Ergonomic, orthopedic-friendly, Shoes

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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,329
14,713
126
i tried those step into foam molding orthodics because they were cheaper than getting a new set of custom orthodics.
nope, didn't feel as good.
easy return for full refund.

the custom one at the time was made with plaster casting material, like for a arm or leg cast.

The step mould was good enough for me. They still make custom inserts from it. It's not like the memory foam in ski boots where they use hot air to mould.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,238
7,968
136
i had arch problems in both feet since i was a teenager.
went to a podiatrist that was on my dad's insurance.
he recommended custom orthodics.

that did the trick for 15yrs.
Just kept on getting a new pair when padding got too worn.

downside: even with padding, it wasnt that comfortable for wearing long periods.

my problem is that the arches the comes with shoes dont feel high enough for support.
then one day i passed by a Rockport store.
i decided to try every shoe in the store.

I actually found one that felt great: Rockport Prowalkers

Wore those without the orthodics and i was fine!
Had to replace them every 2 years then i saw they had a buy 1 get 1 50% off sale.
bought 2 pairs so i didnt need to buy for 4 yrs.

but when it was time to buy, they CHANGED the Prowalkers design but still called it Prowalkers. :(
it was a completely different shoe!
And now i can't find the originals anywhere.

I saw a orthopedist just before Covid.
she recommended custom orthodics made by scanning your foot with a laser.
insurance doesnt cover and costs $800. :eek:

i decided to try the cheaper route of off the shelf orthodics from walmart.
if i dont like, i can return.
yup, returned ALL of them.

Then more research led me to Superfeet Green high arch orthodics.
i'm using them in sketchers for the past 18months.
Now i notice my Achilles tendon thickening. :eek:

I might have to bite the bullet and get the $800 orthodics.
I have a big pile of orthotics and such on my dining room table just now. I tried all kinds of stuff. Lately I'm sticking with the ~$200 orthotics designed for me by the podiatrist who operated on my neuromas. I have 4 pairs. I also have about 4 pairs of green Superfeet orthotics, not custom, of course, bought online. I use those too still some, have a pair in my quad skates. They aren't cheap but way cheaper than my custom orthotics. Haven't noticed plantar fasciitis for I guess a few years. I just started getting back in my gym, stopped going when the pandemic hit, as did everybody else. They filed for bankruptcy, came out of it, sent me a letter saying I could come back any time I like, keep paying my monthly or put a hold on that until I was "ready." I kept paying, afraid that my lifetime $8.95/month would terminate if I did otherwise, WTH. I did my ~5th workout there since returning today. One of my scores or exercises and stretches in my routine is calf stretches, which should prevent plantar fasciitis (I hope).
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
While the Aiscs I bought are indeed a proof that following "the rules" of ergonomics does translate, some aspects leave me in a "still seek" mode; the materials on the upper portion is rather lacking in support. Thus, I went to Kohl's again to refresh myself, and I find the Nike's Air Monarch IV's to pass the sole test and have a superior heel and support at least "in the beginning".

However, my perusal of the internet made it obvious fashion indeed dominates the shoe world over practicality: they are called dad shoes or Air Boomers, etc. Not that I give a flying crap since I'm old in mind already and the lack of fashionability means lower prices.

I just need to make a Slickdeals Alert to notify when it hits $40. I might contact Amazon to try and get a partial refund on the Gel-Ventures because the right shoe is already going out far faster than the left. But Gel-Venture 8s DO make walking up hills more effortless than the old shot shoes I had.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,455
10,787
136
While the Aiscs I bought are indeed a proof that following "the rules" of ergonomics does translate, some aspects leave me in a "still seek" mode; the materials on the upper portion is rather lacking in support. Thus, I went to Kohl's again to refresh myself, and I find the Nike's Air Monarch IV's to pass the sole test and have a superior heel and support at least "in the beginning".

However, my perusal of the internet made it obvious fashion indeed dominates the shoe world over practicality: they are called dad shoes or Air Boomers, etc. Not that I give a flying crap since I'm old in mind already and the lack of fashionability means lower prices.

