Engadget: AMD to demo "Zacate" next week.

[Martimus]

I believe engagenent has a good Video on the complete wireless Set up for Intel PRODUCTS only . Thats Software and hardware. All intel system will be able to use that have the hardware.

Down the line I believe the Windriver purchase was the Best investment the company has ever made . So Only Intel systems can Use the intel wireless wifi platforms . Once the reciever is hooked to the TV your hooked up for all intel systems you own

Proprietary lock-in is a good reason to avoid that product. Thanks for letting me know now, so that I know not to purchase it in the future.

EDIT: Sorry for the completely off topic post. I thought I was posting in a different thread, not the Zacate thread.

I can say that I am excited about this product, as it will increase the functionality of netbooks. I hope Intel follows suit and makes a good netbook type processor and GPU.

 

[Zstream]

I believe engagenent has a good Video on the complete wireless Set up for Intel PRODUCTS only . Thats Software and hardware. All intel system will be able to use that have the hardware.

Down the line I believe the Windriver purchase was the Best investment the company has ever made . So Only Intel systems can Use the intel wireless wifi platforms . Once the reciever is hooked to the TV your hooked up for all intel systems you own

Nothing to do with the topic :thumbsdown:

Anyways, I hope they have a better battery platform. When we start getting 8-10 hours out of this thing, I will be really impressed.

 

[Idontcare]

Anyways, I hope they have a better battery platform. When we start getting 8-10 hours out of this thing, I will be really impressed.

I would love that too but you just know the dam systems integrators are going to take that low power-consumption and just build a kit with all the fewer battery cells so it is another $5 cheaper for them to build.

Battery life will forever be 1-2hrs, I hate it.

They do the same dam thing with laptops if you buy a ULV and so on. You pay extra for a power-sipper just so they can bundle it with a super weak battery. Makes it lighter and potentially all the smaller footprint, but not longer battery time. Pet peeve of mine with those guys

 

[Vesku]

Yeah, I hope some brands put a 6 cell on one of these. That's definitely one area where this chip fills a niche for AMD, they really don't have much right now in the way of low power notebook CPUs.

 

[nyker96]

Just saw the Zacat vs i5 benchmarks from Anand using Batman,COH,N-Body Simulation, and the numbers are close to 50% superior in games and 300% in direct compute, this is very impressive. AMD certainly knows they got a hit on their hand as they practically let Anand install his own drivers/tests at will. This zacat platform could be huge for the portable market next year!

 

[Nemesis 1]

Nothing to do with the topic :thumbsdown:

Anyways, I hope they have a better battery platform. When we start getting 8-10 hours out of this thing, I will be really impressed.

It wasn't offtopic. I wasn't the one who brought Zapata against I5 into this thread.

So I showed A Atom tablet running Wifi connected to Hy def TV . Running game and video at same time .

As far as Intel platiforms using it only . That is AMDs future also . Intels Just way way ahead of the curve

 

[Zstream]

It wasn't offtopic. I wasn't the one who brought Zapata against I5 into this thread.

So I showed A Atom tablet running Wifi connected to Hy def TV . Running game and video at same time .

As far as Intel platiforms using it only . That is AMDs future also . Intels Just way way ahead of the curve

Yes, it is very off topic.

Regardless wifi is not anywhere close to a competition.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya best check the topic title buddy. This thing went offtopic Wnen zapata was run against I5. If Zapata runs on notebooks its not up against the 1st generation I5 but second generation I5 . Which is lol . NoOne will care about the low power because the performance just isn't their. The PLATIFORM just doesn't match Up to Intel . Now netbooks it will be interesting . But still intelis developing the total platiform well ahead of AMD. The real fight will be with the 9 watt chip . But intel is moving that onto its smart computing platiform in 2011. For you to say Wifi not ready for the smart home is just bunkers. OakTrail and other atom models will have wifi when release time comes.
You really need to look at some of IDFs demos . Very responsive devices. PLATIFORM will rule 2011. These Dame SB,notebooks With wifi are going to do hugh damage to the PC market.Than moving wifi to tablets was hugh risk by intel. There is no doubt that with Atom intel sold the market a pig . But the market made it a market. Which made intel money which allowed Intel to continue its development. You guys can say what ever you want, SB graphics are impresssive, Bad drivers I can only hope , because thats means alot more performance down the line.

