Emotional Abuse

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
It amazes me that people want to be treated as adults, yet at the same time want financial support. Guess what, part of being an adult and being independent is being able to provide for yourself. If you are in a situation with supportive parents etc, great for you. If you don't like their rules, its simple -- be an adult and take care of yourself instead of relying on them to pay your way.

Also, the term "emotional abuse" gets tossed around all too lightly. I have no idea if it's applicable in OP's case or not, but much too often "emotional abuse" is used when it should be "parents make whiney brat follow their rules". If you are an adult (ie over 18), you have a simple choice. Put up with their rules, or get out and do whatever you want.

but then I can't save as much money for WoW and video games and my Madza3.

 

[Ramma2]

How about some people are depressed that their parents talk about them and treat them like they're pieces of shit

Then go some place where this can't happen anymore. Money isn't worth this.

If your parents kept saying you're going to fail from the start, and reiterate that you're useless

Why would they do this, then blow thousands of dollars on a worthless college education? Sounds like you're getting only 1 side of the story, and there are always at least 2.

They would do loans if the parents would agree.

Why do they need parent's permission to get loans?

 

[spidey07]

Really the only answer is to move out and start acting like an adult. As long as she's living there she's still a child. I'd put money down that the "emotional abuse" stems from the child thinking they are an adult. As already mentioned everybody has a choice - choose to put up with it or move out and start growing up.

 

[alkemyst]

well if one is still at home after around 18-20ish, they aren't exactly on the top of their game.

 

[CPA]

Another reason why I constantly talk to my kids (all under 15) about getting out on their own when they'ree 18. They can hardly stand living by my simple rules now. It isn't going to be better for them when they're older. 18 and you're out is my motto.

 

[D1gger]

Originally posted by: NaOH

Originally posted by: amicold

Originally posted by: NaOH

Originally posted by: sixone
1. Get out.
2. Get help.

If you were still in college and they were paying for everything you need to live (housing, tuition, food). Would it really be possible to get out on your own and make it? For example, you have to start working to pay for EVERYTHING.

Basically, parents have you in financial shackles.

No dude, it's called stop being a pansy and work.

THEY ARE WORKING....wtf.....

Alright, enough computer chair JUDGING. Some of you might be happy to ditch your parents under any circumstances, and that speaks volumes. How about some people are depressed that their parents talk about them and treat them like they're pieces of shit when they're already trying their best to change that. They expect support from a family establishment but they get none, wtf is wrong about being sad about that? I can easily judge you and say you're a souless POS who thinks nothing of family (ie. just because they suck, then it's easy to leave them). Additionally, she would take loans, but the parents won't have it. If your parents kept saying you're going to fail from the start, and reiterate that you're useless then how are you going to have the mental strength to up and get out instantly into the world. I initially agreed with Sixone saying how we have a choice. Live at home, get undergrad paid off for (loan for grad which they are paying) or get out and pay for everything and lose any family establishment (all the while taking on stress from working to pay bills AND studying to get into graduate school). That is true, and they want to stay at home and just suck it up, but the parents are making living there incredibly depressing and stressful. As in can't eat, sleep, etc. Did anyone say they wanted a free ride but didn't like parents bitching? NO. They would do loans if the parents would agree. All I said was, stuck at home (probably wouldn't be sucessful getting into grad if had to all of a sudden work to pay for everything, not that they're trying to find an easy way out, getting into medical ISN'T EASY already), emotional abuse, what do do if talking to parents don't work? As in, any other mediums to relieve frustration (ie as irishscott said, counselor or something). Ways to MAYBE talk to parents (highly doubtful)..... That is all. None of this further degrading and belittling of someone who really needs support to keep going.

I hope to God you never have any friends or family that become depressed for one reason or another.
You guys are pathetic coming onto these boards just to pounce on someone you don't have the slightest clue about.

I am so tired of this "I am a victim" attitude in our society. It appears that we all want everything handed to us without working for it, and every failure or mistake is someone else's fault. WE HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OURSELVES.