I just need to make a Slickdeals Alert to notify when it hits $40. I might contact Amazon to try and get a partial refund on the Gel-Ventures because the right shoe is already going out far faster than the left. But Gel-Venture 8s DO make walking up hills more effortless than the old shot shoes I had.

I wore Asics Gel shoes...30 years ago. They fit better than Nike shoes...and, for my Flintstone feet, were far more comfortable. Sadly, towards the mid to late 90's, they changed. No longer as comfortable, support got worse, and the gel insoles/soles didn't hold up. I switched to New Balance since (if I hit the right stores) I could get them in 3E or even 4E. "Wide" was all I could get in the Asics.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
I wore Asics Gel shoes...30 years ago. They fit better than Nike shoes...and, for my Flintstone feet, were far more comfortable. Sadly, towards the mid to late 90's, they changed. No longer as comfortable, support got worse, and the gel insoles/soles didn't hold up. I switched to New Balance since (if I hit the right stores) I could get them in 3E or even 4E. "Wide" was all I could get in the Asics.
Asics is inconsistent...at Dick's Sporting goods there were two women's Gel Kayanos. The smaller passed the "ergonomic standard" but the larger sized one failed for me(bending in the arch area). And as I mentioned, my pair has the right "failing" before the left.

Shoes are an example of "necessary obsolescence" much like cars, computers, etc. Most on the market are trash for health but "fashionable" while the good ones are made only for "seekers" who want that over anything else.
----------------------
Amazon refunded me half the price after I told them my dissatisfaction with the more rapid wear on the right shoe. So, for $20, they are a good upgrade over what I had before.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,238
7,968
136
On the same day I hit a Skechers Warehouse, Dicks and Kohls and couldn't find anything remotely suitable for my quad skate uppers. Online I found Skechers that would work and now have a mega-stash. Saved cash too with the deals I found.

Yes, fashion evidently rules the sport shoe world, it's really crazy. I used to buy high top basketball shoes for my skate uppers but I could find nothing remotely suitable even at Dicks. Local sports emporium didn't even carry extra wide sizes. New Balance WAS my go-to but they seem to have stopped making high top BB shoes or golf shoes. :(
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
Yet another advice site on what to look for.


Anyway, I headed to the "direct outlets" of Under Armour today just to check a greater variety of wares. The results were as expected for women's shoes. The Under Armour store was running a Buy One pair, get one free clearance.

I do notice that Nike has a bit of a sly trick in some of their shoe lines. The "rubber" has a very strong "recoil" in certain models that is bound to fail and once that happens, it's stress hell for the feet. But for the "try out window", the customer will be satisfied and won't move to return the purchased inventory.

The Nike "Flex" is intentionally "anti-ergonomic" because they put cuts in that makes the feet bend even more easily; anyone who uses this when running and "toughs through it" is going to be in a world of hurt later on in life.
Videos like these spin it as "comfortable" and highly rated. (when a channel is in it to make money...)


---------------
I found this Air Monarch Review funny
My takeaway is that it is built to a budget, but it's about ergonomics and going out in a cold winter in a Nike.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
Ordered Reebok Lavante Terrains for my mother because it showed a discount on Google. She's more strict about budget

Well, my mother's feet size got bigger, so the 8.5 I thought would be enough wasn't. (She used to be size 8)

The construction of the Lavante is such that at first, it will suffice ergonomically(bends only at toes) but it will fail quickly, as it beings in the center of the arch when heavier pressure is applied. Thus, it makes sense given it is for. A one-and-done causal "terrain" shoe.
 
