rudder
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
- 19,441
- 86
- 91
Firing is pretty harsh. But over time an employer will lose more money on the smoker, sloth, and glutton. The will have more healthcare costs and miss more days of work on average.
I say give these folks an economic incentive (other than firing). Charge more for thier health insurance. I go to the gym everyday, eat right, and don't smoke, but yet I pay the same health premiums of these people that get winded walking from their cube to go take a sh!t. And as I watch these people stuff big macs down thier pie holes, I see my insurance go up every year like clock work. I bet if they had to pay $300 more a month for healthcare they would understand what practicing preventative healthcare means.
I say give these folks an economic incentive (other than firing). Charge more for thier health insurance. I go to the gym everyday, eat right, and don't smoke, but yet I pay the same health premiums of these people that get winded walking from their cube to go take a sh!t. And as I watch these people stuff big macs down thier pie holes, I see my insurance go up every year like clock work. I bet if they had to pay $300 more a month for healthcare they would understand what practicing preventative healthcare means.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
You don't understand how insurance works. You HAVE to raise the rates for everyone in the plan for it work. It's the law of large numbers. Right now, about 10% of the people in the plan account for about 90% of the actual claims. Even if you do raise the premiums that a morbidly obese person pays by $500 a month, he'd have to pay that much more for 500 YEARS to cover the cost of a complex heart surgery.
You have to raise the rates of everyone in the plan to cover the higher costs. It's your healthy people that are only paying $50 a month that never use the system that are covering everyone elses costs. If you don't raise their rates, you simply cannot afford to finance the insurance plan.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,347
- 19,512
- 146
The sense of entitlement in this country is amazing. The twisted sense of "rights" is also amazing.
Think about this, for you and your employer to have EQUAL rights, you MUST be able to quit at any time for any reason and your employer must be able to fire you at any time for any reason.
Change that either way, and the rights become UNEQUAL.
If your employer loses the right to fire you at any time for any reason, you must lose the right to quit at any time for any reason.
How would those of you opposed to this policy feel if employers were able to FORCE you to work for them against your will?
Well, if you think that idea is absurd, why would you think it is just to force employers to hire/employ people they don't want to?
Finally, the OP is absurd. Your body IS still yours. You are free to smoke all you want and that employer is free to not associate with you.
This policy is the epitome of freedom. Taking away the employer's right to not associate with smokers is the epitome of oppression.
Think about this, for you and your employer to have EQUAL rights, you MUST be able to quit at any time for any reason and your employer must be able to fire you at any time for any reason.
Change that either way, and the rights become UNEQUAL.
If your employer loses the right to fire you at any time for any reason, you must lose the right to quit at any time for any reason.
How would those of you opposed to this policy feel if employers were able to FORCE you to work for them against your will?
Well, if you think that idea is absurd, why would you think it is just to force employers to hire/employ people they don't want to?
Finally, the OP is absurd. Your body IS still yours. You are free to smoke all you want and that employer is free to not associate with you.
This policy is the epitome of freedom. Taking away the employer's right to not associate with smokers is the epitome of oppression.
Agreed.
Things are somewhat different here in the UK (heck, I'm allowed to smoke at my desk), but taking away someone's God-given right to do whatever the hell they want outside of their job is, IMHO, one step away from living in China and all the associated oppression that they have.
My father uses an analogy which is entirely un-PC, but here it is anyway:
No-one came out of Belson fat.
It's an extreme point of view and I'm not looking for "OMG JEW HAT3R!!!one!!" posts, but it's a good point.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,347
- 19,512
- 146
NO ONE has taken away any rights. Employers do not, and cannot grant, nor deprive people of rights because employment is a MUTUAL agreement. You can leave at any time.
You are not entitled to employment any more than the employer is entitled to employees.
This policy deprives no one of their rights. You STILL have a right to smoke. And the employer still has the right to not associate with smokers. Everyone is free.