Now AMD with there PC chip is intersting to say the least . If AMD makes the GPU power to good they kill discrete. If they don't make it powerful enough Intel is right there to jump on them . Than to top it off Intel announces 22nm for 2h 2011. When is the amd chip do out. So amd has 2 problems they don't know if anand test on SB was 1eu(6) or 2 eu(12) . According to what intel says 1 SB eu(6) is 2x the performance of I5 HD. Ivy bridge will likely double that. So whats intel releasing in 2h 2011. For you guys that don't know imagination techs top gpu is a 12 core unit. Scaling is great. No one has seen the performance of one of these.

 

[Zstream]

Ya best check the topic title buddy. This thing went offtopic Wnen zapata was run against I5. If Zapata runs on notebooks its not up against the 1st generation I5 but second generation I5 . Which is lol . NoOne will care about the low power because the performance just isn't their. The PLATIFORM just doesn't match Up to Intel . Now netbooks it will be interesting . But still intelis developing the total platiform well ahead of AMD. The real fight will be with the 9 watt chip . But intel is moving that onto its smart computing platiform in 2011. For you to say Wifi not ready for the smart home is just bunkers. OakTrail and other atom models will have wifi when release time comes.
You really need to look at some of IDFs demos . Very responsive devices. PLATIFORM will rule 2011. These Dame SB,notebooks With wifi are going to do hugh damage to the PC market.Than moving wifi to tablets was hugh risk by intel. There is no doubt that with Atom intel sold the market a pig . But the market made it a market. Which made intel money which allowed Intel to continue its development. You guys can say what ever you want, SB graphics are impresssive, Bad drivers I can only hope , because thats means alot more performance down the line.

Now AMD with there PC chip is intersting to say the least . If AMD makes the GPU power to good they kill discrete. If they don't make it powerful enough Intel is right there to jump on them . Than to top it off Intel announces 22nm for 2h 2011. When is the amd chip do out. So amd has 2 problems they don't know if anand test on SB was 1eu(6) or 2 eu(12) . According to what intel says 1 SB eu(6) is 2x the performance of I5 HD. Ivy bridge will likely double that. So whats intel releasing in 2h 2011. For you guys that don't know imagination techs top gpu is a 12 core unit. Scaling is great. No one has seen the performance of one of these.

JC! You're one guy that does not know when to stop.

What is AMD supposed to do? They benchmarked an i5 with a Intel GMA500, enough said. No questions, no conspiracy theories... Just stop it.

You want AMD to benchmark against Sandy Bridge? A 35W part that IS NOT EVEN OUT yet? You want them to bench an i5 with a Nvidia GPU? That makes zero to no sense. Nvidia is not the competitor, wifi is not a competitor, streaming video to a 200000 foot projector screen is not a competitor.

This is the low end market, there is no need for a better card when you are getting AMD's performance on the GPU. Once you reach a certain point in graphics it is no longer a need to improve.

 

[Cerb]

Now AMD with there PC chip is intersting to say the least . If AMD makes the GPU power to good they kill discrete..

...which they've been doing for at least two years, now, without any major problems. How many users need more than 785G? I doubt anyone at AMD has any delusions that their uptick in discrete GPUs for Intel notebooks was something that would become a trend--Intel has a history of starving their graphics, and they are finally backing off on that, a bit. The discrete GPUs that have decent performance rely on memory that is insanely faster than the CPU will have. CPU+GPU efficiency gains might be able to tip that in favor of killing discrete graphics when DDR5 finally hits, if typical CPUs get access to enough channels, but I doubt before that.

For you guys that don't know imagination techs top gpu is a 12 core unit. Scaling is great. No one has seen the performance of one of these.

How will the performance while running Ubuntu, PCLOS, Arch, etc.? Will X stay working for days at a time? How will compatibility be for Windows software? Will it finally do Flash and video codecs well? Their current and previous Imagination GPUs should have been a hell of a lot better than what they have offered. It would be nice if they could either make drivers, or maybe pay to have Imagination make drivers, or something of that nature. Or, maybe Imagination could develop open HW, hiding the secret sauce behind a front end. Intel CPUs w/ Intel EUs will be another story, of course. AMD will still keep a graphics performance edge, as Intel will be targeting nVidia more than AMD (they already are, really), wrt to software support, but that only buys AMD a little time.