I have first hand experience dealing with someone in the same situation. My gf when I was in University was living at home under an emotionally abuse father's rules as she accepted his money. After the first year of university she was depressed and borderline suicidal. We talked and talked and talked about her situation, and she finally saw the light and agreed that the only way to deal with it was to show him the consequences of his actions. She quit school, moved out and got a job. She worked for a year to get some savings, and had very little contact with him, but did make clear that the reason for her moving out was his attitude toward her. At the end of the year, she re-enrolled in school, paid her own way and worked her ass off.

By the end of that year of university, her Dad was sending her money to help, without the emotional blackmail.

The result of her standing on her own two feet got her out of that situation and made her a much stronger person. She still has a very strained relationship with her father, but there is a lot more mutual respect in the relationship than if she had continued to accept his abuse.

The key is that she did something about it.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: Ramma2

How about some people are depressed that their parents talk about them and treat them like they're pieces of shit

Then go some place where this can't happen anymore. Money isn't worth this.

If your parents kept saying you're going to fail from the start, and reiterate that you're useless

Why would they do this, then blow thousands of dollars on a worthless college education? Sounds like you're getting only 1 side of the story, and there are always at least 2.

They would do loans if the parents would agree.

Why do they need parent's permission to get loans?

1. One, they care what their parents think, hence why they're sad. Some people do, some people could care less. People are different. If it hurts them if they have to leave their parents and to be insulted you're going to tell them they shouldn't be? ie. Leave parents and lose ALL sense of family, or stay and get berated..It's not that easy for everyone to just leave.

2. They do it because they want their daughter to do good, but at the same time, they keep telling them they're going to fail. Hypocritical nature. I don't understand it either, that's why it's retarded. Hence, why it hurts the person to no end when they're already doing everything they can to make it easier for the parent.

3. Parents are ultimately controlling and any decision suggested or made by the person gets instantly shot down. Permission? She keeps telling them to get a loan, they refuse, even if she wanted to stay and take on the burden herself with the loan, they wouldn't have it. Why do they need permission? They ultimately don't want to cut ties, they just want support and approval. They wanna take on a loan? The answer is no. Parents WANT to pay for everything to make it easier on the person, but they constantly bicker about how the person is lazy because they're not paying for


They are going to college so they technically don't live at home, but phone calls and having to go home for the summer, breaks, etc don't bode so well.

Seriously, this topic has gotten way off course...I think the only person that actually gave realistic, helpful advice was irishscott and sixone..

reply to alkemyst...a majority of people who are 18-20 and going away to school usually still have a permanent address at home.....so they technically reside at home.

reply to D1gger, yeah your GF did a very brave thing and I wish the person i was talking to would or could do something like that. But even i know, she can't simply quit school, or work a whole lot while still taking the classes she's taking. if she doesn't get into med school, she'll be in further crap with the parents... Not only did she leave them and say fuck off, but the chances of her taking time off or working plus taking heavy loads are a whole lot worse. Hell, it's already hard while not working and I've seen these students first hand(we have a special program that has a high rate of acceptance into grad, but at a cost of tuition and workload). The fear of failure (something already embedded in them from the parents) alone would make them think heavily about up and leaving.

To reiterate, I agree that it'd be good to be independent and just to get out there on your own. But given the circumstances, type of family, values etc, it's not easy and they ARE stuck under them until they can get some footing to actually get out, and THAT'S WHY I STARTED THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE. To get some advice on what she can do, who she can talk to, how she can get her parents to talk to someone. You know, some HELPFUL advice. You tell me to tell them to leave, okay.....What would help, is advice on how to get them to get the strength to leave because not everyone is endowed with that type of strength.

 

[Jugernot]

Originally posted by: NaOH
If someone is living under their parents and are constantly being abused emotionally (unwarranted), what course of actions can they take to better the situation? "Talking" to the abusers is not a solution.

Come on, use your head. You leave.... or murder/suicide like someone else said.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: NaOH

Originally posted by: Ramma2

How about some people are depressed that their parents talk about them and treat them like they're pieces of shit

Then go some place where this can't happen anymore. Money isn't worth this.

If your parents kept saying you're going to fail from the start, and reiterate that you're useless

Why would they do this, then blow thousands of dollars on a worthless college education? Sounds like you're getting only 1 side of the story, and there are always at least 2.

