Engineering samples?

[soccerballtux]

uhhh... no... once they got the sellers paypal info, the go after you.
This is totally up to intel Security...

IF they feel they need to contact the buyer, they will.

Trust me on this.. ive seen a few friends get nice emails from intel security.

hm. Sold to these friends?

 

[veri745]

1. Everything is tagged with a serial# after packaging.

If by "after packing" you actually mean "as soon as the wafer is cut up", then yes.

CPU serial numbers are fused into the chip as soon as the chips with major defects are weeded out.

 

[Magic Carpet]

EDIT 2: If someone stole your car, would you pay to get your car back? Absolutely not!

A potential buyer does not bother with checking EULAs, etc of what he buys on eBay as long as it works. In this case, the Buyer thinks if eBay lists it, then sure it's legal!

Now you try to prove a judge in court, that a buyer knew ES proc are illegal to buy/sell. Pretty sure, the judge himself wouldn't know about this in the first place.

-AGAIN-

If this was a big deal, eBay would flag every listing. They have the ability.

 

[Gillbot]

A potential buyer does not bother with checking EULAs, etc of what he buys on eBay as long as it works. In this case, the Buyer thinks if eBay lists it, then it's sure legal!

Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Ignorance of the law is not an acceptable excuse.

This is not law. If somebody decides to sell his "loaned" ES chip, this is his internal affair with Intel. If this was an act of theft, Intel would report every "stolen/missing" CPU to the police, # tags would be written down, etc. This is exactly what's happening with the stolen cars.

Stop mixing up things.

 

[Gillbot]

This is not law. If somebody decides to sell his "loaned" ES chip, this is his internal affair with Intel. If this was an act of theft, Intel would report every "stolen/missing" CPU to the police, # tags would be written down, etc. This is exactly what's happening with the stolen cars.

Stop mixing up things.

Sure does hold up in court for those who have been prosecuted.

Intel ES Processors are the sole property of Intel
Intel ES Processors are Intel Confidential
Intel ES Processors are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and use
Intel ES Processors are not for sale or re-sale

It's simple theft, Period. If Intel can prove they in fact own said items and it is their intellectual property, no court will overturn a theft or stolen goods sale ruling. The difference being, it isn't always worth Intel's time to go after and prosecute every person that has a $50 "stolen" processor. If automobiles cost the same as these individual cpus this would be moot because people would ignore the theft of their car and get a new one.

Intel does care when there are tray after tray of processors sold worth tens of thousands, which IS comparable to a car. Those people are prosecuted for theft.

For example: http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-...arrested-for-selling-Intel-test-CPUs-on-eBay-

 

[Magic Carpet]

news articles... court report, anyone? No news. Intel refused to comment. Must be a big deal for Intel.

I would rather see buyers charged with "illegal possession" of goods.

Business as usual, move along

 

[Ferzerp]

So your new justification is that theft is ok if you aren't prosecuted? Got it.

 

[Magic Carpet]

So your new justification is that theft is ok if you aren't prosecuted? Got it.

In my justification, this still isn't theft since no act of theft has been committed on my part.

In court, I might be charged with illegal possession of goods at best, however, I very much doubt Intel will be interested in it.

Still, it's worth every penny

 

[taltamir]

If this was a big deal, eBay would flag every listing. They have the ability.

You keep on saying it but its not true. They do not have the staff to monitor every single post. They rely on users to report things and then have staff look at reported listings.

 

[Magic Carpet]

You keep on saying it but its not true. They do not have the staff to monitor every single post.

It's the robot that does monitoring and a member of staff who actually controls it.

They rely on users to report things and then have staff look at reported listings.

In my experience, eBay does seem to have some filtering in place, irregardless of user feedback.

But why cut down eBay profit if they can get away with it?

 

[taltamir]

In my experience, eBay does seem to have some filtering in place, irregardless of user feedback.

Its both, they have multiple systems in place.

But why cut down eBay profit if they can get away with it?

The vast majority of their sales bring in too little money to pay a human with the requisite knowledge to assess that sale. They would lose money on each such transaction...

And if they limited their site to only large transactions they will not only lose most of their profit but it will collapse their entire business model.

 

[andy2000]

Comparing ES chips on ebay to stolen cars is a bit extreme. While there have been cases of employees stealing trays of ES chips, many of them are just left over after they were used for their intended purpose.