While the graphics performance may only be OK for SB, the memory improvements speak greatly towards Intel pushing CPU+GPU development software in the near future. Kind of like Larrabee, but without abject failure as the goal .

 

[Nemesis 1]

JC! You're one guy that does not know when to stop.

What is AMD supposed to do? They benchmarked an i5 with a Intel GMA500, enough said. No questions, no conspiracy theories... Just stop it.

You want AMD to benchmark against Sandy Bridge? A 35W part that IS NOT EVEN OUT yet? You want them to bench an i5 with a Nvidia GPU? That makes zero to no sense. Nvidia is not the competitor, wifi is not a competitor, streaming video to a 200000 foot projector screen is not a competitor.

This is the low end market, there is no need for a better card when you are getting AMD's performance on the GPU. Once you reach a certain point in graphics it is no longer a need to improve.

Never said I want I5 with NV discret. I said Atom with ion . That would have been better. Better yet . The way Anand did SB against discret. AMD needs to worry more about oaktrail and less about SB with this chip. 15 HD is a dead chip when zapata makes its way into market. You act as if general computing isn't involved in this chip . This isn't I graphics chip. Intel can call their SoC anything they want also but if its x86 its x86. Zapata is a very narrow nitch.

 

[Nemesis 1]

...which they've been doing for at least two years, now, without any major problems. How many users need more than 785G? I doubt anyone at AMD has any delusions that their uptick in discrete GPUs for Intel notebooks was something that would become a trend--Intel has a history of starving their graphics, and they are finally backing off on that, a bit. The discrete GPUs that have decent performance rely on memory that is insanely faster than the CPU will have. CPU+GPU efficiency gains might be able to tip that in favor of killing discrete graphics when DDR5 finally hits, if typical CPUs get access to enough channels, but I doubt before that.

How will the performance while running Ubuntu, PCLOS, Arch, etc.? Will X stay working for days at a time? How will compatibility be for Windows software? Will it finally do Flash and video codecs well? Their current and previous Imagination GPUs should have been a hell of a lot better than what they have offered. It would be nice if they could either make drivers, or maybe pay to have Imagination make drivers, or something of that nature. Or, maybe Imagination could develop open HW, hiding the secret sauce behind a front end. Intel CPUs w/ Intel EUs will be another story, of course. AMD will still keep a graphics performance edge, as Intel will be targeting nVidia more than AMD (they already are, really), wrt to software support, but that only buys AMD a little time.

While the graphics performance may only be OK for SB, the memory improvements speak greatly towards Intel pushing CPU+GPU development software in the near future. Kind of like Larrabee, but without abject failure as the goal .

Well time will tell The way intel has connected the G1 to the cpu using alot of cache , It looks like intel is the one moving the goal post.

 

[Idontcare]

Zapata is a very narrow nitch.

Zapata covers a rather wide range of areas...spanning the Mexican revolution to birds to restaurants and even includes a handful of not so small land-masses.

Zacate on the other hand does cover a rather narrow niche as it relates to grass and hay...and a particular CPU/GPU product designed by AMD and produced by TSMC.

 

[Martimus]

Zapata covers a rather wide range of areas...spanning the Mexican revolution to birds to restaurants and even includes a handful of not so small land-masses.

Zacate on the other hand does cover a rather narrow niche as it relates to grass and hay...and a particular CPU/GPU product designed by AMD and produced by TSMC.

While Zacate may have a narrow focus, it is a focus that I believe has a large demand. I could easily seeing this become a huge volume seller for AMD, if not a profit driver.

 

[Idontcare]

While Zacate may have a narrow focus, it is a focus that I believe has a large demand. I could easily seeing this become a huge volume seller for AMD, if not a profit driver.

Are you referring specifically to Zacate, a 2C 18TDP SKU, or the entire eOntario platform?

Zacate is but one SKU. The platform targets a market, an individual SKU targets a subset of that market.

