand is pretty similar across the board. There were the early devices, then there were the gen2 devices, and the new iPad, but overall it's not a completely fragmented world... or at least as bad.

The point is this kind of fragmentation forces developers to spend time working on dozens of devices to do the same thing. I'm not saying we should have ONE Android phone, but if we had a clear popular choice (kinda like SGS2), then we have more developers working on it and it gets further along in development. I factor this into my purchase decision too. It's unfortunate the SGS3 is a bit ugly and not as clear of a winner compared to the SGS2, but it'll probably be the leader again, though the One X should be a close runner up.

All your examples of fragmentation always seem to deal with community ROM work. That by it's very nature is fragmented, you're talking about guys who do this stuff in their free time. It's not officially supported, has a huge YMMV label all over it, and really has nothing to do with the actual fragmentation that people are trying to discuss.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Again, this is community mod work we're talking about, where YMMV is the one and only truth. It's not really a part of what this discussion is about.

My point is fragmentation exists because everytime Bateleur comes in he says he's debunked fragmentation and its a myth. That's full of shit.

As for apps, if you talk to developers, there's plenty of issues. Even camera apps for example have to be tailored for every phone. Smugmug, a very popular gallery for photographers, released an iOS camera app and when asked where's the Android one, they replied on Twitter saying fragmentation is holding them up and they need a bit more time. Oh whoops.

My friend is making a tip app and he's so frustrated because he has to make it for various resolutions and to make sure that it works.

I've also cited plenty of apps on the Market where it says the most recent changes were things like: "Fixes for Droid Bionic." "Fixes for HTC One X." Yeah tell me they don't have to waste a bunch of time working things out for individual devices. I remember working with devs once to figure out the whole Droid 1/Milestone 858x480 resolution for their app. Now if we had standard resolutions....

 

[Red Storm]

My point is fragmentation exists because everytime Bateleur comes in he says he's debunked fragmentation and its a myth. That's full of shit.

As for apps, if you talk to developers, there's plenty of issues. Even camera apps for example have to be tailored for every phone. Smugmug, a very popular gallery for photographers, released an iOS camera app and when asked where's the Android one, they replied on Twitter saying fragmentation is holding them up and they need a bit more time. Oh whoops.

My friend is making a tip app and he's so frustrated because he has to make it for various resolutions and to make sure that it works.

I've also cited plenty of apps on the Market where it says the most recent changes were things like: "Fixes for Droid Bionic." "Fixes for HTC One X." Yeah tell me they don't have to waste a bunch of time working things out for individual devices. I remember working with devs once to figure out the whole Droid 1/Milestone 858x480 resolution for their app. Now if we had standard resolutions....

I just can't feel sorry for app makers who complain about something like variable resolution. Maybe it's because I'm a PC user and a complaint like that really comes off as just whiny to me.

As an Android user, I do not see or experience this mythical fragmentation. There are outlier apps on both iOS and Android that have the odd issue.

 

[QueBert]

So, if I'm understanding this thread correctly, I can buy an app on the Play Store and my dad can buy the same add on the Amazon App store. With there being a good possibility that they won't be updated the same, resulting in different versions. That pay or may not even be compatible. Which ironically's kind of important for the types of app where you can share data.

But this isn't fragmentation right? Could someone PLEASE explain to me what the hell it is then? I'm obviously completely clueless here. And telling me that "most people use the Play store" isn't a good counter argument as BOTH are ANDROID app stores.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

So, if I'm understanding this thread correctly, I can buy an app on the Play Store and my dad can buy the same add on the Amazon App store. With there being a good possibility that they won't be updated the same, resulting in different versions. That pay or may not even be compatible. Which ironically's kind of important for the types of app where you can share data.

But this isn't fragmentation right? Could someone PLEASE explain to me what the hell it is then? I'm obviously completely clueless here. And telling me that "most people use the Play store" isn't a good counter argument as BOTH are ANDROID app stores.

The Amazon app store is not part of the Android ecosystem so it is not fragmentation.

 

[QueBert]

The Amazon app store is not part of the Android ecosystem so it is not fragmentation.

You should tell that to my DAD who gets ANDROID APPS from there.

 

[Ns1]

The Amazon app store is not part of the Android ecosystem so it is not fragmentation.

this is not how a user who downloads android apps from the amazon app store sees it.

android app = android ecosystem

 

[Puddle Jumper]

You should tell that to my DAD who gets ANDROID APPS from there.

Damn, I guess Windows is horribly fragmented then since Steam and Origin don't carry all of the same games.

this is not how a user who downloads android apps from the amazon app store sees it.

android app = android ecosystem

How did that user get the Amazon App Store?