A lot of the ES chips floating around out there are ones that were scrapped by Intel partners (like Dell, or Asus). Once they're sent to the E-recycler, some inevitably slip through the cracks. If anyone is to blame, it would be the partners who don't have the chips destroyed, or the recycling companies who don't follow through on the destruction orders. In neither of those cases were the chips stolen by anyone.

 

[Gillbot]

Comparing ES chips on ebay to stolen cars is a bit extreme. While there have been cases of employees stealing trays of ES chips, many of them are just left over after they were used for their intended purpose.

A lot of the ES chips floating around out there are ones that were scrapped by Intel partners (like Dell, or Asus). Once they're sent to the E-recycler, some inevitably slip through the cracks. If anyone is to blame, it would be the partners who don't have the chips destroyed, or the recycling companies who don't follow through on the destruction orders. In neither of those cases were the chips stolen by anyone.

If an employee sells them instead of destroying them like they are supposed to, it is still theft. Where I live, if someone other than your paid trash collector takes your bags of garbage, it is theft of your property.

I think it's funny that because it's theft of Intel's property, people try to justify it because it "can't hurt them, they are too rich" or other stupid excuses. The letter of the law doesn't care about monetary value, theft is theft.

 

[aigomorla]

hm. Sold to these friends?

No... I dont sell any of my ES's.
My sponsor explicitly states i have to either:

1. Destory them <--- remember my wolfdale / yorkfield kill spree days?
2. Return them
3. Use them for personal reasons and not ever be sold or ever exchanged for cash...

Is it that hard to understand ES's?
They always belong to intel... they never belong to you...
If intel asks for the CPU back, you need to tell them what happened to the cpu, or return it.

 

[Gillbot]

No... I dont sell any of my ES's.
My sponsor explicitly states i have to either:

1. Destory them <--- remember my wolfdale / yorkfield kill spree days?
2. Return them
3. Use them for personal reasons and not ever be sold or ever exchanged for cash...

Is it that hard to understand ES's?
They always belong to intel... they never belong to you...
If intel asks for the CPU back, you need to tell them what happened to the cpu, or return it.

I've had to do that, and one my contact was quite surprised I still had it considering it was a nice cherry PIII 933, lol.

 

[Magic Carpet]

If an employee sells them instead of destroying them like they are supposed to, it is still theft. Where I live, if someone other than your paid trash collector takes your bags of garbage, it is theft of your property.

Ah... the mysterious trash bins finally show up, that must be how ES chips debut to public

I think it's funny that because it's theft of Intel's property, people try to justify it because it "can't hurt them, they are too rich" or other stupid excuses. The letter of the law doesn't care about monetary value, theft is theft.

There have been mentioned enough reasons in this thread explaining the pro's and con's of having ES. To each their own.

 

[Gillbot]

There have been mentioned enough reasons in this thread explaining the pro's and con's of having ES. To each their own.

I disagree, there are no Pro's of it. If you are caught, you are in possession of stolen property. Should you have no plausible reason for such and they can trace it to a purposeful transaction to buy it, you knowingly bought stolen property and can be held accountable as such. Simple.

 

[andy2000]

If an employee sells them instead of destroying them like they are supposed to, it is still theft. Where I live, if someone other than your paid trash collector takes your bags of garbage, it is theft of your property.

I think it's funny that because it's theft of Intel's property, people try to justify it because it "can't hurt them, they are too rich" or other stupid excuses. The letter of the law doesn't care about monetary value, theft is theft.

I'm not talking about an employee selling them, of even someone dumpster diving (which isn't illegal everywhere). I'm talking about large companies disposing of their old ES chips, and then some of them ending up in other people's hands (legally).

For example, if Dell needs to dispose of some old ES chips, they are unlikely to personally destroy each individual chip. They'll more than likely just toss them in with the rest of their e-waste since they don't really care what happens to them. Dell's scrap will get picked up by a recycling company, and at that point, they belong to the recycling company who bought the load of scrap (or was paid to haul it away). By the time the chips meet their final fate, they will have passed through many hands (non except Dell having any kind of agreement with Intel/AMD). At any point in the chain some of the chips may be sold to people who might decide they're worth more as CPUs rather than melting down.

At no point was anything stolen. The worst crime committed might be breech of contract when Dell failed to personally destroy each and every chip. If Intel/AMD cared so much, they would require that every single chip be returned to them (accounted for by serial number). They would also keep an eye on places like eBay, and have all questionable listings removed.

