Enough is enough. (VW bashers in here please.)

[Lifer]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Uh, a VW mechanic would be a far better authority than an individual owner since a mechanic would be able to see trends in many cars instead of just one example which is statistically invalid.

ZV

Actually, no. A mechanic ONLY sees the broken cars. He has no idea how many cars are out there that work just fine, because he ONLY sees the broken ones.

Actually, yes. the mechanic sees the TRENDS as he stated. if he sees a bunch of cars, same make and model, all coming in with similar problems, he will know that there's something fundamentally wrong with the way the car was built, parts, quality etc. i'm sure a VW mechanic knows about the electrical flaws, and can comment that it is a major problem with VW cars.

especially if you have independent mechanics who don't specialize with a certain make/modem, they'll be able to tell you which cars are more problem free and prone.

 

[Triumph]

I don't really care about the opinions of most people in this thread, because MY VW has been flawless. I'm not preaching that everyone should buy a VW, because frankly, I don't care if you do or don't. I only care that MY car works fine, because that is all that effects me. But I still don't like the misconceptions and errors in judgement shown in this thread. As an example, VW's that me and my immediate family have owned:

2000 Passat - 45K miles, not a single problem.
2001 Jetta - 20K miles, no problems.
1997 Jetta - Sister NEVER took care of it, dumped it at 75K miles. I think it did fine for never getting any attention at all.
1997 Audi A6 - Plagued by cooling problems when we first got it. After those were fixed, it's been fine. 50K miles.
1996 Golf - Also not taken care of very well, still running fine at ~80K.
1996 Golf - No problems, sold because of moving overseas.
1992 Passat - Automatic transmission problems, would've been fine if it just had a manual
1986 Golf - Never a problem
1986 Jetta - Died at 200K
1985 Audi 4000s - Died at well over 300,000 miles.

All in all, I'd say that my experience with VAG products (as you can see, much more extensive than most of you 2nd hand accounters) has generally been good, or at the least no worse than any other manufacturer. How about our Dodge Caravan, that needed TWO new transmissions in 60K miles, a common problem with those vans? VW's are really no worse than most brands. I don't claim them to be bullet proof, but the 2nd hand comments are really stupid when you think about it. "My girlfriend's dad's VW sucks." Come on, I mean... when you think about EVERYONE YOU KNOW OR HAVE EVER MET, surely you are going to find someone out of those 100's of people that has had a problem with a VW. Or any brand for that matter. That's like every movie has 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. Therefore all movies have Kevin Bacon in them.

 

[Lifer]

wow, couldn't hold it in any longer... the fanboism finally had to come out, eh Triumph?

nice try concealing it in the previous post though.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Lifer

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Uh, a VW mechanic would be a far better authority than an individual owner since a mechanic would be able to see trends in many cars instead of just one example which is statistically invalid.

ZV

Actually, no. A mechanic ONLY sees the broken cars. He has no idea how many cars are out there that work just fine, because he ONLY sees the broken ones.

Actually, yes. the mechanic sees the TRENDS as he stated. if he sees a bunch of cars, same make and model, all coming in with similar problems, he will know that there's something fundamentally wrong with the way the car was built, parts, quality etc. i'm sure a VW mechanic knows about the electrical flaws, and can comment that it is a major problem with VW cars.

especially if you have independent mechanics who don't specialize with a certain make/modem, they'll be able to tell you which cars are more problem free and prone.

You are confused. Yes, he can tell you what can go wrong with a car - he can say that it is more likely that problem A will occur than problem B. But he CANNOT say what the odds are of YOUR car exhibiting that problem, because he has no idea what the total number of cars out there are.
1. Problem A as a percentage of all problems.
2. Problem A as a percentage of ALL CARS.
Any statistician will tell you that these are two very different things.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't really care about the opinions of most people in this thread, because MY VW has been flawless. I'm not preaching that everyone should buy a VW, because frankly, I don't care if you do or don't. I only care that MY car works fine, because that is all that effects me. But I still don't like the misconceptions and errors in judgement shown in this thread. As an example, VW's that me and my immediate family have owned:

2000 Passat - 45K miles, not a single problem.
2001 Jetta - 20K miles, no problems.
1997 Jetta - Sister NEVER took care of it, dumped it at 75K miles. I think it did fine for never getting any attention at all.
1997 Audi A6 - Plagued by cooling problems when we first got it. After those were fixed, it's been fine. 50K miles.
1996 Golf - Also not taken care of very well, still running fine at ~80K.
1996 Golf - No problems, sold because of moving overseas.
1992 Passat - Automatic transmission problems, would've been fine if it just had a manual
1986 Golf - Never a problem
1986 Jetta - Died at 200K
1985 Audi 4000s - Died at well over 300,000 miles.

