Equality for all?

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: BlueFlamme

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Notice Italy - Europe

Angles - Europe

Saxons - Europe

Sure are violent people.

Proletariat-- can you name a region or race that doesn't have any history of violence or opression??

I can name a few that have had far less.

White people have literally gone all over the world and raped it. I would be fine if we just slaughtered each other like everyon else. But we didn't stop there, we marched all over globe.

Ignorance is bliss 'eh?

You don't recall anything about the Huns, the Moors, the Babylonians, the Egyptians or any of dozens of examples of one country just devestating another through violence, conquest and enslavement?

Ignorance at its finest. I can only hope, for your own sake Proletariat, that you are young and so very naive because of lack of knowledge and experience.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: K1052
Sorry, us white folks are far too busy opressing only the blacks to listen to the lyrics or even properly oppress the Asians, Mexicans, Indians, Persians, Pakistanis, etc....

Please excuse me while I return to my vast cotton plantation.

Um you do know we oppressed all of the above groups at one time in our history right?

Genious.

I didn't realize we were still doing that though. I thought that happened over 2 centuries ago.

Just think how confusing this all is for those of us with ancestors from Europe. My Italian ancestors oppressed and pillaged my English ancestors who were then oppressed and pillaged by the Angles and the Saxons.

Notice Italy - Europe

Angles - Europe

Saxons - Europe

Sure are violent people.

Proletariat-- can you name a region or race that doesn't have any history of violence or opression??

I can name a few that have had far less.

White people have literally gone all over the world and raped it. I would be fine if we just slaughtered each other like everyon else. But we didn't stop there, we marched all over globe.

You have issues

Meh I don't have issues, I'm proud of the philosphers, leaders and artists that Europe has created, but at the same time I think they could have been more respectful instead of calling everyone they met 'sub-human'. That goes against the fundamentals of Western cu lture created by Plato and Aristotle.

Your missing the point entirely

 

[BlueFlamme]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Meh I don't have issues, I'm proud of the philosphers, leaders and artists that Europe has created, but at the same time I think they could have been more respectful instead of calling everyone they met 'sub-human'. That goes against the fundamentals of Western cu lture created by Plato and Aristotle.

Do you consider enslaving entire nations as treating them as 'sub-human'? If so, then you have ruled out Asia and Africa as being any better than Europe.

If not, you probably do have issues.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
What about Asians who were persecuted during WWII?

What about Jews who pretty much have always been persecuted?

These two groups seem to do better than whites, yet have been persecuted.

African Americans and Hispanics don't do well because their culture is corrupted.

It's not the white man's fault. It's their own fault.

They created a culture that poisons themselves. The music in the OP is a perfect example of that.

Jewish and Asian culture isn't dominated by ignorance and rebelliousness. This is why both groups have become intelligent and successful.

QFT

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: BlueFlamme
Do you consider enslaving entire nations as treating them as 'sub-human'? If so, then you have ruled out Asia and Africa as being any better than Europe.

If not, you probably do have issues.

He's just a kid who admires Che Guevara, he doesn't know any better. He's in that "ultra left wing anti-establishment" phase that is common in many youth. He doesn't know any better.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: BlueFlamme
Do you consider enslaving entire nations as treating them as 'sub-human'? If so, then you have ruled out Asia and Africa as being any better than Europe.

If not, you probably do have issues.

He's just a kid who admires Che Guevara, he doesn't know any better. He's in that "ultra left wing anti-establishment" phase that is common in many youth. He doesn't know any better.

And you're a douchebag with a ridiculous persona.

 

[Proletariat]

Meh waste of time, everyone who responded in this thread was white, and one Asian, who prob worships white chicks anyways.

I have to go but you have to realize this discussion has a myopic perspective.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: BlueFlamme
Do you consider enslaving entire nations as treating them as 'sub-human'? If so, then you have ruled out Asia and Africa as being any better than Europe.

If not, you probably do have issues.