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Reactions: igor_kavinski
Jul 27, 2020
14,800
9,093
106
Well, my mother's feet size got bigger, so the 8.5 I thought would be enough wasn't. (She used to be size 8)
Fluid retention. Hate to tell you but bad sign, man. Cucumbers and onions should help. However, the liver is compromised and not making the needed albumin to keep the water contained in blood. I would recommend prolonged fasting, just enough protein and garlic sauce with black pepper. Plus, every night or morning, have her take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil and after about 10 minutes, have her drink lemon squeezed in water (half lemon if it's a big one). The EVOO softens the dead liver tissue and the lemon acid will strip away that dead tissue, allowing normal liver cells to proliferate. Right now, there isn't enough available space in her liver for them to divide and grow.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
Fluid retention. Hate to tell you but bad sign, man. Cucumbers and onions should help. However, the liver is compromised and not making the needed albumin to keep the water contained in blood. I would recommend prolonged fasting, just enough protein and garlic sauce with black pepper. Plus, every night or morning, have her take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil and after about 10 minutes, have her drink lemon squeezed in water (half lemon if it's a big one). The EVOO softens the dead liver tissue and the lemon acid will strip away that dead tissue, allowing normal liver cells to proliferate. Right now, there isn't enough available space in her liver for them to divide and grow.
Sometimes you post sense. This isn't one of the times.

She's old and a "hardcore budgeter"(Combine Chinese tendencies with the environment of growing up in lean years set up by the Cultural Revolution). So years of just "dealing with it" on shitty shoes have taken their course.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
20,481
19,055
136
Wear shoes that are made for how feet actually work. Wider so your toes aren't jammed in together unnaturally. Zero drop, aka no raised heel, again, avoiding that rise that is just fighting nature.



 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
So you are saying that her feet are just swollen from bad footwear? I hope you are right.
They aren't that swollen. But they might be "flatter" and one clearly has the big toe bent in manner not straight. She does not have the .5 inch of clearance for her toes at the end of the shoe.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,493
2,611
136
Wear shoes that are made for how feet actually work. Wider so your toes aren't jammed in together unnaturally. Zero drop, aka no raised heel, again, avoiding that rise that is just fighting nature.



Well, to complement such a design, then natural terrain would also be necessary so the foot has the proper "natural" environment.

I find nothing notable about those shoes. When he folds them at the end, there are a lot of "regular shoes" that flex like that. I went to the outlet stores for Nike, Asics, Skechers, and New Balance and they have quite a few lines of "flexy" shoes that I mentally noted to reject. In fact, I could probably order shoes that bend that easy on Temu for a tenth of the price.

The shoe he showed early where it bent too far back from the toes is correctly an unnatural motion, and also common in regular shoes. That's because regular companies simply make a lot of shoes without regards to any podiatry related matters in mind. Companies usually throw in one shoe that actually follows the medical "rules", but they are buried amongst the other less "compliant" shoes. Nike's Air Monarch is ugly according to "popular opinion". I am not a woman, but the System INTRLK, Air Max 90, and Air Max 97 have potential as proper ergonomic shoes at the base, but I don't know if the shoe box is like a corset like the Nike Quest 5s for men.

The "control" are people who buy shoes with no exposure to the medical/scientific guidelines(and pretty non controversial guidelines) and thus do not accept and reject a shoe on those grounds. The ones who move to barefoot from the "control" paradigm still have no exposure. Most conventional running shoes are basically Chinese rubber built to fail at a premium and they are immediate failures biomechanically but people buy them anyway. But then these natural shoes also look like intentionally crappy and soft rubber built to fail fast.

Did a quick bit of reading and Native American peoples had moccasins. The Plains Indians had hard soled ones while the ones in the east had soft soles for the forested terrain, and these designs were made with survival and the resulting pure pragmatism in mind. So, if the barefoot shoes are analogous to the soft-soled moccasin, then they are better suited for forested environments or hillier grasslands.

Given the apparent lack of durability and high cost, I could go for a Red Wing boot that lasts far longer; it's another pragmatic design in which it had to perform for guys on the job.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
20,481
19,055
136
Well, to complement such a design, then natural terrain would also be necessary so the foot has the proper "natural" environment.

