Eric Garner all over again

[HumblePie]

You are so wrong! Just so wrong! This was gone over earlier in this thread....
Statistics for 2019:
Police killed 265 African Americans
Police killed 350 Caucasians

Black people make up 12% of the population.
white people make up 60% of the population.

So if you're black you're like five times more likely to be killed by a cop. I guess since 350 > 265, that makes the number technically higher for us white people. But I know which one I'd rather be if I was pulled over by a LEO.

And if we take into account justified vs unjustified killings by the police? A good number of those whites killed by police are justified. I don't remember hearing a story about a white person getting choked to death by the police because they were selling cigarettes. Or a knee on their neck until they die because they used a fake $20. I do remember the story of a white person shooting up a movie theater and killing a dozen people. He was taken into custody unharmed. And one who shot up a black church and killed 8 people? He was arrested without so much as a scratch on him.

New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects

A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.

www.npr.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/?itid=sf_

White people are more likely to be shot by police. White officers are less likely to shoot black people than any other race. Black people have more confrontations with police than any other race. Meaning with comparable numbers of contacts, non-black are more likely to be shot by police. If you want to compare against population per capita it looks worse, but you then have to look at other numbers. The vast majority of felony crimes are committed by black people based on conviction rate. Rape, murder, aggravated assaults, and other violent crime are 90% committed by 4% of the population. Who in turn come into contact with police more often as well. If you look at fatal shootings based off police interactions, non-blacks are far more likely to be killed than blacks though. Black officers also kill black suspects far more than white officers. It's a more complex picture than that stupid analogy used in that link before.

Also, some interesting info was released by the autopsy if no one here has posted it. First off, 3 officers were sitting on George. He was also overdosed on meth and phentonol. He wasn't killed by asphyxiation but by heart attack from the drugs. He was complaining of heart problems and breathing problems before being put to the ground. The cops had a hard time getting him out of his vehicle as he was collapsing when they were pulling him out before sitting him next to the wall. The cops didn't kill him here at all.

Medical Examiner: George Floyd Wasn’t Asphyxiated

From the first hours after George Floyd died on Lake Street in Minneapolis, the rush to convict the officers who took him into custody seemed unstoppable. The frenzy was fueled by a video of one of…

www.powerlineblog.com

 

[BUTCH1]

That is not really true. It is entirely possible to meet the requirements of murder 1 by showing that he knew that Floyd was in danger and he continued to apply pressure to his neck. It could easily be argued that when he continued to apply pressure after he was already unresponsive he showed premeditation to make sure that Floyd was dead. That is murder 1.

"Premeditation" means one PLANS on murdering someone, example, your upset with someone about something so you grab a firearm (or any weapon or poison ect.) and plan to intercept and kill that person. This will not be the slam-dunk people are making it out to be, I hope I'm dead wrong though.

 

[Brainonska511]

gaurantee it's cheaper for any insurance company compared to what they have (had) to deal with when a single hurricane runs hell though a few states over a couple of days--it's why most of them refuse to insure in such areas, and why flood insurance anywhere is now a federal thing.

Honestly, if someone is more concerned about property than police literally murdering people, they need to sit quietly in the corner and re-examine their priorities.

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267608370782978048

and another...he's in custody

 

[zinfamous]

Honestly, if you're more concerned about property than police literally murdering people, you need to sit quietly in the corner and re-examine your priorities.

what the fuck? lol

if anything, I'm pointing out there is backup for the costs of damage to property....to remove the stupid argument altogether.

But I'm not ignoring the fact that it does suck for people. I've also pointed out here and in some of the other threads, some small business owners that have had their stores destroyed--but have publically stated that they don't care. They're fine with it. ...they understand. I think, because they get it. "I'll be fine. This is actually important."

Major change, especially societal, tends to leave a lot of broken eggs in its wake. That's the nature of things. Think about Metoo--yeah, it sucks that a couple of dudes are likely going to get falsely accused, but they are statistically insignifanct to the real rapists that are outed, and the fact that the "blood" is needed to really change social order in things like this.

 

[Brainonska511]

what the fuck? lol

if anything, I'm pointing out there is backup for the costs of damage to property....to remove the stupid argument altogether.

But I'm not ignoring the fact that it does suck for people. I've also pointed out here and in some of the other threads, some small business owners that have had their stores destroyed--but have publically stated that they don't care. They're fine with it. ...they understand. I think, because they get it. "I'll be fine. This is actually important."