They would do loans if the parents would agree.

Why do they need parent's permission to get loans?

1. One, they care what their parents think, hence why they're sad. Some people do, some people could care less. People are different. If it hurts them if they have to leave their parents and to be insulted you're going to tell them they shouldn't be? ie. Leave parents and lose ALL sense of family, or stay and get berated..It's not that easy for everyone to just leave.

2. They do it because they want their daughter to do good, but at the same time, they keep telling them they're going to fail. Hypocritical nature. I don't understand it either, that's why it's retarded. Hence, why it hurts the person to no end when they're already doing everything they can to make it easier for the parent.

3. Parents are ultimately controlling and any decision suggested or made by the person gets instantly shot down. Permission? She keeps telling them to get a loan, they refuse, even if she wanted to stay and take on the burden herself with the loan, they wouldn't have it. Why do they need permission? They ultimately don't want to cut ties, they just want support and approval. They wanna take on a loan? The answer is no. Parents WANT to pay for everything to make it easier on the person, but they constantly bicker about how the person is lazy because they're not paying for


They are going to college so they technically don't live at home, but phone calls and having to go home for the summer, breaks, etc don't bode so well.

Seriously, this topic has gotten way off course...I think the only person that actually gave realistic, helpful advice was irishscott and sixone..

reply to alkemyst...a majority of people who are 18-20 and going away to school usually still have a permanent address at home.....so they technically reside at home.

reply to D1gger, yeah your GF did a very brave thing and I wish the person i was talking to would or could do something like that. But even i know, she can't simply quit school, or work a whole lot while still taking the classes she's taking. if she doesn't get into med school, she'll be in further crap with the parents... Not only did she leave them and say fuck off, but the chances of her taking time off or working plus taking heavy loads are a whole lot worse. Hell, it's already hard while not working and I've seen these students first hand(we have a special program that has a high rate of acceptance into grad, but at a cost of tuition and workload). The fear of failure (something already embedded in them from the parents) alone would make them think heavily about up and leaving.

To reiterate, I agree that it'd be good to be independent and just to get out there on your own. But given the circumstances, type of family, values etc, it's not easy and they ARE stuck under them until they can get some footing to actually get out, and THAT'S WHY I STARTED THIS THREAD IN THE FIRST PLACE. To get some advice on what she can do, who she can talk to, how she can get her parents to talk to someone. You know, some HELPFUL advice. You tell me to tell them to leave, okay.....What would help, is advice on how to get them to get the strength to leave because not everyone is endowed with that type of strength.

This is ATOT. I once posted a rant about how I was pissed at people blocking my way on 10' wide sidewalks while riding my bike. I got called a criminal and accused of endangering people after I posted the link to the gov code stating that it was legal and that I've never hit anyone in the two years I've been biking there.

Most of the posters don't read the whole thread (and thus miss vital details), and only a few actually have experience with this sort of thing. Just ignore the ignorant posts. Responding to them will just further derail the thread.

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: CPA
Another reason why I constantly talk to my kids (all under 15) about getting out on their own when they'ree 18. They can hardly stand living by my simple rules now. It isn't going to be better for them when they're older. 18 and you're out is my motto.

What a horribly abusive parent you are, haven't you heard? you're supposed to support them thru grad school, tuition,books, labs,fees, feed em, house em, cloth em,make car and insurance payments.. yet treat them as independent adults.. sort of like roomates that you pay all the bills for.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyle_and_Erik_Menendez

The Menendez brothers solved there problems.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Whoever this thread is about is pathetic. Firstly, the whole idea of being "emotionally abused" is ridiculous. If this person had any balls or strength of character whatsoever, they'd either ignore the terrible, awful "abuse" they're suffering, or simply cut off the abuser. End of story. And I'm not saying that as the typical ATOT wannabe tough-guy strong and silent cowboy type.

