Equality for all?

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BigToque

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,700
0
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Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
So, we give them everything, and make them work for nothing? That's a great way to make the situation even worse.
Where did I say they work for nothing? After getting out of the ghetto, they work at the job they were given and they are paid money. This money is taxed, and thus, society gets its investment back (and a whole lot more).

But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.

Not that this has anything to do with the topic, but don't you agree that most of higher society has a great sense of entitlement? You'd be very naive to think they didn't.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,029
4,655
126
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.
Successfully getting through education is not working for it?

Dropping out of the program and thus forfeitting all welfare gives them a sense of entitlement? Remember, I said if he doesn't do it all, then screw him. That includes ending his rent assistance, food stamps, welfare, etc.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.
Successfully getting through education is not working for it?

Dropping out of the program and thus forfeitting all welfare gives them a sense of entitlement? Remember, I said if he doesn't do it all, then screw him. That includes ending his rent assistance, food stamps, welfare, etc.

If it includes that last part, then I can agree with it. But I think that they should probably limit food stamps, rent assistance, and welfareto a period of time anyways.

**EDIT**
And also, start collecting on the welfare and stuff once they do get back on their feet. That way their is no room for a free handout. Better for them and for society.
The guy in the "Cinderella Man" did it, and that makes him clearly a person with pride and dignity.
 

CollectiveUnconscious

Senior member
Jan 27, 2006
587
0
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.
Successfully getting through education is not working for it?

Dropping out of the program and thus forfeitting all welfare gives them a sense of entitlement? Remember, I said if he doesn't do it all, then screw him. That includes ending his rent assistance, food stamps, welfare, etc.

You said if he turns it down, screw him. Not if he doesn't do it all. And, no, I don't believe receiving an undergraduate degree is work at all nowadays (some degrees are difficult). Look at all the partying frat boys who barely go to class and still graduate with a BA in Leisure Studies, but can't pass a simple Psych 110 class.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.
Successfully getting through education is not working for it?

Dropping out of the program and thus forfeitting all welfare gives them a sense of entitlement? Remember, I said if he doesn't do it all, then screw him. That includes ending his rent assistance, food stamps, welfare, etc.

You said if he turns it down, screw him. Not if he doesn't do it all. And, no, I don't believe receiving an undergraduate degree is work at all nowadays (some degrees are difficult). Look at all the partying frat boys who barely go to class and still graduate with a BA in Leisure Studies, but can't pass a simple Psych 110 class.

QFT, undergrad is a joke unless you take a real major

**EDIT**
Or you really enjoy what you are studying and plan on being the best at it.

Otherwise, it is a finishing school for some women, and it is a party, be on your own school for some other people.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,029
4,655
126
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
You said if he turns it down, screw him. Not if he doesn't do it all. And, no, I don't believe receiving an undergraduate degree is work at all nowadays (some degrees are difficult). Look at all the partying frat boys who barely go to class and still graduate with a BA in Leisure Studies, but can't pass a simple Psych 110 class.
Sorry, you must have missed my first post in this thread. You give a person all the help he needs to get on his feet, and then give him education to stay on his feet. If he still reverts back to his needy ways afterwards, screw him. He had his chance and chose to blow it. I intended that to also apply to my later posts.

In my vision (which will never happen), people in the greatest need are given an ultimatium. If you want to continue to have assistance, you'll have to work your way out of your need. Young Mr. ABC DEF can continue with public assistance only while in school, and only until he gets a job. If he drops out, or if he turns it down, he gets nothing. If he succeeds, graduates, gets a job, and keeps the job for a set period of time then he is qualified for further TEMPORARY public aid down the line as a last resort. For example, I wouldn't get rid of unemployment insurance as he looks for another job. But he'll get little if nothing else.

Clearly, if I had control of all of this, I would not allow these people to get a degree in Leisure Studies. The degree would be related to a list of jobs that are needed and likely to be available after graduation.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
I would like to see the inner city schools on par with suburbs (notice i did not say white or black. it think its more of a social class thing color). My wife was a teacher for a few years one of her friends worked in Chicago district as a teacher. She said one of the biggest problems is that kids who see one that is a success in school is bad. We need ot change the culture from education being bad to education being good.

Part of it is the music and movies. Where they sensationalize the bad and put down the good.

while people in the ghetto maybe at a economical disadvantage that really is not a excuse. There are programs to help those that get the grades. I have no trouble helping someone who works hard and gets good grades.

 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.
Successfully getting through education is not working for it?

Dropping out of the program and thus forfeitting all welfare gives them a sense of entitlement? Remember, I said if he doesn't do it all, then screw him. That includes ending his rent assistance, food stamps, welfare, etc.