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend buying an ES CPU since you never really know what it is, or how it may have been abused.

 

[Phynaz]

For example, if Dell needs to dispose of some old ES chips, they are unlikely to personally destroy each individual chip.

This is were you are wrong. You can bet that Dell keeps very close track of where those chips are. You know why? Because they aren't Dell's property.

 

[Gillbot]

I'm not talking about an employee selling them, of even someone dumpster diving (which isn't illegal everywhere). I'm talking about large companies disposing of their old ES chips, and then some of them ending up in other people's hands (legally).

For example, if Dell needs to dispose of some old ES chips, they are unlikely to personally destroy each individual chip. They'll more than likely just toss them in with the rest of their e-waste since they don't really care what happens to them. Dell's scrap will get picked up by a recycling company, and at that point, they belong to the recycling company who bought the load of scrap (or was paid to haul it away). By the time the chips meet their final fate, they will have passed through many hands (non except Dell having any kind of agreement with Intel/AMD). At any point in the chain some of the chips may be sold to people who might decide they're worth more as CPUs rather than melting down.

At no point was anything stolen. The worst crime committed might be breech of contract when Dell failed to personally destroy each and every chip. If Intel/AMD cared so much, they would require that every single chip be returned to them (accounted for by serial number). They would also keep an eye on places like eBay, and have all questionable listings removed.

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend buying an ES CPU since you never really know what it is, or how it may have been abused.

The point being, there is no legal way to obtain an ES chip aside from having an NDA with intel and they provide it to you.

This is were you are wrong. You can bet that Dell keeps very close track of where those chips are. You know why? Because they aren't Dell's property.

Exactly. If Dell is supposed to dispose of them and they don't, ultimately they are the responsible party but there is still no legal way to obtain stolen property since they belong to intel if they were not properly destroyed.

Is someone steals a checkbook, then walks up to you in the street and says here take this check man, you didn't steal it but is that check valid and legally yours? No. Furthermore, on the IHS it explicitly states "INTEL CONFIDENTIAL" so ignorance is not going to shield you as you know it's not something you should have in the first place.

 

[Idontcare]

I suspect this is what we get when we have a society that starts to view software and music piracy as not tantamount to stealing.

Once you find it socially acceptable to justify taking what you want for whatever reason you find convenient, it doesn't take too many generations after that for the member's of that society to not have a sense of boundaries and propriety when it comes to stealing or owning stolen hardware either.

In the end we all get the society we deserve. Make excuses for the conventient piracy stuff today and the chickens will come home to roost tomorrow.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I disagree, there are no Pro's of it. If you are caught, you are in possession of stolen property. Should you have no plausible reason for such and they can trace it to a purposeful transaction to buy it, you knowingly bought stolen property and can be held accountable as such. Simple.

I'll sum it up for you then, from a potential Buyer's perspective.

The Pro's:

* Can cost next to nothing
* Can have different functionality
* Can be a collector's item

The Con's:

* Might not work as expected (PayPal will refund your monies, when bought on eBay)
* Might have to return to Intel

Now... if somebody is willing to accept the risks associated with the cons, it can be a feasible option. The world isn't black or white. Fact.

 

[bononos]

I'll sum it up for you then, from a potential Buyer's perspective.
....
The Con's:

* Might not work as expected (PayPal will refund your monies, when bought on eBay)
* Might have to return to Intel

Now... if somebody is willing to accept the risks associated with the cons, it can be a feasible option. The world isn't black or white. Fact.

'Return' as in giving up stolen items. You said you read the link about Taiwanese engr's being arrested for taking ~$85k worth of Intel ES chips. Do you see shades of gray in that sort of thing? I'm interested in knowing what you mean by saying the world isn't black or white.

 

[Cstefan]

The point being, there is no legal way to obtain an ES chip aside from having an NDA with intel and they provide it to you.

Exactly. If Dell is supposed to dispose of them and they don't, ultimately they are the responsible party but there is still no legal way to obtain stolen property since they belong to intel if they were not properly destroyed.

That's the pisser. A manufacturer whom I will not throw under the bus lets employees go though crates of ES "garbage" which has been marked as destroyed and take them. I am talking thousands of 4-8GB DDR2/3 modules and server class I series cpu's and enterprise data drives. Some people can clear 10k a month in ES sales this way.