I'm pissed you have me backed into a corner here looking like I agree with Nemesis ...dam you for that ...but there is a niche for Zacate, and one for Ontario, in that they are subsets of the wider/broader/larger market addressable by the eOntario platform.

 

[Martimus]

Are you referring specifically to Zacate, a 2C 18TDP SKU, or the entire eOntario platform?

Zacate is but one SKU. The platform targets a market, an individual SKU targets a subset of that market.

I'm pissed you have me backed into a corner here looking like I agree with Nemesis ...dam you for that ...but there is a niche for Zacate, and one for Ontario, in that they are subsets of the wider/broader/larger market addressable by the eOntario platform.

You are right, I am talking about the entire eOntario platform. And I didn't mean to back you into a corner

I do think this is a big market, as a Zacate platform is likely as powerful as my current Desktop setup, yet is cheap and has low power. While I am obviously enthusiastic about the new and upcoming technology, I don't really have issues with my 6 year old computer running current applications. If that kind of power is available on cheap mobile platforms, then I can see a huge market for it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

...which they've been doing for at least two years, now, without any major problems. How many users need more than 785G? I doubt anyone at AMD has any delusions that their uptick in discrete GPUs for Intel notebooks was something that would become a trend--Intel has a history of starving their graphics, and they are finally backing off on that, a bit. The discrete GPUs that have decent performance rely on memory that is insanely faster than the CPU will have. CPU+GPU efficiency gains might be able to tip that in favor of killing discrete graphics when DDR5 finally hits, if typical CPUs get access to enough channels, but I doubt before that.

How will the performance while running Ubuntu, PCLOS, Arch, etc.? Will X stay working for days at a time? How will compatibility be for Windows software? Will it finally do Flash and video codecs well? Their current and previous Imagination GPUs should have been a hell of a lot better than what they have offered. It would be nice if they could either make drivers, or maybe pay to have Imagination make drivers, or something of that nature. Or, maybe Imagination could develop open HW, hiding the secret sauce behind a front end. Intel CPUs w/ Intel EUs will be another story, of course. AMD will still keep a graphics performance edge, as Intel will be targeting nVidia more than AMD (they already are, really), wrt to software support, but that only buys AMD a little time.

While the graphics performance may only be OK for SB, the memory improvements speak greatly towards Intel pushing CPU+GPU development software in the near future. Kind of like Larrabee, but without abject failure as the goal .

From what SB has shown me larrabbee as a discrete graphics is dead in the water . Larrabbee as Knights Ferry is anything but dead. Also intel in the last 2 igp s have moved mountains comparred to where they were. Intel has closed the gap or are closing it.

SB was a big surprise and it just gets better. . Bobcat was a let down. Only because of how thet presented it.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Never said I want I5 with NV discret. I said Atom with ion . That would have been better. Better yet . The way Anand did SB against discret. AMD needs to worry more about oaktrail and less about SB with this chip. 15 HD is a dead chip when zapata makes its way into market. You act as if general computing isn't involved in this chip . This isn't I graphics chip. Intel can call their SoC anything they want also but if its x86 its x86. Zapata is a very narrow nitch.

Cool trollin' story bro.

 

[Cerb]

From what SB has shown me larrabbee as a discrete graphics is dead in the water . Larrabbee as Knights Ferry is anything but dead. Also intel in the last 2 igp s have moved mountains comparred to where they were. Intel has closed the gap or are closing it.

Larrabee as Knights Ferry? Knights Ferry looks like what they've been saying they were going to make for many years, now (they've at least had many-core multithreaded x86 CPUs on their road maps since the P4, if not earlier). Larrabee was pretty much, "we can turn Pentiums into Geforces, with enough cache and hyperthreading! Wee! Magic unicorns!"

SB was a big surprise and it just gets better. . Bobcat was a let down. Only because of how thet presented it.

Apparently, you don't plan to be in the market for one. Gimme a good corporate notebook based on one (or two), and I'll be ready to bite...provided I can come up with the cash (grumble grumble recession grumble grumble).

 

[Idontcare]

Larrabee as Knights Ferry? Knights Ferry looks like what they've been saying they were going to make for many years, now (they've at least had many-core multithreaded x86 CPUs on their road maps since the P4, if not earlier). Larrabee was pretty much, "we can turn Pentiums into Geforces, with enough cache and hyperthreading! Wee! Magic unicorns!"

