Engineering samples?

[Gillbot]

I'll sum it up for you then, from a potential Buyer's perspective.

The Pro's:

* Can cost next to nothing
* Can have different functionality
* Can be a collector's item

The Con's:

* Might not work as expected (PayPal will refund your monies, when bought on eBay)
* Might have to return to Intel

Now... if somebody is willing to accept the risks associated with the cons, it can be a feasible option. The world isn't black or white. Fact.

The cons can also be, Loss of chip and money, plus possible jail time. Yeah, that's worth a few $ off.

That's the pisser. A manufacturer whom I will not throw under the bus lets employees go though crates of ES "garbage" which has been marked as destroyed and take them. I am talking thousands of 4-8GB DDR2/3 modules and server class I series cpu's and enterprise data drives. Some people can clear 10k a month in ES sales this way.

Then that is on the manufacturer. I get stuff from manufacturers all the time, but when I'm done I destroy them or return them for e-recycling.

 

[Magic Carpet]

The cons can also be, Loss of chip and money, plus possible jail time. Yeah, that's worth a few $ off.

There are many things one can go to jail for. The use of unreasonable force in self-defense, for example, could possess a bigger risk than this.

'Return' as in giving up stolen items.

From a legal point of view, Intel is right. And if I had to give up my ES chip, I would probably do that. However, there is a difference, between the act of stealing and the act of using something without permission.

You said you read the link about Taiwanese engr's being arrested for taking ~$85k worth of Intel ES chips. Do you see shades of gray in that sort of thing? I'm interested in knowing what you mean by saying the world isn't black or white.

Well, this is just a news article without Intel actually confirming it. The devil is in the details which we do not yet know.

 

[bononos]

From a legal point of view, Intel is right. And if I had to give up my ES chip, I would probably do that. However, there is a difference, between the act of stealing and the act of using something without permission.

Well, this is just a news article without Intel actually confirming it. The devil is in the details which we do not yet know.

I don't confirmation from Intel about the Taiwanese OEM arrests anymore than I need furthur confirmation and details after a local PD issues arrest dockets for burglary to tell me that burglary is wrong.

I've given you the benefit of doubt thinking that you meant odds and ends accidently discarded as trash (vs destroying/returning) but it looks like you condone buying/selling stolen goods.
In your post#34 you evaded answering whether buying stolen cars are alright - "I don't deal with cars so I can't comment on it", and "nobody really cares where a second-hand part came from". Lets not pretend that the theft of 1 ES (vs 10000 or the small number your business deals in) is still not theft.

I'm far from being a patent nazi and I do think that the software industry especially is suffering because of it but what you are doing is clearly wrong.

 

[taltamir]

That's the pisser. A manufacturer whom I will not throw under the bus lets employees go though crates of ES "garbage" which has been marked as destroyed and take them. I am talking thousands of 4-8GB DDR2/3 modules and server class I series cpu's and enterprise data drives. Some people can clear 10k a month in ES sales this way.

If dell doesn't fire someone for stealing from intel, that is their prerogative. There is no law that says you must fire your employees if they steal from someone else.

But that doesn't magically make the chip unstolen. Stealing scrap is still theft.

 

[Lonbjerg]

If dell doesn't fire someone for stealing from intel, that is their prerogative. There is no law that says you must fire your employees if they steal from someone else.

But that doesn't magically make the chip unstolen. Stealing scrap is still theft.

And you have to remember, Intel ES CPU's are Intel's property...not Dell or any one elses.

It's sad to see people trying to justify theft...kinda like watching pirates defend their downloading...

 

[slightlyhuman]

whew. learning so much!

calm down boys.

 

[taltamir]

It's sad to see people trying to justify theft...kinda like watching pirates defend their downloading...

I would like to point out that the argument thus far was about the legality not the morality of the issue. This isn't a case of people justifying theft but insist it is not actually a crime and that they will not be persecuted.

 

[MaxPayne63]

I would like to point out that the argument thus far was about the legality not the morality of the issue. This isn't a case of people justifying theft but insist it is not actually a crime and that they will not be persecuted.

No, it's always been about the morality. Everything else is just ducking the real issue since there's no possible way for a random individual to legally own an ES.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I suspect this is what we get when we have a society that starts to view software and music piracy as not tantamount to stealing.

Once you find it socially acceptable to justify taking what you want for whatever reason you find convenient, it doesn't take too many generations after that for the member's of that society to not have a sense of boundaries and propriety when it comes to stealing or owning stolen hardware either.

In the end we all get the society we deserve. Make excuses for the conventient piracy stuff today and the chickens will come home to roost tomorrow.

Allowing mega-corporations to stand behind an out-of-balance copyright law, and destroy culture, and sharing between individuals, is also not a society that I want to live in.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Allowing mega-corporations to stand behind an out-of-balance copyright law, and destroy culture, and sharing between individuals, is also not a society that I want to live in.

Like I said...pirates defending their leeching.
Often with lies about "freedom of speech", "cenorship"...or "destruction of culture"

 

[wahdangun]

theft is a theft, there are no different between you steal just $1 or $1000.

its FACT

 

[dawp]

Like I said...pirates defending their leeching.
Often with lies about "freedom of speech", "cenorship"...or "destruction of culture"

Not all free downloads are stealing. There are some that will put their music out there just so they can get circulated, others, like NIN, that put it on the net themselves for one reason or another.