"But...but.... they want to go to college for free!!" Screw that. Whoever this is, they would not the first, or the thousandth, or even the millionth person to go to college without their parents paying for everything. "But then they'd have to take out...LOANS!!!! Nooooo!!!" Again, do you realize the absurdity of this attitude? Fucking CUT THEM OFF ALREADY. If they simply can't stand the crushing, "abusive" treatment they are receiving while mommy and daddy pay for every single aspect of their education, then they have the choice to simply remove themselves from the situation. They're not trapped in North Korean prison. "Yeah but it's HARD to do that! Wah wah wah, etc." I don't understand this attitude where it's simply expected you should be handed a higher education and have everything be nice and simple. Life doesn't work that way. Your parents pay for your college, but are mean to you. Boo fucking hoo, stop taking their money and stop talking to them. Problem solved. Seriously, that's it. No filing through iron bars, digging tunnels, or anything like that.

Again, I shake my head and mutter about the typical ATOT response to problems (Move out! Make more money! Magically fix your life in 2 seconds!) as much as anyone here, but again, whoever this thread is referencing is truly pathetic. They want a free ride through college and refuse to put up with some controlling/obnoxious behavior to get it? Oh, the poor thing! The humanity! Tell them to grow a pair of fucking balls, stop acting 12 years old, and take even the slightest amount of personal responsibility for their own life, OP.

Hahaha. Ignorance is bliss isn't it (that goes for most of ATOT too in this case)? Let me fill you in on a few things:

1. People under emotional abuse typically don't have any balls, especially when it's their parents. It's a natural psychological reflex to listen to your parents (at that age) that must be broken, and if you're so emotionally invested in your parents' opinion, it's extremely hard to break.

2. Yes they can remove themselves from the situation, with serious and long-lasting financial debt. It may not be the norm, but getting a full ride and graduating debt free is an extremely nice thing that shouldn't be given up lightly.

3. Yes, they do have to start taking responsibility for their own life. However, they have to build up the balls to take that responsibility. That takes time.

4. "Magically fix your life in 2 seconds." If you're serious about that statement: well, I originally typed a nice witty insult, but I think I'll just reference my "ignorance is bliss" line again.

First of all, I think it's interesting you're taking a veiled dig at ME for not bothering to read the thread. and then you're making fun of me for that "fix your life in 2 seconds" comment. If you bothered to read it, you'd see I find that attitude stupid and pointless, which is why it irritates me when half of ATOT throws it out there as the solution to Everything.

We agree, graduationg debt-free is both very unusual AND very awesome. However, my points was that it is EXTREMELY possible to graduate like the other 99.999% of us do, with a bunch of student loans that you pay off over 20 years. If this person is so depressed and angsty that their friend needed to post to a bunch of strangers to get advice on how to help him, then cutting his "abusive" parents off isn't giving up that perk "lightly", it's doing what needs to be done to be a happy, normal person. See the difference?

I bolded the other statement we seem to agree on. You're being much more diplomatic about it, but we seem to agree: The person the OP is talking about is pathetic, gutless, and callow. The OP is predictably whining like a little bitch that we're daring to point that fact out and saying our responses have no merit, which again is understandable, seeing as how nobody likes hearing negative things about their friend.

Let's keep in mind, as another poster pointed out, that the definition of "emotional abuse" that was quoted in the OP is stuff MOST children deal with. The OP and that article are acting like this emotional abuse is tantamount to beatings or torture, and it's not even in the same LEAGUE. Hell, this person doesn't even live at home the majority of the year!

So, if it's abundantly clear that the person the OP is talking about is pathetic and helpless in the truest senses of the words (he is) and it's also apparent the person the OP is talking about is unwilling or unable to take responsibility for his own life (again, true) then the only important question is: What can be done to help him?

And the answer is, not much. This person's friends can coddle, cajole, plead, discuss, and do whatever else they feel is necessary until they're blue in the face. It probably will eventually get through, but the only person that can truly fix this situation is the guy himself. His parents aren't going to change, so he needs to remove himself from them. End of story. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Until the guy realizes this, he will continue to be miserable and pathetic. Attempting to convince him that's his only option might make him wake up slightly sooner, but don't expect miracles. He'll either eventually grow a pair and do what needs to be done, or he can wait till they die.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Suck it up, buckle down and GRADUATE. Get job, move out. It's just that simple.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: irishScott

This is ATOT. I once posted a rant about how I was pissed at people blocking my way on 10' wide sidewalks while riding my bike. I got called a criminal and accused of endangering people after I posted the link to the gov code stating that it was legal and that I've never hit anyone in the two years I've been biking there.