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/2010/20100531comp.htm

The Intel® MIC architecture is derived from several Intel projects, including "Larrabee" and such Intel Labs research projects as the Single-chip Cloud Computer.

Knights Ferry is basically to Larrabee as Tesla is to Fermi.

Knights Ferry wouldn't exist had Larrabee development not occurred...but they cancelled the part of the project that would have resulted in a discrete-GPU Larrabee based SKU. Larrabee itself lives on, as Knights Ferry and MIC in general.

 

[Cerb]

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/2010/20100531comp.htm


Knights Ferry is basically to Larrabee as Tesla is to Fermi.

Knights Ferry wouldn't exist had Larrabee development not occurred...but they cancelled the part of the project that would have resulted in a discrete-GPU Larrabee based SKU. Larrabee itself lives on, as Knights Ferry and MIC in general.

Why exactly would Knights Ferry not exist, had they not hyped up what was obviously going to be a failure as an AIB? Many-core has been known to be the future since well before Larrabee, Intel has been working at it since well before then, as well.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Knights Ferry will become Knights Corner.@22nm . It will Go against NV in HPC knights Ferry is a development tool in the hands of trusted developers. But Discrete I see coming to a dead end . I am happy with SB graphics performance . Ivy Bridge will just be that much better. Than We have real convergance with Haswell. Even tho You may not have liked the raytracing demo , But the amount of computing power that was required to what was done was exceptional. Knights corner will do just fine in the HPC market.

 

[Idontcare]

Why exactly would Knights Ferry not exist, had they not hyped up what was obviously going to be a failure as an AIB? Many-core has been known to be the future since well before Larrabee, Intel has been working at it since well before then, as well.

I think you missed pretty much the entire point of my post.

If Nvidia cancelled GTX480, GTX470 and GTX465 today it would have no impact on the existence of Fermi-based Tesla today.

Had NV decided to cancel their plans to bring Fermi-based GPU's to market, say they made the no-go decision in Q4 2009, it would have still had no impact on the plan to bring Fermi-based Tesla to market.

Why is that? Same architecture, same chip, different markets.

That is what larrabee versus the Knights ferry situation is all about. They are both simply two-sides of the same coin...one was for discrete GPU graphics (plus your offhand HPC on desktop stuff just like Cuda on GTX260 and so on) and the other was for the HPC market just like Tesla targets.

All Intel cancelled was the plans to release "MIC" as a discrete GPU, same chip is being used in all these Knights Ferry demos though. Naturally the 22nm version that will be brought to HPC markets won't be Larrabee anymore than 22nm Ivy Bridge will be a 32nm Sandy Bridge...there are shrinks and improvements involved.

 

[Eug]

Serious question: What proportion of the small netbook market is interested in 3D gaming? My guess there is an interest, and part of that is limited by the current poor performance, but the interest isn't anywhere near as great as the interest in 3D from the AnandTech forum crowd.

In my case my main interest is general purpose computing and media playback. So, I'm extremely interested in knowing how responsive a 9 W Ontario machine would be while simultaneously playing back a 1080p BR rip off a USB flash drive, or how well it would play HD Flash... and at what price point.

If Ontario can truly smoke Atom + ION at these tasks at a good price point, I'd consider getting an Ontario netbook, and then replacing my Atom + ION nettop with a Zacate nettop. Yes, I can play 1080p video fine on my dual-core Atom 330 + ION, but the CPU usage jumps hugely, and of course the machine becomes much less responsive if you try to do other tasks at the same time. Furthermore, those dual-core setups are rare as hens teeth on netbooks, due mainly to power issues.

In fact, if Zacate truly is a Core 2 Duo level competitor, I could see many people getting such a nettop as a secondary computer if the price is right. Why buy a large and loud monster when you can get something the size of a Mac mini with good performance at $300?