 

[bononos]

Like I said...pirates defending their leeching.
Often with lies about "freedom of speech", "cenorship"...or "destruction of culture"

Maybe copyright laws in Denmark are alot different because in the US, corporations have successively rewritten laws to increase their profits by extending the length of patents among other things. When in fact they themselves profited immensively from outright copying earlier. Read Lawrence Lessig's free book to get an idea.

Highlight videos, corp satire, internet memes may all be illegal if corps get their own way, so yes freedom of speech is at stake.

Culture is under threat when you have examples of biopiracy like the the basmati rice scandal and the forced destruction of farmer Percy's canola seeds.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I'm not interested in petty excuses for your illegal behaviour so this is my reponse:

Three things that cause piracy:
1. Selfish, self-entitled immaturity.
2. No fear of punishment.
3. Cheap broadband.

You can park your excuses at the point of your body that is highest when picking strawberries...or talk to the hand....I really don't care for the dribble :thumbsdown:

 

[taltamir]

Like I said...pirates defending their leeching.
Often with lies about "freedom of speech", "cenorship"...or "destruction of culture"

Censorship is real.
Also, filesharing is a crime but it isn't theft; theft is the taking of property not denying a sale by making an unauthorized duplicate. It is an IP violation that might cause a lost sale. And I suspect it actually increases sales overall, up to a point; MS is actually losing sales... however this is the only reason that they have maintained their monopoly which causes them to benefit from it in the long run.

If you download a game/song/movie that is banned in your country then you are not causing a lost sale, a sale was impossible in the first place.

Then there are cases where you legally bought something and download a copy without the harmful DRM... And various other justifications which are actually sound. It is still a crime in some nations, regardless of what justifications you bring up. Debating that something shouldn't be illegal isn't necessarily because you partake. For example I am for legalization of recreational drugs due to ethical reasons (freedom, ability to openly seek help, losing friends to hard drugs) and yet I have never, ever, smoked a cigarette nor used any recreational drug. So arguing against stupid or bad laws does not mean you actively break them.

That all being said, there are plenty of people who are all "I don't feel like paying for it and so I will just take it". You don't need to deny the existence of censorship and the validity of that argument, that is stupid. What you should point out is when someone says "censorship" when they do not actually have any. "I pirated <game X> in the USA because china censors video games/movies/songs which cast it in a negative light" is a fail argument.

One of the places where it gets dicey is the rare case where someone actually brings up the issue of over-long frivolous and unjustified patents (surprisingly uncommon argument).

 

[bononos]

I'm not interested in petty excuses for your illegal behaviour so this is my reponse:
...... You can park your excuses at the point of your body that is highest when picking strawberries...or talk to the hand....I really don't care for the dribble :thumbsdown:

I was talking about laws being applied unequally boyo. Not simply about downloading games/music. They are related but not only in the fashion you only care about.

 

[bononos]

....... One of the places where it gets dicey is the rare case where someone actually brings up the issue of over-long frivolous and unjustified patents (surprisingly uncommon argument).

In the area of bio-genetics, US DNA patent laws can seem akin to patenting 'a nose' or 'a foot' instead of 'spectacles' or 'shoes'.

 

[taltamir]

In the area of bio-genetics, US DNA patent laws can seem akin to patenting 'a nose' or 'a foot' instead of 'spectacles' or 'shoes'.

Indeed.
And the US supreme court is set to uphold a patent for basically adjusting the dose of a drug based on blood tests of patient.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...-court-poised-to-legalize-medical-patents.ars

 

[Magic Carpet]

Here is a nice [redacted], up for grabs. Should make a decent collector's item for somebody

Don't link to ES sales, please
-ViRGE

 

[Lonbjerg]

Here is a nice [redacted], up for grabs. Should make a decent collector's item for somebody

Link passed on to Intel...it's their property, so technically this guy is selling stolen goods.

 

[Phynaz]

Here is a nice [redacted], up for grabs. Should make a decent collector's item for somebody

What you just did is a banable offense from what I understand.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Just did it to show the people, that ES samples are still easily being bought and sold. And eBay hasn't done jack about it. Wonderful world, isn't it

 

[SammichPG]

Like I said...pirates defending their leeching.
Often with lies about "freedom of speech", "cenorship"...or "destruction of culture"

When the counterfeit product is more convenient than the legit one you have a big problem with your model of business.

Why should I care about american media corporations producing movies and music?
Your country wouldn't think twice before moving war to a regime my country has good trades with (infact you did it and for few months there were billions worth of oil extraction plants and the jobs related at high risk).

Sucks to be you guys, it's like having heavy investments in horse shoes production while cars are becoming popular.

 

[exar333]

When the counterfeit product is more convenient than the legit one you have a big problem with your model of business.

Why should I care about american media corporations producing movies and music?
Your country wouldn't think twice before moving war to a regime my country has good trades with (infact you did it and for few months there were billions worth of oil extraction plants and the jobs related at high risk).

Sucks to be you guys, it's like having heavy investments in horse shoes production while cars are becoming popular.

Let me re-cap. 'it's fine to steal because everyone does it.'. Great post....

 

[SammichPG]

Let me re-cap. 'it's fine to steal because everyone does it.'. Great post....

Either my use of the english language was poor or you totally missed the point, I don't care to explain further my opinion because I'm not looking for a ban and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.