He's just a kid who admires Che Guevara, he doesn't know any better. He's in that "ultra left wing anti-establishment" phase that is common in many youth. He doesn't know any better.

And you're a douchebag with a ridiculous persona.

Personal attack! BAN!


(Thats what I got banned for 2 weeks ago )

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
What about Asians who were persecuted during WWII?

What about Jews who pretty much have always been persecuted?

These two groups seem to do better than whites, yet have been persecuted.

African Americans and Hispanics don't do well because their culture is corrupted.

It's not the white man's fault. It's their own fault.

They created a culture that poisons themselves. The music in the OP is a perfect example of that.

QFT

X2. Wow I actually agree with JLGatsby for once.... *shudders*

Well, I'd never admit to agreeing with Ol' Boy.
I will say that the standard counter-argument by blacks (angry blacks anyway) is that no other group has been pulled away from their homeland and forced to work in a far away land. Which is an interesting point but still BS.
They have a hard time admitting that other races have suffered as much or more than them and more recently too. And they are doing better. The standard assualt is that anyone who is doint well couldnt possibly have been opressed in their history.

Bill Cosby was right. He's made it better than any other black man in America. And he did it back when there weren't free handouts.
Handouts do NOT help. They make it worse.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: BlueFlamme
Do you consider enslaving entire nations as treating them as 'sub-human'? If so, then you have ruled out Asia and Africa as being any better than Europe.

If not, you probably do have issues.

He's just a kid who admires Che Guevara, he doesn't know any better. He's in that "ultra left wing anti-establishment" phase that is common in many youth. He doesn't know any better.

QFT again.

Seriously though Proletariat, just tell me how old you are. Save some face and tell everyone your 12, then we can all cut you some slack.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: BlueFlamme
Do you consider enslaving entire nations as treating them as 'sub-human'? If so, then you have ruled out Asia and Africa as being any better than Europe.

If not, you probably do have issues.

He's just a kid who admires Che Guevara, he doesn't know any better. He's in that "ultra left wing anti-establishment" phase that is common in many youth. He doesn't know any better.

I don't discount everything Che Guevara had to say, but I do discount his tactics. Some of his philosophy was based on a perceived social need. He just became militant in his beliefs. It would have been better if he had stayed as a doctor and changed society and social order by changing the way society viewed the oppressed, like Ghandi (one of my role-models for a few things <he was a weird individual though> ) did.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
What about Asians who were persecuted during WWII?

What about Jews who pretty much have always been persecuted?

These two groups seem to do better than whites, yet have been persecuted.

African Americans and Hispanics don't do well because their culture is corrupted.

It's not the white man's fault. It's their own fault.

They created a culture that poisons themselves. The music in the OP is a perfect example of that.

QFT

X2. Wow I actually agree with JLGatsby for once.... *shudders*

Well, I'd never admit to agreeing with Ol' Boy.
I will say that the standard counter-argument by blacks (angry blacks anyway) is that no other group has been pulled away from their homeland and forced to work in a far away land. Which is an interesting point but still BS.
They have a hard time admitting that other races have suffered as much or more than them and more recently too. And they are doing better. The standard assualt is that anyone who is doint well couldnt possibly have been opressed in their history.

Bill Cosby was right. He's made it better than any other black man in America. And he did it back when there weren't free handouts.
Handouts do NOT help. They make it worse.

QFT. Litigation and handouts only make the problems worse.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
When there are two people equally qualified for a job and it goes to a black person because of a quota (or a women for that matter) thats MORE than fair. Socieity is going out of its way to help the black communities out. Purposelly giving them a leg up over the competition based soley on race. Yet you are gonna stand here and tell me socieity is opressing the black man? You can't possibly think Im dumb enough to believe that can you.

Good logic on paper, fails miserably in practice. The problem is that society is set up, currently, in a way that the black person is NOT equally qualified for the job. (Or to be more technically correct: society has made a situation where most black people are far less qualified than most white people). If we could get to the state where they are equally qualified, then there would be no need for affirmative action and we could ignore race altogther. You'd have to be pretty dumb (using your own word) to believe that society isn't discriminatory (studies are done over and over again that prove discrimination exists in housing, law enforcement, education, and jobs).