Major change, especially societal, tends to leave a lot of broken eggs in its wake. That's the nature of things. Think about Metoo--yeah, it sucks that a couple of dudes are likely going to get falsely accused, but they are statistically insignifanct to the real rapists that are outed, and the fact that the "blood" is needed to really change social order in things like this.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. It was a general statement to supplement what you wrote and really targeted at the people whining about the property damage more than the police violence.

 

[IronWing]

*low whistle*

Just titanically bad for an incumbent.

Also lol at the McSally figure. The GOP should just stop spending money there.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268308373503500288

Arizona could end up with two Democratic senators!

 

[K1052]

Arizona could end up with two Democratic senators!

McSally might lose elections for both senate seats in the same state back to back. I’m not certain but that has to be a nearly unparalleled feat.

 

[BUTCH1]

New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects

A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.

www.npr.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/?itid=sf_

White people are more likely to be shot by police. White officers are less likely to shoot black people than any other race. Black people have more confrontations with police than any other race. Meaning with comparable numbers of contacts, non-black are more likely to be shot by police. If you want to compare against population per capita it looks worse, but you then have to look at other numbers. The vast majority of felony crimes are committed by black people based on conviction rate. Rape, murder, aggravated assaults, and other violent crime are 90% committed by 4% of the population. Who in turn come into contact with police more often as well. If you look at fatal shootings based off police interactions, non-blacks are far more likely to be killed than blacks though. Black officers also kill black suspects far more than white officers. It's a more complex picture than that stupid analogy used in that link before.

Also, some interesting info was released by the autopsy if no one here has posted it. First off, 3 officers were sitting on George. He was also overdosed on meth and phentonol. He wasn't killed by asphyxiation but by heart attack from the drugs. He was complaining of heart problems and breathing problems before being put to the ground. The cops had a hard time getting him out of his vehicle as he was collapsing when they were pulling him out before sitting him next to the wall. The cops didn't kill him here at all.

Medical Examiner: George Floyd Wasn’t Asphyxiated

From the first hours after George Floyd died on Lake Street in Minneapolis, the rush to convict the officers who took him into custody seemed unstoppable. The frenzy was fueled by a video of one of…

www.powerlineblog.com

You cannot claim he was "overdosing" on anything, a complete toxicology report has not been released yet and although he probably did resist efforts to get him in the car, that hardly qualifies them to the brutal treatment he got.

 

[alien42]

He was complaining of heart problems and breathing problems before being put to the ground. The cops had a hard time getting him out of his vehicle as he was collapsing when they were pulling him out before sitting him next to the wall. The cops didn't kill him here at all.

disgusting post, i will only respond to the above.

if George Floyd was having "heart problems and breathing problems" and was "collapsing" then why in the world would the cops need to put a knee to his neck face down on the ground for around 9 minutes.

 

[allisolm]

"Premeditation" means one PLANS on murdering someone, example, your upset with someone about something so you grab a firearm (or any weapon or poison ect.) and plan to intercept and kill that person. This will not be the slam-dunk people are making it out to be, I hope I'm dead wrong though.

but there is no premeditation involved here. It's second-degree murder (causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation.)

Sec. 609.19 MN Statutes

 

[Mai72]

New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects

A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.

www.npr.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/?itid=sf_

White people are more likely to be shot by police. White officers are less likely to shoot black people than any other race. Black people have more confrontations with police than any other race. Meaning with comparable numbers of contacts, non-black are more likely to be shot by police. If you want to compare against population per capita it looks worse, but you then have to look at other numbers. The vast majority of felony crimes are committed by black people based on conviction rate. Rape, murder, aggravated assaults, and other violent crime are 90% committed by 4% of the population. Who in turn come into contact with police more often as well. If you look at fatal shootings based off police interactions, non-blacks are far more likely to be killed than blacks though. Black officers also kill black suspects far more than white officers. It's a more complex picture than that stupid analogy used in that link before.

Also, some interesting info was released by the autopsy if no one here has posted it. First off, 3 officers were sitting on George. He was also overdosed on meth and phentonol. He wasn't killed by asphyxiation but by heart attack from the drugs. He was complaining of heart problems and breathing problems before being put to the ground. The cops had a hard time getting him out of his vehicle as he was collapsing when they were pulling him out before sitting him next to the wall. The cops didn't kill him here at all.