 

[QueBert]

Damn, I guess Windows is horribly fragmented then since Steam and Origin don't carry all of the same games.



How did that user get the Amazon App Store?

With an APP he downloaded from PLAY. It shows him apps offered on Amazon with links to download them. Never mind though, we have a very different definition of what fragmentation is.

Since you know a lot, why don't you give my pops a call and explain to him why the Play store says he has 2 updates, but it won't update the apps because he downloaded them from Amazon and not Play. Even though the app he used to find said apps was downloaded from Play.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

With an APP he downloaded from PLAY. It shows him apps offered on Amazon with links to download them. Never mind though, we have a very different definition of what fragmentation is.

Since you know a lot, why don't you give my pops a call and explain to him why the Play store says he has 2 updates, but it won't update the apps because he downloaded them from Amazon and not Play. Even though the app he used to find said apps was downloaded from Play.

So once they downloaded the .apk file from amazons site what did they have to do to get the Amazon App Store installed? They had to enable NON MARKET sources complete with a disclaimer that they were doing so at their own risk.

Amazon's App store is an app store for Android not an Android app store. You are trying to put everything in terms of iOS when it is nothing like Android in this case. Android is much closer to Windows, anyone can create whatever apps or app stores they want and distribute them.

 

[Red Storm]

So once they downloaded the .apk file from amazons site what did they have to do to get the Amazon App Store installed? They had to enable NON MARKET sources complete with a disclaimer that they were doing so at their own risk.

Amazon's App store is an app store for Android not an Android app store. You are trying to put everything in terms of iOS when it is nothing like Android in this case. Android is much closer to Windows, anyone can create whatever apps or app stores they want and distribute them.

Exactly. iOS != Android. They do things differently. It seems those who expect them to function identically are the ones who have issues with all this.

It's like "Fragmentation" is being used in place of "It's not exactly like iOS"

 

[Skel]

One thing I’ve learned by reading this forums is that nothing’s ever wrong with Android. To say it’s lacking at all is to cause a holy war where no matter what proof is brought to the table it’s dismissed. Only when the new version of the software is released can we agree that there was a problem with the old version, and even then it’s mostly the phone manufacture’s fault. Any fragmentation it might have is only caused by the app makers. It’s their fault for not having a clue how to program for Android.

 

[Ns1]

How did that user get the Amazon App Store?

who cares? end result = i'm downloading android apps = I expect to be in the android ecosystem.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I just can't feel sorry for app makers who complain about something like variable resolution. Maybe it's because I'm a PC user and a complaint like that really comes off as just whiny to me.

This. A million times this.

Some asked me this week (when they noticed my SGS2 instead of my old iPhone) what I disliked about the iPhone. My answer:

"Because it turned the community of app developers into spoiled babies."

 

[QueBert]

So once they downloaded the .apk file from amazons site what did they have to do to get the Amazon App Store installed? They had to enable NON MARKET sources complete with a disclaimer that they were doing so at their own risk.

Amazon's App store is an app store for Android not an Android app store. You are trying to put everything in terms of iOS when it is nothing like Android in this case. Android is much closer to Windows, anyone can create whatever apps or app stores they want and distribute them.

But if I buy a game on Origin it WILL NOT show up when I run Steam, and visa versa. If I buy an app from Amazon and it's coming up as purchased on Play, yet I can't install it from Play or update it from Play when Play says there's a damn update. That's fucking fragmentation, the least Google could do is be smart enough to know the app came from an outside source and not show it on my list of apps on their Play store. Also if I buy a new PC a new game will run on it, it might be slow depending on the video card. But it will run, there are high end Android phones where games won't run. Blame the developers, blame Nvidia for making Targa 3 so closed. But that's still fragmentation of the ecosystem. The hilarious thing is there'll be quad core phones with PS3 level GPU's in a few years that probably won't run games on the market today, because of the Tagra 3 thing.

But I'm done with this argument, you think whatever you want here, I just know I have apps that won't run on my latest generation phone. Call it whatever, I call it fragmentation.

 

[poofyhairguy]

who cares? end result = i'm downloading android apps = I expect to be in the android ecosystem.

Those aren't Android apps. They are Amazon apps that just happen to work on Android devices (for now).

 

[Puddle Jumper]

who cares? end result = i'm downloading android apps = I expect to be in the android ecosystem.

So Steam and Origin are part of the Windows ecosystem?

If I launch my own App Store for Android tomorrow and distribute a few apps with it does that store magically become an official Android app store?

This isn't iOS, anyone can write Android compatible apps without any restrictions. If you can't think outside the iOS box just stick with Google Play and uncheck the option for installing unknown sources.