Sure, we have pretended to reach out to minorities. We have scholarships that are for minorites only but no university has reached out to the minorities in the ghetto that need the scholarships. Instead, the scholarships go to middle class minorities in the subburbs or to wealthy minorities from foreign countries (ie the ones who don't need the help). And thus, these scholarships are a miserable failure. ANY general attempt to fix the problem will fail in similar ways - the best to do minorities will take advantage of the help and those who need it most don't know about it or are discouraged from getting it.

We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship. He specifically will get money to move to the school (which is the biggest hurdle, if they can't afford to get to the school, a scholarship is useless). He will get money to help his family while in school. He will get training for a job. He will get any other support he needs (guidance councelling, etc). He will be offered a job. If we give him all of that, then he and his future family will all have the opportunity to be freed from the ghetto forever (and the returns in taxes will far outweigh the substantial investment we gave him). If he turns it down, screw him, and let him rot in the ghetto.

With enough of this special treatment, minorities over a generation or two will finally be in a position where they ARE equally qualified. And then we can end all of this silly AA.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Meh waste of time, everyone who responded in this thread was white, and one Asian, who prob worships white chicks anyways.

I have to go but you have to realize this discussion has a myopic perspective.

:roll:
I take offense to your personal attack. I, in fact, love the Asian culture, except for a few things. I have never dated a white girl, although I am not against that, neither am I against datign a black girl. As long as they are cool with the Asian culture, I would be totally happy dating out of my race. My parents are totally cool with it too. The only stipulation they have, is that the girl is a strong Christian, which I have no problem with.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: dullard
We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship. He specifically will get money to move to the school (which is the biggest hurdle, if they can't afford to get to the school, a scholarship is useless). He will get money to help his family while in school. He will get training for a job. He will get any other support he needs (guidance councelling, etc). He will be offered a job. If we give him all of that, then he and his future family will all have the opportunity to be freed from the ghetto forever (and the returns in taxes will far outweigh the substantial investment we gave him). If he turns it down, screw him, and let him rot in the ghetto.

Oh thats bull. If you're going to give handouts, you better give them according to income and not race because there are millions of white and Asian kids who come from poverty and make it to college and still manage without handouts.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
When there are two people equally qualified for a job and it goes to a black person because of a quota (or a women for that matter) thats MORE than fair. Socieity is going out of its way to help the black communities out. Purposelly giving them a leg up over the competition based soley on race. Yet you are gonna stand here and tell me socieity is opressing the black man? You can't possibly think Im dumb enough to believe that can you.

Good logic on paper, fails miserably in practice. The problem is that society is set up, currently, in a way that the black person is NOT equally qualified for the job. (Or to be more technically correct: society has made a situation where most black people are far less qualified than most white people). If we could get to the state where they are equally qualified, then there would be no need for affirmative action and we could ignore race altogther. You'd have to be pretty dumb (using your own word) to believe that society isn't discriminatory (studies are done over and over again that prove discrimination exists in housing, law enforcement, education, and jobs).

Sure, we have pretended to reach out to minorities. We have scholarships that are for minorites only but no university has reached out to the minorities in the ghetto that need the scholarships. Instead, the scholarships go to middle class minorities in the subburbs or to wealthy minorities from foreign countries (ie the ones who don't need the help). And thus, these scholarships are a miserable failure. ANY general attempt to fix the problem will fail in similar ways - the best to do minorities will take advantage of the help and those who need it most don't know about it or are discouraged from getting it.

We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship. He specifically will get money to move to the school (which is the biggest hurdle, if they can't afford to get to the school, a scholarship is useless). He will get money to help his family while in school. He will get training for a job. He will get any other support he needs (guidance councelling, etc). He will be offered a job. If we give him all of that, then he and his future family will all have the opportunity to be freed from the ghetto forever (and the returns in taxes will far outweigh the substantial investment we gave him). If he turns it down, screw him, and let him rot in the ghetto.