Thus, I was a bit disappointed that the AMD demo didn't include Ontario for netbook fans, and that it didn't demonstrate much media playback and Flash website surfing with Ontario (and Zacate). Media playback and Flash site surfing are things Atom netbook owners have been complaining about forever, and in my experience, moreso than 3D gaming. OTOH, I do agree that 3D gaming with that chip is going to be important for Zacate specifically (and not so much for Ontario)... as long as the price is right and the general purpose speed of the chip is good too.

 

[busydude]

Serious question: What proportion of the small netbook market is interested in 3D gaming? My guess there is an interest, and part of that is limited by the current poor performance, but the interest isn't anywhere near as great as the interest in 3D from the AnandTech forum crowd.

3D gaming might take a while to go mainstream. It is not even widely used in desktop gaming, let alone netbooks.

In my case my main interest is general purpose computing and media playback. So, I'm extremely interested in knowing how responsive a 9 W Ontario machine would be while simultaneously playing back a 1080p BR rip off a USB flash drive, or how well it would play HD Flash... and at what price point.

AMD has clearly stated that 'Zacate' will easily do all of the things stated above.

According to AMD’s John Taylor:

“A notebook or desktop based on the “Zacate” APU, for instance, will give an accelerated Internet experience, play 1080p video, accelerate productivity apps like PowerPoint 2010, play on-line games at HD resolutions.”
​

I cannot comment on 9W Ontario, but since Ontario is just a downclocked Zacate it should handle them fine. Its just my guess and should be taken with a grain of salt.

In fact, if Zacate truly is a Core 2 Duo level competitor, I could see many people getting such a nettop as a secondary computer if the price is right. Why buy a large and loud monster when you can get something the size of a Mac mini with good performance at $300?

Keep in mind, Zacate clock speed is in the range of 1.4GHz-1.6GHz. It is said to be on par with C2D, but we have only BOINC numbers to base this as a fact. Also, Netbooks/Nettops based on Zacate are expected to cost ~$500 . Ontario might be a little bit cheaper.

Thus, I was a bit disappointed that the AMD demo didn't include Ontario for netbook fans, and that it didn't demonstrate much media playback and Flash website surfing with Ontario (and Zacate). Media playback and Flash site surfing are things Atom netbook owners have been complaining about forever, and in my experience, moreso than 3D gaming. OTOH, I do agree that 3D gaming with that chip is going to be important for Zacate specifically (and not so much for Ontario)... as long as the price is right and the general purpose speed of the chip is good too.

Impressions of Ontatio platform(post #33). This is a subjective analysis and I am not sure whether this is based on Zacate or Ontario.

We were one of the first (very first maybe) to go behind the scene at AMD booth at IFA Berlin and to take a sneak peak of Ontario APU platform while working. Unfortunately, we can’t share any pictures, but we can assure you that Ontario test platform is alive and kicking. Aside successfully working with Windows 7 OS, it did manage to accomplish several other things, but more on that later on. As it was stated on test motherboard, the silicon used was A0, with integrated UVD (most probably version 3.0). During the test, very small and basic cooling solution was used, but it still managed to keep APU cooled at around normal body temperature even under heaviest loads.

Ontario is next generation AMD platform aimed to take place in HD netbooks and ultra thin laptops, so we naturally wanted to check how good HD video playback is. Well known and slightly irritating Big Buck Bunny video was used, 1080p resolution, and both playback and fast forwarding were very, very smooth. Next we tried Microsoft‘s N-Body Particle systems test, which showed dramatic performance difference when using GPU instead CPU for calculation, as well as full DirectX 11 compatibility. Among other things we tried, Office 2010 worked very fluidly, and we even witnessed 3Dmark06 in action. As this not being final product, with driver and possibly architecture improvements still to come, we can’t give you any numbers there, but the fact it was working and didn’t take forever to finish things, is good enough for us. There was AVP benchmark shortcut, but we couldn’t run it at the moment, hopefully we will have more luck tomorrow.


There are some manufacturers of netbooks/laptops, which already started testing Ontario for their products, and we wouldn’t be too surprised to see final products very early next year, especially from HP and Acer. Question is what kind of products they will show? With such a low TDP and long battery life (there will be two versions of the same silicon, just with different frequency), and with so good graphic performance, we wouldn’t be so surprised to finally see some Windows 7 slates out there, long time ago after Ballmer promise at this year’s CES.