Most of the posters don't read the whole thread (and thus miss vital details), and only a few actually have experience with this sort of thing. Just ignore the ignorant posts. Responding to them will just further derail the thread.

You still missed the point. You may have had a right to ride there, but they have more of a right to walk there.

Also what many are missing is the excuse most of these adult kids give: "why buy/rent when I can save and invest?"

Meanwhile they hardly have savings or real investments.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Whoever this thread is about is pathetic. Firstly, the whole idea of being "emotionally abused" is ridiculous. If this person had any balls or strength of character whatsoever, they'd either ignore the terrible, awful "abuse" they're suffering, or simply cut off the abuser. End of story. And I'm not saying that as the typical ATOT wannabe tough-guy strong and silent cowboy type.

"But...but.... they want to go to college for free!!" Screw that. Whoever this is, they would not the first, or the thousandth, or even the millionth person to go to college without their parents paying for everything. "But then they'd have to take out...LOANS!!!! Nooooo!!!" Again, do you realize the absurdity of this attitude? Fucking CUT THEM OFF ALREADY. If they simply can't stand the crushing, "abusive" treatment they are receiving while mommy and daddy pay for every single aspect of their education, then they have the choice to simply remove themselves from the situation. They're not trapped in North Korean prison. "Yeah but it's HARD to do that! Wah wah wah, etc." I don't understand this attitude where it's simply expected you should be handed a higher education and have everything be nice and simple. Life doesn't work that way. Your parents pay for your college, but are mean to you. Boo fucking hoo, stop taking their money and stop talking to them. Problem solved. Seriously, that's it. No filing through iron bars, digging tunnels, or anything like that.

Again, I shake my head and mutter about the typical ATOT response to problems (Move out! Make more money! Magically fix your life in 2 seconds!) as much as anyone here, but again, whoever this thread is referencing is truly pathetic. They want a free ride through college and refuse to put up with some controlling/obnoxious behavior to get it? Oh, the poor thing! The humanity! Tell them to grow a pair of fucking balls, stop acting 12 years old, and take even the slightest amount of personal responsibility for their own life, OP.

Hahaha. Ignorance is bliss isn't it (that goes for most of ATOT too in this case)? Let me fill you in on a few things:

1. People under emotional abuse typically don't have any balls, especially when it's their parents. It's a natural psychological reflex to listen to your parents (at that age) that must be broken, and if you're so emotionally invested in your parents' opinion, it's extremely hard to break.

2. Yes they can remove themselves from the situation, with serious and long-lasting financial debt. It may not be the norm, but getting a full ride and graduating debt free is an extremely nice thing that shouldn't be given up lightly.

3. Yes, they do have to start taking responsibility for their own life. However, they have to build up the balls to take that responsibility. That takes time.

4. "Magically fix your life in 2 seconds." If you're serious about that statement: well, I originally typed a nice witty insult, but I think I'll just reference my "ignorance is bliss" line again.

First of all, I think it's interesting you're taking a veiled dig at ME for not bothering to read the thread. and then you're making fun of me for that "fix your life in 2 seconds" comment. If you bothered to read it, you'd see I find that attitude stupid and pointless, which is why it irritates me when half of ATOT throws it out there as the solution to Everything.

We agree, graduationg debt-free is both very unusual AND very awesome. However, my points was that it is EXTREMELY possible to graduate like the other 99.999% of us do, with a bunch of student loans that you pay off over 20 years. If this person is so depressed and angsty that their friend needed to post to a bunch of strangers to get advice on how to help him, then cutting his "abusive" parents off isn't giving up that perk "lightly", it's doing what needs to be done to be a happy, normal person. See the difference?

I bolded the other statement we seem to agree on. You're being much more diplomatic about it, but we seem to agree: The person the OP is talking about is pathetic, gutless, and callow. The OP is predictably whining like a little bitch that we're daring to point that fact out and saying our responses have no merit, which again is understandable, seeing as how nobody likes hearing negative things about their friend.