All in all, I'd say that my experience with VAG products (as you can see, much more extensive than most of you 2nd hand accounters) has generally been good, or at the least no worse than any other manufacturer. How about our Dodge Caravan, that needed TWO new transmissions in 60K miles, a common problem with those vans? VW's are really no worse than most brands. I don't claim them to be bullet proof, but the 2nd hand comments are really stupid when you think about it. "My girlfriend's dad's VW sucks." Come on, I mean... when you think about EVERYONE YOU KNOW OR HAVE EVER MET, surely you are going to find someone out of those 100's of people that has had a problem with a VW. Or any brand for that matter. That's like every movie has 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. Therefore all movies have Kevin Bacon in them.

Face it. When it comes to reliability and overall quality/TCO, VW is not nearly in the same league as a Honda or Toyota. I don't know why people are trying so hard to take up for them, all the evidence points to them being finicky, just take a look at the JD Power rankings.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Lifer
wow, couldn't hold it in any longer... the fanboism finally had to come out, eh Triumph?

nice try concealing it in the previous post though.

Are you trying to personally insult me? I'm not trying to hide anything. I guess since you replied in the 5 minutes that I spent typing my post, you "caught" my attempt at concealment.

 

[Triumph]

Face it. When it comes to reliability and overall quality/TCO, VW is not nearly in the same league as a Honda or Toyota. I don't know why people are trying so hard to take up for them, all the evidence points to them being finicky, just take a look at the JD Power rankings.

I have faced it. I don't claim them to be. I'm just posting my OWN experience. People come in here and post all this second hand garbage, I have every right to post my own experiences. I think we both know that people complain the loudest only when something goes wrong, so it's nice to have a post once in a while showing that things can go right.

From now on, I'm going to start a thread every day saying, "RANT: My VW has performed flawlessly for the past 24 hours!"

 

[DrPizza]

Triumph, do you actually think a volkswagon mechanic has absolutely no idea how many volkswagons have been sold in an area? Or that he drives with his eyes closed and has no idea roughly what percentage of cars in his area are VW's? You are completely correct about the statistics, but you are forgetting that the VW mechanic *does* have some idea how many volkswagons are in the area.

Also, since you like to rely on statistics.... I'll point you to the J.D. Power post above.... VW's *really do* have more problems than most vehicles..

(edit: but I'm luckier than the average mazda, jeep, ford, and nissan owner, as you are much luckier than the average volkswagon owner. )

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Originally posted by: Triumph
I don't really care about the opinions of most people in this thread, because MY VW has been flawless. I'm not preaching that everyone should buy a VW, because frankly, I don't care if you do or don't. I only care that MY car works fine, because that is all that effects me. But I still don't like the misconceptions and errors in judgement shown in this thread. As an example, VW's that me and my immediate family have owned:

2000 Passat - 45K miles, not a single problem.
2001 Jetta - 20K miles, no problems.
1997 Jetta - Sister NEVER took care of it, dumped it at 75K miles. I think it did fine for never getting any attention at all.
1997 Audi A6 - Plagued by cooling problems when we first got it. After those were fixed, it's been fine. 50K miles.
1996 Golf - Also not taken care of very well, still running fine at ~80K.
1996 Golf - No problems, sold because of moving overseas.
1992 Passat - Automatic transmission problems, would've been fine if it just had a manual
1986 Golf - Never a problem
1986 Jetta - Died at 200K
1985 Audi 4000s - Died at well over 300,000 miles.

All in all, I'd say that my experience with VAG products (as you can see, much more extensive than most of you 2nd hand accounters) has generally been good, or at the least no worse than any other manufacturer. How about our Dodge Caravan, that needed TWO new transmissions in 60K miles, a common problem with those vans? VW's are really no worse than most brands. I don't claim them to be bullet proof, but the 2nd hand comments are really stupid when you think about it. "My girlfriend's dad's VW sucks." Come on, I mean... when you think about EVERYONE YOU KNOW OR HAVE EVER MET, surely you are going to find someone out of those 100's of people that has had a problem with a VW. Or any brand for that matter. That's like every movie has 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. Therefore all movies have Kevin Bacon in them.