I find nothing notable about those shoes. When he folds them at the end, there are a lot of "regular shoes" that flex like that. I went to the outlet stores for Nike, Asics, Skechers, and New Balance and they have quite a few lines of "flexy" shoes that I mentally noted to reject. In fact, I could probably order shoes that bend that easy on Temu for a tenth of the price.

The shoe he showed early where it bent too far back from the toes is correctly an unnatural motion, and also common in regular shoes. That's because regular companies simply make a lot of shoes without regards to any podiatry related matters in mind. Companies usually throw in one shoe that actually follows the medical "rules", but they are buried amongst the other less "compliant" shoes. Nike's Air Monarch is ugly according to "popular opinion". I am not a woman, but the System INTRLK, Air Max 90, and Air Max 97 have potential as proper ergonomic shoes at the base, but I don't know if the shoe box is like a corset like the Nike Quest 5s for men.

The "control" are people who buy shoes with no exposure to the medical/scientific guidelines(and pretty non controversial guidelines) and thus do not accept and reject a shoe on those grounds. The ones who move to barefoot from the "control" paradigm still have no exposure. Most conventional running shoes are basically Chinese rubber built to fail at a premium and they are immediate failures biomechanically but people buy them anyway. But then these natural shoes also look like intentionally crappy and soft rubber built to fail fast.

Did a quick bit of reading and Native American peoples had moccasins. The Plains Indians had hard soled ones while the ones in the east had soft soles for the forested terrain, and these designs were made with survival and the resulting pure pragmatism in mind. So, if the barefoot shoes are analogous to the soft-soled moccasin, then they are better suited for forested environments or hillier grasslands.

Given the apparent lack of durability and high cost, I could go for a Red Wing boot that lasts far longer; it's another pragmatic design in which it had to perform for guys on the job.

So moccasins made by a people in a time where they could not really make other styles of shoes is your rationale?

Holy smokes batman.

Usually we are walking on fairly flat surfaces, whether elevated or not. Such as concrete, pavement or grass or dirt or flooring of some kind. A natural foot walking style is just fine for this. It's also not just about being bendy, which is important, and I doubt any of the shoes you think bend like that, but also zero drop, and not a lot of material between foot and ground. But it all works together.

I am not talking about hiking. Just day to day walking.

Anyways, I trust evolution more than your ramblings.
 
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Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,475
4,994
136
On the same day I hit a Skechers Warehouse, Dicks and Kohls and couldn't find anything remotely suitable for my quad skate uppers. Online I found Skechers that would work and now have a mega-stash. Saved cash too with the deals I found.

Yes, fashion evidently rules the sport shoe world, it's really crazy. I used to buy high top basketball shoes for my skate uppers but I could find nothing remotely suitable even at Dicks. Local sports emporium didn't even carry extra wide sizes. New Balance WAS my go-to but they seem to have stopped making high top BB shoes or golf shoes. :(

I never knew high top golf shoes was a thing. ‘Cause NB still makes plain old golf shoes

 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,238
7,968
136
I never knew high top golf shoes was a thing. ‘Cause NB still makes plain old golf shoes
No, high top basketball shoes, NB used to make some good ones but I couldn't find them when I needed them a few months ago.

They used to make golf shoes but I could not find those either when I needed them about 10 years ago. I ordered Footjoy instead.
Edit: Those don't look like golf shoes, they look like cross-trainers or tennis shoes. :rolleyes: They're gonna look like crap after 3 rounds. :( I always get black shiny leather golf shoes... they shine up nice and I can wear them a few seasons. When I was playing I rotated two pair. I haven't gotten back since all the local courses were shut down during the pandemic.
 
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PeterT

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2008
2
2
66
I have customized New Balance 928s with orthotic insoles (one of which is an ankle support). The shoe with the able support has also had some extra customization done to it (additional width I believe).

I wear these shoes from the moment I'm out of bed in the morning to bed time at night.

The shoes and insoles were modified by a local forum that specializes in custom made foot orthotics, braces, and orthopaedic footwear.

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