With enough of this special treatment, minorities over a generation or two will finally be in a position where they ARE equally qualified. And then we can end all of this silly AA.

Trying to fix the problems in the ghetto at the collegiate level is a non-starter. How are you going to take someone into college when they can barely read or write and have no real understanding on how to learn?

The problems need to be fixed at the grade school, middle school, and high school level and it is going to take more than money to solve it. It would take a major change in the culture of education and the culture of educators.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Oh thats bull. If you're going to give handouts, you better give them according to income and not race because there are millions of white and Asian kids who come from poverty and make it to college and still manage without handouts.

Please reread this part of my post:

Originally posted by: dullard
Instead, the scholarships go to middle class minorities in the subburbs or to wealthy minorities from foreign countries (ie the ones who don't need the help). And thus, these scholarships are a miserable failure.

We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship.

The current scholarships based on race are failures. I specifically stated they should only be based on race IF income is also a factor.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Trying to fix the problems in the ghetto at the collegiate level is a non-starter. How are you going to take someone into college when they can barely read or write and have no real understanding on how to learn?

The problems need to be fixed at the grade school, middle school, and high school level and it is going to take more than money to solve it. It would take a major change in the culture of education and the culture of educators.

I agree. My sister was a teacher in inner-city elementary schools. We need a whole change in education. I simply pointed out one of the many flaws.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Meh waste of time, everyone who responded in this thread was white, and one Asian, who prob worships white chicks anyways.

I have to go but you have to realize this discussion has a myopic perspective.

And your unwillingness to consider (or even acknowledge) any of the actions of cultures outside Europe and the US in the same light is what exactly?

Hypocrite.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: dullard
We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship. He specifically will get money to move to the school (which is the biggest hurdle, if they can't afford to get to the school, a scholarship is useless). He will get money to help his family while in school. He will get training for a job. He will get any other support he needs (guidance councelling, etc). He will be offered a job. If we give him all of that, then he and his future family will all have the opportunity to be freed from the ghetto forever (and the returns in taxes will far outweigh the substantial investment we gave him). If he turns it down, screw him, and let him rot in the ghetto.

Oh thats bull. If you're going to give handouts, you better give them according to income and not race because there are millions of white and Asian kids who come from poverty and make it to college and still manage without handouts.

He never mentioned race... you're the only one.

I agree with dullard completely. One thing that I would love to see is instead of giving kids the money to get to places of higher education, I would prefer to see these places be free or extremely low cost so that the people who actually want to be there can get there. The people who don't perform well are kicked out. Then when they are finished, be required to stay in the community for a certain amount of time to pay that opportunity back to society.

 

[CollectiveUnconscious]

Originally posted by: dullard
Good logic on paper, fails miserably in practice. The problem is that society is set up, currently, in a way that the black person is NOT equally qualified for the job. (Or to be more technically correct: society has made a situation where most black people are far less qualified than most white people). If we could get to the state where they are equally qualified, then there would be no need for affirmative action and we could ignore race altogther. You'd have to be pretty dumb (using your own word) to believe that society isn't discriminatory (studies are done over and over again that prove discrimination exists in housing, law enforcement, education, and jobs).

Sure, we have pretended to reach out to minorities. We have scholarships that are for minorites only but no university has reached out to the minorities in the ghetto that need the scholarships. Instead, the scholarships go to middle class minorities in the subburbs or to wealthy minorities from foreign countries (ie the ones who don't need the help). And thus, these scholarships are a miserable failure. ANY general attempt to fix the problem will fail in similar ways - the best to do minorities will take advantage of the help and those who need it most don't know about it or are discouraged from getting it.