Medical Examiner: George Floyd Wasn’t Asphyxiated

From the first hours after George Floyd died on Lake Street in Minneapolis, the rush to convict the officers who took him into custody seemed unstoppable. The frenzy was fueled by a video of one of…

www.powerlineblog.com

#1) For the millionith time white people outnumber blacks 82%-12%. Of course there are going to be more shots fired at whites, because there are many more! Black men are pulled over and harrased by PO much more than white people, although they only make up a very small portion of males. You can actually throw in hispanic males as well. I know you mentioend the stats. I just wanted to restate what you said in my own words.

#2) Did Floyd die by meth and phentonol? Maybe. The fact is people don't trust the police so whatever comes out will be disputed. It could be true. Again, they lost the trust of the black community so no one is going to believe the reports anyway.There is an independent report that refutes your report. Who should we believe?

3) Floyd is a big guy/ No one is arguing that there was a struggle. It did take 3 cops to subdue Floyd. Still doesn't give the cops the right to have him pinned down like that, and to have a knee on the neck of Mr. Floyd is inhumane. I don't care the reasons why officer Derek did it. The amount of time he held his knee in Floyd's neck was totally inappropriate, and again inhumane.

 

[snoopy7548]

All I'm gonna say is, after all the police brutality that has been on display recently, it doesn't matter if cops are more likely to shoot whites vs. blacks. It really doesn't matter at all, and arguing that point is just ridiculous and moot.

If this is what's happening in broad daylight with the world watching, among the dozens of other videos posted in this thread, what happens when nobody is watching?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267599965309763584

Posted this in the Australian reported thread. Other angle of the cops taking it to that incredibly menacing cameraman and reported.

 

[TheVrolok]

All I'm gonna say is, after all the police brutality that has been on display recently, it doesn't matter if cops are more likely to shoot whites vs. blacks. It really doesn't matter at all, and arguing that point is just ridiculous and moot.

If this is what's happening in broad daylight with the world watching, among the dozens of other videos posted in this thread, what happens when nobody is watching?

Exactly this. Police are absolutely out of control in this country, and unfortunately even though the vast vast majority comport themselves with professionalism, it isn't a job where there is any room for this shit. None. Zero tolerance.

 

[JEDIYoda]

New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects

A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.

www.npr.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/?itid=sf_

White people are more likely to be shot by police. White officers are less likely to shoot black people than any other race. Black people have more confrontations with police than any other race. Meaning with comparable numbers of contacts, non-black are more likely to be shot by police. If you want to compare against population per capita it looks worse, but you then have to look at other numbers. The vast majority of felony crimes are committed by black people based on conviction rate. Rape, murder, aggravated assaults, and other violent crime are 90% committed by 4% of the population. Who in turn come into contact with police more often as well. If you look at fatal shootings based off police interactions, non-blacks are far more likely to be killed than blacks though. Black officers also kill black suspects far more than white officers. It's a more complex picture than that stupid analogy used in that link before.

Also, some interesting info was released by the autopsy if no one here has posted it. First off, 3 officers were sitting on George. He was also overdosed on meth and phentonol. He wasn't killed by asphyxiation but by heart attack from the drugs. He was complaining of heart problems and breathing problems before being put to the ground. The cops had a hard time getting him out of his vehicle as he was collapsing when they were pulling him out before sitting him next to the wall. The cops didn't kill him here at all.

Medical Examiner: George Floyd Wasn’t Asphyxiated

From the first hours after George Floyd died on Lake Street in Minneapolis, the rush to convict the officers who took him into custody seemed unstoppable. The frenzy was fueled by a video of one of…

www.powerlineblog.com

You do realize all this was debunked by 2 independent medical examiners?
Why do you claim you want justice, when you are lying to make George the enemy?
You just stepped in your own doo doo....
Of course it was in the intertest of the County Medical Examiner to side with the Police...think about it....

Medical examiner: George Floyd's heart stopped while restrained

A medical examiner classified George Floyd's death as a homicide, saying his heart stopped as police restrained him and suppressed his neck.

abc13.com

 

[darkswordsman17]

*low whistle*

Just titanically bad for an incumbent.

Also lol at the McSally figure. The GOP should just stop spending money there.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268308373503500288

Wow at Wisconsin. Also, WTF Ohio.

I'm not surprised that McSally isn't doing well. I bet even Republicans weren't happy with McSally getting McCain's seat after she lost the election to Sinema.

Speaking of McCain, in one of the Twitter links people posted I scrolled down and it showed McCain's daughter claiming that the area around her building was completely devastated and barely recognizable or something along those lines, and someone posted "We live in the same building, I was just out on the street, its fine."