I agree.

but i think you need to change the culture before you can be succefull on a wide scale.
 

tfcmasta97

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2004
2,003
0
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Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Meh waste of time, everyone who responded in this thread was white, and one Asian, who prob worships white chicks anyways.

I have to go but you have to realize this discussion has a myopic perspective.

:roll:
I take offense to your personal attack. I, in fact, love the Asian culture, except for a few things. I have never dated a white girl, although I am not against that, neither am I against datign a black girl. As long as they are cool with the Asian culture, I would be totally happy dating out of my race. My parents are totally cool with it too. The only stipulation they have, is that the girl is a strong Christian, which I have no problem with.

am i that asian?

:(

im not asian enough to be known as that asian?

Well, one of the things that has pissed me off is: I go to a mainly white university. Like, shitload of white people everywhere you look. My highschool was the only highschool in my city that taught an enhanced program. I worked decently hard, but compared to the rest of the kids in my class I was doing very very poorly. The students consisted of mainly asians (oriental and indian) with very few black or white people. I did very well in the academic classes but in the enhanced program I couldnt keep up with the other kids. My marks werent great, and I didnt get the first program choice for the university I wanted. When I got here, I met a lot of new people, and many were in the business program the university is known for. And holy ******, some of these white people were rediculously stupid. They did jack ****** and got into the program while I couldnt get in :

After first semester I know 10 people that dropped out, all white, all pretty well off that can live off of mommy and daddy. I know I sure dont have that option.

Well the point of all that was, white people, even when they dont deserve it, have so many great opportunities handed right to them. It's rediculous.

BTW i dont worship white chix, i'm not even that much of a fan. Iunno sometimes I find one I like but then when we go out and I find out how religious they are... too much of a turnoff for me.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
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Originally posted by: tfcmasta97
My marks werent great, and I didnt get the first program choice for the university I wanted. When I got here, I met a lot of new people, and many were in the business program the university is known for. And holy ******, some of these white people were rediculously stupid. They did jack ****** and got into the program while I couldnt get in :

After first semester I know 10 people that dropped out, all white, all pretty well off that can live off of mommy and daddy. I know I sure dont have that option.

Welcome to the first year of every university. People get to college and either can't or won't deal with the requirements to pass and end up dropping out. Nothing new.

 

ValkyrieofHouston

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2005
1,736
0
0
Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Originally posted by: BigToque
I was just listening to the song "Police State" by Dead Prez.

The chorus
The average Black male
Live a third of his life in a jail cell
Cause the world is controlled by the white male
And the people don't never get justice
And the women don't never get respected
And the problems don't never get solved
And the jobs don't never pay enough
So the rent always be late; can you relate?
We livin in a police state

Obviously there are problems on both sides of the fence. What do you do when people of all races feel they are being held down by the white population, and even though on the surface we try to say "Equality for all", it's clear that not everyone thinks so.

How do you combat this problem? Is it just something that we just keep up and hope that the problem goes away?


The problem will never go away, it is basic human nature to opress others. Equality for all is a lie, I think its hilarious how people eat up the propoganda that the US was founded on that concept when it was really founded on equality for rich white males.



Well that is a pretty pessimistic and cynical attitude, with thoughts like that how could we ever achieve equality for all?
 

amicold

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2005
2,656
1
81
Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Uh, I don't think the "white man" is holding anyone down...

Not really. Hundred and fifty years ago sure. Maybe if they could speak some English intead of Ebonics...
 

ValkyrieofHouston

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2005
1,736
0
0
The identifying characteristics of facisim:

By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Free Inquiry Magazine / Spring 2003
Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco
(Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls
these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is titled 'Fascism Anyone?', and appears in Free Inquiry's
Spring 2003 issue on page 20.
The 14 characteristics are:
1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos,
slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing
and in public displays.
2.Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the
people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need".
The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long
incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying
patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious
minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4.Supremacy of the Military -- Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a
disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military
service are glamorized.
5.Rampant Sexism -- The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under
fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia
and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6.Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases,
the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and
executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.
7.Obsession with National Security -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8.Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common
religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common
from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the
government's policies or actions.
9.Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones
who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and
power elite.
10.Labor Power is Suppressed -- Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist
government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.
11.Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher
education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even
arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
12.Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power
to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the
name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13.Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends
and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority
to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and
even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14.Fraudulent Elections -- Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are
manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of
legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist
nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: ValkyrieofHouston
Well that is a pretty pessimistic and cynical attitude, with thoughts like that how could we ever achieve equality for all?
The same way we achieve a communist society. We don't. That's not to say we shouldn't strive to get there, but we should acknoweldge it'll never happen.

Ignoring human nature is a sure way to fail at any task. Some people will always be racist, so we can't achieve equality for all. It simply ain't gonna happen.

It's pretty ignorant to think otherwise.