We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship. He specifically will get money to move to the school (which is the biggest hurdle, if they can't afford to get to the school, a scholarship is useless). He will get money to help his family while in school. He will get training for a job. He will get any other support he needs (guidance councelling, etc). He will be offered a job. If we give him all of that, then he and his future family will all have the opportunity to be freed from the ghetto forever (and the returns in taxes will far outweigh the substantial investment we gave him). If he turns it down, screw him, and let him rot in the ghetto.

With enough of this special treatment, minorities over a generation or two will finally be in a position where they ARE equally qualified. And then we can end all of this silly AA.

So, we give them everything, and make them work for nothing? That's a great way to make the situation even worse. The people who deserve to move out of the ghetto are the ones that make it happen for themselves. And yes, it does happen. I have a collegue who was born and raised in the St. Louis housing projects. He now has his PhD in clinical psychology.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
So, we give them everything, and make them work for nothing? That's a great way to make the situation even worse.

Where did I say they work for nothing? After getting out of the ghetto, they work at the job they were given and they are paid money. This money is taxed, and thus, society gets its investment back (and a whole lot more).

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: dullard
Where did I say they work for nothing? After getting out of the ghetto, they work at the job they were given and they are paid money. This money is taxed, and thus, society gets its investment back (and a whole lot more).

Like you said, sounds good on paper, but how do you solve the fact that they will have no self esteem because their entire life will basically be one giant handout?

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious

Originally posted by: dullard
Good logic on paper, fails miserably in practice. The problem is that society is set up, currently, in a way that the black person is NOT equally qualified for the job. (Or to be more technically correct: society has made a situation where most black people are far less qualified than most white people). If we could get to the state where they are equally qualified, then there would be no need for affirmative action and we could ignore race altogther. You'd have to be pretty dumb (using your own word) to believe that society isn't discriminatory (studies are done over and over again that prove discrimination exists in housing, law enforcement, education, and jobs).

Sure, we have pretended to reach out to minorities. We have scholarships that are for minorites only but no university has reached out to the minorities in the ghetto that need the scholarships. Instead, the scholarships go to middle class minorities in the subburbs or to wealthy minorities from foreign countries (ie the ones who don't need the help). And thus, these scholarships are a miserable failure. ANY general attempt to fix the problem will fail in similar ways - the best to do minorities will take advantage of the help and those who need it most don't know about it or are discouraged from getting it.

We need SPECIFIC help to individuals. We need to tell young ABC DEF at 123 XYZ street in the ghetto that he will get a scholarship. He specifically will get money to move to the school (which is the biggest hurdle, if they can't afford to get to the school, a scholarship is useless). He will get money to help his family while in school. He will get training for a job. He will get any other support he needs (guidance councelling, etc). He will be offered a job. If we give him all of that, then he and his future family will all have the opportunity to be freed from the ghetto forever (and the returns in taxes will far outweigh the substantial investment we gave him). If he turns it down, screw him, and let him rot in the ghetto.

With enough of this special treatment, minorities over a generation or two will finally be in a position where they ARE equally qualified. And then we can end all of this silly AA.

So, we give them everything, and make them work for nothing? That's a great way to make the situation even worse. The people who deserve to move out of the ghetto are the ones that make it happen for themselves. And yes, it does happen. I have a collegue who was born and raised in the St. Louis housing projects. He now has his PhD in clinical psychology.

:thumbsup: to him!!!! People like that deserve recognition for bolstering the perspective of their culture. Of course, the sad thing is that somehow he will probably get labeled as a sellout by the poor.

It is funny how some famous or affluent African Americans are labeled sellouts because they start to move out of the projects when they have money. Isn't this what the projects were meant for anyways? For temporary housing till one gets off ones feet.

 

[CollectiveUnconscious]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: CollectiveUnconscious
So, we give them everything, and make them work for nothing? That's a great way to make the situation even worse.

Where did I say they work for nothing? After getting out of the ghetto, they work at the job they were given and they are paid money. This money is taxed, and thus, society gets its investment back (and a whole lot more).

But you are giving them everything, including the job. They didn't work for it, so most will develop a sense of entitlement.