Let's keep in mind, as another poster pointed out, that the definition of "emotional abuse" that was quoted in the OP is stuff MOST children deal with. The OP and that article are acting like this emotional abuse is tantamount to beatings or torture, and it's not even in the same LEAGUE. Hell, this person doesn't even live at home the majority of the year!

So, if it's abundantly clear that the person the OP is talking about is pathetic and helpless in the truest senses of the words (he is) and it's also apparent the person the OP is talking about is unwilling or unable to take responsibility for his own life (again, true) then the only important question is: What can be done to help him?

And the answer is, not much. This person's friends can coddle, cajole, plead, discuss, and do whatever else they feel is necessary until they're blue in the face. It probably will eventually get through, but the only person that can truly fix this situation is the guy himself. His parents aren't going to change, so he needs to remove himself from them. End of story. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. Until the guy realizes this, he will continue to be miserable and pathetic. Attempting to convince him that's his only option might make him wake up slightly sooner, but don't expect miracles. He'll either eventually grow a pair and do what needs to be done, or he can wait till they die.

1. Yeah, I did misread that 2 second bit. Sorry about that.

2. Possible sure. Whether that's the only way for the OP to be a happy normal person depends on mucho minute details that we don't have, and that even the OP might not have. I'm working from a worse-case-scenario perspective. It may be overkill, but IMO it will help more than treating it like nothing.

3. Diplomacy works wonders. Gets the point across without the offense if you do it right. Also, the OP isn't whining about your criticism of his friend. He's whining about the fact that most of the "advice" in this thread has been a repeat of the same line, which he rebuffed a while ago.

Therefore you are not only slamming a person you don't even know, but you're not even accomplishing anything useful by doing so.

4. I admit that there are minute details that even the OP might not have. Suffice to say emotional abuse is IMO tantamount to beatings or torture if it's chronic enough, and from what I've read this is going on constantly (it can have a large effect even when the person is out of the house). Like I said, I'm working from a worst-case-scenario perspective until I get more details. I'll risk overkill.

5. I generally agree with your last bit. OP can't do much beyond support, but he can have some minor influence on his friend. The sooner his friend gets beyond this the better, and there is more than one option here IMO.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: irishScott

This is ATOT. I once posted a rant about how I was pissed at people blocking my way on 10' wide sidewalks while riding my bike. I got called a criminal and accused of endangering people after I posted the link to the gov code stating that it was legal and that I've never hit anyone in the two years I've been biking there.

Most of the posters don't read the whole thread (and thus miss vital details), and only a few actually have experience with this sort of thing. Just ignore the ignorant posts. Responding to them will just further derail the thread.

You still missed the point. You may have had a right to ride there, but they have more of a right to walk there.

Also what many are missing is the excuse most of these adult kids give: "why buy/rent when I can save and invest?"

Meanwhile they hardly have savings or real investments.

And I never said they didn't. Still, they don't have any more right to block my path (when I'm coming at them head on in broad daylight no less) than I have a right to run in front of speeding cars in a crosswalk when I can avoid it. In any case, I don't want to thread hijack.

That's a hell of a generalization. I don't know many other people who get full rides, and I don't know their investing/saving habits besides, so I can only speak for myself here. Suffice to say I never spent more than 1/5 of my HS grad money, spent next to nothing of my internship money, and about 80% of my total $$ is in a very nice fixed rate CD. Most of the rest is in a high interest savings account, with a couple hundred on checking. Occasionally I'll dip into the checking for a hamburger or a used DVD or something, but beyond that I don't spend much. Once I actually learn enough to know what the hell I'm doing, I plan to go into stocks/mutual funds and such, and I'm 20.

 

[alkemyst]

how many here are making a decent wage (say $30k+) and still living at home? Why?

 

[rivan]

You take the good with the bad. Trying to assert yourself as an adult is difficult enough without the HUGE financial strings that a free ride to grad school gives you - I get that. Still, it's a choice. Really.

There's a reason immigrant parents are hard on their kids; there's a huge amount of opportunity here that (in most cases) wasn't available in the 'old country' and they quite likely immigrated in large part to give their kids a better life. This isn't to say parents can't be abusive - but cut 'em some slack. They've been around the block once or twice.