In regards to the Kevin Bacon 6 degrees thing, word of mouth is one of the main things everyone bases their opinions on. You hear some of your friends got screwed over by Tigerdirect, you never order from them. Some of your friends say Jensen is the biggest piece of sh!t car audio manufacturer ever, you don't buy it. Some of your friends say their VW is a pos, you don't buy a VW. You can't tell me that the stuff you own wasn't impacted partially by what others have said about it's reliability, quality, etc etc.

Is it necessarily fair to judge or call something crap that you personally haven't had first hand experience with? No not necessarily, but it doesn't hurt to share your friend's experiences.

 

[Lifer]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Triumph, do you actually think a volkswagon mechanic has absolutely no idea how many volkswagons have been sold in an area? Or that he drives with his eyes closed and has no idea roughly what percentage of cars in his area are VW's? You are completely correct about the statistics, but you are forgetting that the VW mechanic *does* have some idea how many volkswagons are in the area.

Also, since you like to rely on statistics.... I'll point you to the J.D. Power post above.... VW's *really do* have more problems than most vehicles..

(edit: but I'm luckier than the average mazda, jeep, ford, and nissan owner, as you are much luckier than the average volkswagon owner. )

no, it's his fanboism that prevents him from seeing and believing that VW's are flawed in unreliable (moreso than other makes).

 

[Triumph]

He may have a general impression, but that is by no means scientific, and I don't trust impressions. It would at most be a VERY innaccurate guess. I trust cold hard data such as CR and to a lesser extent, JD Power, WHICH I realize gives VW less than stellar ratings.

But none of you can berate me for posting my *good* experiences with VAG products.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Lifer

Originally posted by: DrPizza

no, it's his fanboism that prevents him from seeing and believing that VW's are flawed in unreliable (moreso than other makes).

Well thank you for displaying your immaturity and inability to read. I'll now be ignoring all of your comments. Thanks for saving me the time!

 

[guapo337]

Here you go. You'll like this one:

My family's '99 New Beetle's transmission died at 98k miles. The repair, with a new transmission was estimated at $3500.00. All of the 12v outlets inside the car dont work. The dealer didnt even know how to fix them. The back seat's ability to go down suddenly disappeared when the button used to do that mysteriously broke. We have replaced the rear-view mirror adjuster atleast 4 times, everytime because of the same problem. We had all four spark plug wires replaced after engine problems, lagging, and other sh!t plagued the car for a while.

The car is a P.O.S. and I have no doubt that all other VWs are the same way. The people's car? Ha! More like the people's piece of sh!t.

 

[DrPizza]

Then again, if you think about it.. the number of problems per vehicle, rather than per hundred vehicles ranges from an average of 1.6 to 5.1. Given a reasonable distribution, that means there are a LOT of just about any type of car that has no problems, and cars of just about any brand with multiple problems.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: guapo337
Here you go. You'll like this one:

My family's '99 New Beetle's transmission died at 98k miles. The repair, with a new transmission was estimated at $3500.00. All of the 12v outlets inside the car dont work. The dealer didnt even know how to fix them. The back seat's ability to go down suddenly disappeared when the button used to do that mysteriously broke. We have replaced the rear-view mirror adjuster atleast 4 times, everytime because of the same problem. We had all four spark plug wires replaced after engine problems, lagging, and other sh!t plagued the car for a while.

The car is a P.O.S. and I have no doubt that all other VWs are the same way. The people's car? Ha! More like the people's piece of sh!t.

VW's average: 3.91 problems per vehicle..
let's see
transmission + outlets + seat + mirror = 4. That's an average VW for ya!

 

[guapo337]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: guapo337
Here you go. You'll like this one:

My family's '99 New Beetle's transmission died at 98k miles. The repair, with a new transmission was estimated at $3500.00. All of the 12v outlets inside the car dont work. The dealer didnt even know how to fix them. The back seat's ability to go down suddenly disappeared when the button used to do that mysteriously broke. We have replaced the rear-view mirror adjuster atleast 4 times, everytime because of the same problem. We had all four spark plug wires replaced after engine problems, lagging, and other sh!t plagued the car for a while.