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am sick ans tired of FOX!! All day long most of their guests have been white and calling for overwhelming force! Plus they have been denying that there is a problem inherent in the criminal Justice system....
I have a feeling that this will not end pretty!
It bothers me alot when some White people...mainly Republicans say there is no problem.......let that sink in......

 

[BUTCH1]

but there is no premeditation involved here. It's second-degree murder (causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation.)

Sec. 609.19 MN Statutes

Exactly, that's why they have charged him correctly, if they tried to go with #1 the defense would have had a big gift. Jesus, if they acquit these guys the reaction will be horrific.

 

[zzyzxroad]

I am sick ans tired of FOX!! All day long most of their guests have been white and calling for overwhelming force! Plus they have been denying that there is a problem inherent in the criminal Justice system....
I have a feeling that this will not end pretty!
It bothers me alot when some White people...mainly Republicans say there is no problem.......let that sink in......

I made the mistake of tuning them in a couple of minutes ago and one of the hosts was pitching some moronic conspiracy that hos death was a hit by the cops. That lloyd was probably part of a counterfit money operation which lead to the hit.

 

[KMFJD]

so uhm....steve bannon?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268328603571240961

distract distract distract

 

[brycejones]

so uhm....steve bannon?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1268328603571240961

distract distract distract

What bender has Bannon been on? He doesn't look so good.

 

[woolfe9998]

"Premeditation" means one PLANS on murdering someone, example, your upset with someone about something so you grab a firearm (or any weapon or poison ect.) and plan to intercept and kill that person. This will not be the slam-dunk people are making it out to be, I hope I'm dead wrong though.

You're likely correct about premeditation. Its definition varies some from state to state, but in general it is very tough to prove unless there is evidence that intent was formed before any physical altercation started. I doubt it could be proven here beyond reasonable doubt.

I do think that M2 is practically a slam dunk here, though. This is an exceedingly clear case of either reckless homicide or intentional without premeditation.

 

[zinfamous]

Exactly, that's why they have charged him correctly, if they tried to go with #1 the defense would have had a big gift. Jesus, if they acquit these guys the reaction will be horrific.

I still don't understand why the other two aren't facing the exact same charges--they compressed his chest cavity and bear the exact same responsibility for killing George Floyd that the first cop does.

Now, I get that this has very much to do with the "banality of evil" that just burns your soul from seeing that human trash sit on George Floyd's neck, his hands in his pockets, just calmly murdering a man, and so that "impact" has flooded all of our minds and I think has very much influenced the difference in degree of the charges.

...I get that, but I'm not sure if it's justice, if the 3 of them are equally responsible for the same crime (I can see the 4th getting accessory/abetting murder).

I did here that the 3 can receive "the same punishment," but is that true? Why would such very different charges created for different degrees carry the same weight of punishment? Even if they may qualify for the same potential sentences, I would think that sentencing recommendations often differ between such charges, as well as potential for parole?

 

[zinfamous]

What bender has Bannon been on? He doesn't look so good.

He's been swammi'd away at some Italian mountain palace/monastery forming some ridiculous new world order group of overly-moneyed, talking head, adderol-snorting homunculi that fancy themselves the future Masters of the Dessicated Universe.

No, seriously:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

...but it seems that Italy has soured on his group's established purpose to fund, inspire, and run their own literal Nazi parties.

No, seriously:

Bannon’s Populists, Once a ‘Movement,’ Keep Him at Arm’s Length (Published 2019)

For months the former Trump adviser promised to help far-right forces unify before European Parliament elections. Now they’re moving on without him.

www.nytimes.com

Why Doesn’t Steve Bannon Matter in Europe?

The former Trump strategist has spent the past year trying to bolster far-right parties on the Continent—with little to show for it.

www.theatlantic.com

(FT has an article headlined "Italy revokes Bannon's lease on Monastery," dated late 2019, I think--no article that I can access, so I won't post that)

He must have run out of his Seinfeld money....and, well, Europe is generally less tolerant of Nazis than we are in the US. Look at how quickly that shit in Italy and France fizzled out after barely a year (in terms of centralized power, anyway).

I guess it makes sense that he's now allying with some fringe anti-establishment Chinese group, making bold promises to change the world in a matter of days.

He's a guy that talks a lot, commands an impressive vocabulary, knows bother powerful and interesting people, but has never said anything that could be considered "smart."

 

[shortylickens]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267608370782978048

and another...he's in custody

Brandishing and assault with a deadly weapon.
Of course he's white, so he'll get community service at the amusement park of his choice.
He looks like a Six Flags kinda guy.

The best part?
It didnt even work, the crowd just pushed forward a little bit.