A woman who works for my wife was just diagnosed with lung cancer due to her life-long decision to smoke. Sure, she was addicted, and that is a medical condition, but did she ever seek appropriate help to quit? Obviously not, if she never succeeded. My wife's organization pays for all sorts of stop smoking programs if desired, and they have never, repeat NEVER been taken advantage of. Even by one person. 
So now this woman lies in the Cross Cancer Institute, dying as she drowns from the accumulation in her lungs. Perhaps if at some point she was forced to truly take a look at what she was doing to her body, she might be healthier. Then again, perhaps the damage would have already been done.
I wish I worked in an environment where smoking was banned on site. They tried to pass it a couple of years ago, but too many senior managers got their backs up and screamed bloody murder.
<-- two aunts have died of lung cancer
<-- one family friend dying of lung cancer
<-- two friends that are 30 years old already have old-man coughs from smoking, and I'm afraid they'll have to be added to the above lists at some point
So now this woman lies in the Cross Cancer Institute, dying as she drowns from the accumulation in her lungs. Perhaps if at some point she was forced to truly take a look at what she was doing to her body, she might be healthier. Then again, perhaps the damage would have already been done.
I wish I worked in an environment where smoking was banned on site. They tried to pass it a couple of years ago, but too many senior managers got their backs up and screamed bloody murder.
<-- two aunts have died of lung cancer
<-- one family friend dying of lung cancer
<-- two friends that are 30 years old already have old-man coughs from smoking, and I'm afraid they'll have to be added to the above lists at some point
wouldnt a company rather hire a smoker? They would more likely be dead before they reach retirement age and you wouldnt have to worry about them leeching pension for 20 years after they retire.
"Bosses like Weyers will not pay for other people?s bad habits. "
I think that summarizes it all quite well. Sucks for the die-hard smokers, but they have a choice. It's not about what you are doing in your spare time or whether it's affecting work performance, it's that smokers are stastically more likely to have health problems.
To an employer, it's always about the money. Everything is money. It's not that you are a smoker and smoking is gross, it's that the health problems that come with it can cause the money they have to pay for your inusurance to be higher, and the production time they lose when you are sick or have to go to the doctor.
Nobody cares that you're a smoker and you're still healthy, you're still a stastical risk. You're money that they don't have to spend when there is always someone out there willing to do the same job that isn't a smoker.
Sorry about your luck, but you were given a choice. Too bad to chose little white paper-wrapped sticks of shredded tobacco over a means to put food on the table.
I think that summarizes it all quite well. Sucks for the die-hard smokers, but they have a choice. It's not about what you are doing in your spare time or whether it's affecting work performance, it's that smokers are stastically more likely to have health problems.
To an employer, it's always about the money. Everything is money. It's not that you are a smoker and smoking is gross, it's that the health problems that come with it can cause the money they have to pay for your inusurance to be higher, and the production time they lose when you are sick or have to go to the doctor.
Nobody cares that you're a smoker and you're still healthy, you're still a stastical risk. You're money that they don't have to spend when there is always someone out there willing to do the same job that isn't a smoker.
Sorry about your luck, but you were given a choice. Too bad to chose little white paper-wrapped sticks of shredded tobacco over a means to put food on the table.
what if you have friends that smoke?
you catch second hand smoke (can it be detected) and should you lose your job because of that?
you catch second hand smoke (can it be detected) and should you lose your job because of that?
Darkstar757
Diamond Member
- Feb 1, 2003
- 3,190
- 6
- 81
I am so sick and tired of Companies just runing people lives. This is sick and if something is not done soon we will be living a drone like society. DNA testing is become more and more of a scary thought to me.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,347
- 19,512
- 146
How is the company "ruining" anyone's life?
Employment is a MUTUAL agreement. Not an entitlement.
Are you "ruining" your employer's life by having the right to quit at any time and for any reason you like?
If you have that right, shouldn't they?
Finally, from where do you derive the right to force an employer to employ you?
whether or not you agree with this article, i think that most people will agree that: "that farther up the corporate ladder you go, the narrower the vision"
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