The car is a P.O.S. and I have no doubt that all other VWs are the same way. The people's car? Ha! More like the people's piece of sh!t.

VW's average: 3.91 problems per vehicle..
let's see
transmission + outlets + seat + mirror = 4. That's an average VW for ya!

That's in the past few months. We've owned it since 1999 and have had more problems. VW=p.o.s. and I have firsthand experience.

 

[isekii]

I don't understand what the problem is with 2nd hand information.

My close friend owns one, it's an 02 Jetta, and it's already suffering from Electrical problems. My friend tells me it's a pos.
I don't disagree with him cuz I do know that VW's and Audi's have electrical problems.

 

[vi edit]

I pretty much knew that I wasn't going to get Honda/Toyota reliability with my Passat purchase. In 64,000 miles it hasn't been an issue anyway.

What I did get though was a great looking car, a great interior, a silky smooth engine, great interior room, great interior quality components, very good handling, excellent gas milage, and ride that's comfortable for at least 12 hours of continuous driving.

GM, Chrylser and Ford may rank higher, but honestly, I'll take a day or two in the shop for a problem over a car that rattles, squeeks, and has crap interior quality that I have to live with EVERY DAY.

 

[MangoTBG]

Originally posted by: MangoTBG
VWs and their cracker drivers are POSs! Sorry! You lose!

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I pretty much knew that I wasn't going to get Honda/Toyota reliability with my Passat purchase. In 64,000 miles it hasn't been an issue anyway.

What I did get though was a great looking car, a great interior, a silky smooth engine, great interior room, great interior quality components, very good handling, excellent gas milage, and ride that's comfortable for at least 12 hours of continuous driving.

GM, Chrylser and Ford may rank higher, but honestly, I'll take a day or two in the shop for a problem over a car that rattles, squeeks, and has crap interior quality that I have to live with EVERY DAY.

(N8Magic): "Are you just talking out your ass again or do you have first hand experience with that?"

 

[vi edit]

(N8Magic): "Are you just talking out your ass again or do you have first hand experience with that?"

Heh.

- The '01 intrigue that I drive for work on occasion with only 25k miles on it has a drooping glove box that has a gap in it big enough to pass magazines through. It's armwrests also squeek at the slightest movement of your arm

- The '00 GMC Jimmy that I drive frequently for work has unlocateable rattles in both door panels that drive me bonkers

- The center console in my '90 grand am shook uncontrollable at any speed over 55MPH

- The '97 monte carlo that we had for three years also had rattles in the door, as well as fake wood trim that squeeked uncontrollably

- The '95 Mistique that I owned had a dash that rattled miserably and a manual transmission that wouldn't go into second gear in any temp below 30 degrees

- The '00 GMC Jimmy that my parents own has a drooping drivers side door that squeeks and rattles when in motion. They've also had some of the knobs for HVAC controls fall off

Need I continue?

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

(N8Magic): "Are you just talking out your ass again or do you have first hand experience with that?"

Heh.

- The '01 intrigue that I drive for work on occasion with only 25k miles on it has a drooping glove box that has a gap in it big enough to pass magazines through. It's armwrests also squeek at the slightest movement of your arm

- The '00 GMC Jimmy that I drive frequently for work has unlocateable rattles in both door panels that drive me bonkers

- The center console in my '90 grand am shook uncontrollable at any speed over 55MPH

- The '97 monte carlo that we had for three years also had rattles in the door, as well as fake wood trim that squeeked uncontrollably

- The '95 Mistique that I owned had a dash that rattled miserably and a manual transmission that wouldn't go into second gear in any temp below 30 degrees

- The '00 GMC Jimmy that my parents own has a drooping drivers side door that squeeks and rattles when in motion. They've also had some of the knobs for HVAC controls fall off

Need I continue?

Thank you for pointing out the GM, Ford + VW are crap

 

[vi edit]

Thank you for pointing out the GM, Ford + VW are crap

Hey now. The cassette deck in my '94 camry died last year and the passengers side handle on the interior busted too. Window regular died last year also.

 

[MaxDepth]

I schtupped my high school girlfriend on the hood of her VW Bug and it still was a POS.

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: MaxDepth
I schtupped my high school girlfriend on the hood of her VW Bug and it still was a POS.

How the heck did you do that? Didn't you slide off?!?