Elon Musk named 2021 Time person of the year

[MrSquished]

Fareed breaks down quite well how Elon is brilliant and rich in regards to business, but a total hypocrite and wrong on so many of his other statements in regards to government. Like I said, a giant hypocritical douchebag. He got his love from the government, so now fuck everyone else who might do so, including in very important industries that will reduce our carbon footprint, a cause he supposedly cares about a lot (turns out when it makes him rich but not so much anybody else)

But he has his cult fanboys, on all levels, including our resident fanboy who got rich riding the Elon train, so now he is like in a state of worship. But his hypocrisy is so obvious and so blatant, which is why all Elon fanboys are just as bad as him.

 

[MrSquished]

What I've learned from this thread is poor people are more selfish than rich people.

I appreciate your presence to remind me yet again how success in money on any noticeable level means jack shit when it comes to the quality of a person's soul and dignity. Also, how pathetic it is for someone to be in a cult to Elon Musk. What a joke. Whatever my income level, at least I'm not in a cult to a completely hypocritical dbag businessman who also is notorious for shitty workplace environments. But when all you care about is money, you have no soul.

Ponyo said something during the last election that speaks to his values. He voted for Biden but then voted for the Republican Senate candidate. His reasoning was that if government was gridlocked it was best. Basically that means government could not do anything to improve anybody's lives. But he likes his life. As we all know, he likes his money, has shown that is what he primarily places his values on, monetary worth, he derides people that make less money than him as we see in this thread - he made enough to retire and that's all he cares about. He does not care about the government doing anything to make anybody's lives better because his is fine, so to him gridlock is satisfactory.

 

[cytg111]

What I've learned from this thread is poor people are more selfish than rich people.

This is actually true. But the trailing deductions and inevitable conclusion is not what you may think.

If you're competing for food you will kill your neighbor for scraps to feed your self and your family. It is a fact of who we are, evidence: History.

It is only with his belly full and security for his family is a fact that man will rise his head, look to his neighbors and wonder, are they ok too? Eating? Safe? And if not, why not, can I help?

This of course means that if you want peace love and harmony for human kind, you have to level the bottom of society up, out of poverty, into a frame of security and welfare. One of the tools to do this is to tax the rich and redistribute the wealth.

Otherwise some moron will come along, scrape up the bottom of society, create and army and march them to their own demises for personal profit and power.

Again and again and again and...


edit: There is actually a little projection, extrapolation, from this equation that does have worrisome fallouts. So far the bottom half of society has served the machine of society as labor, and thus through that vector held and amount of power(if they can unionize properly) to wield, however, with robotics and automation coming up that power will soon erode. The upper echelons of society will no longer *need* the bottom half and as so long the bottom half dont have nukes or another power factor I am really curious as how this is gonna turn out for them. (well, not really, they'll be at each others throats for scraps obviously).

 

[MrSquished]

This is actually true. But the trailing deductions and inevitable conclusion is not what you may think.

If you're competing for food you will kill your neighbor for scraps to feed your self and your family. It is a fact of who we are, evidence: History.

It is only with his belly full and security for his family is a fact that man will rise his head, look to his neighbors and wonder, are they ok too? Eating? Safe? And if not, why not, can I help?

This of course means that if you want peace love and harmony for human kind, you have to level the bottom of society up, out of poverty, into a frame of security and welfare. One of the tools to do this is to tax the rich and redistribute the wealth.

Otherwise some moron will come along, scrape up the bottom of society, create and army and march them to their own demises for personal profit and power.

Again and again and again and...


edit: There is actually a little projection, extrapolation, from this equation that does have worrisome fallouts. So far the bottom half of society has served the machine of society as labor, and thus through that vector held and amount of power(if they can unionize properly) to wield, however, with robotics and automation coming up that power will soon erode. The upper echelons of society will no longer *need* the bottom half and as so long the bottom half dont have nukes or another power factor I am really curious as how this is gonna turn out for them. (well, not really, they'll be at each others throats for scraps obviously).

He is calling basically anyone in this thread that thinks raising taxes on the uber wealthy is a good idea as poor. I don't think most people in this thread are fighting over scraps of food. It's just him showing his true values are only to the dollar and anyone who disagrees with him can eat cake

 

[cytg111]

He is calling basically anyone in this thread that thinks raising taxes on the uber wealthy is a good idea as poor. I don't think most people in this thread are fighting over scraps of food. It's just him showing his true values are only to the dollar and anyone who disagrees with him can eat cake

I get that, but its still the subject at the core of it isnt it? On behalf of all those with so little.

 

[cytg111]

I tried googling it, I really cant find data on how much he pays except for three years, this 2016 and 2017 I think, one year he didnt pay any cause he paid too much the year prior...

So do we KNOW that Elon is not paying his taxes?

 

[Zorba]

I tried googling it, I really cant find data on how much he pays except for three years, this 2016 and 2017 I think, one year he didnt pay any cause he paid too much the year prior...

So do we KNOW that Elon is not paying his taxes?

He can be paying his taxes, and we thinking those taxes are too low. I don't think anyone is accusing him of committing tax fraud, just that he is taking full advantage of a shitty system.

 

[cytg111]

He can be paying his taxes, and we thinking those taxes are too low. I don't think anyone is accusing him of committing tax fraud, just that he is taking full advantage of a shitty system.

But do we know that he is taking out loans with his stock options as collateral?

 

[Greenman]

But do we know that he is taking out loans with his stock options as collateral?

That would fall under the heading of "none of our business".

 

[cytg111]

That would fall under the heading of "none of our business".

By what metric then is Warren calling him a freeloader? Is it because subsidies and the fact that his biggest customer is the federal government?
I am really trying to get a handle on it that is not left/right stupid.

 

[Greenman]

By what metric then is Warren calling him a freeloader? Is it because subsidies and the fact that his biggest customer is the federal government?
I am really trying to get a handle on it that is not left/right stupid.

Warren called him a freeloader because it was politically expedient.
Congress decided to partially fund electric cars, not Musk. Congress decided to partially fund rooftop solar, not Musk. Congress created the environment where Musk could build a profitable business, then the public decided that a boutique car builder was more valuable than the largest manufactures on the planet. Musk didn't do that either. Now Warren decides that Musk is a bum because he played by the rules she helped put in place.
Oddly enough, I'm no fan of Elon Musk, never have been. But he stepped up, played the game by the established rules, and won. Now one of the clowns that made up the rules has decided to call him out for winning.

 

[ponyo]

But do we know that he is taking out loans with his stock options as collateral?

He used Tesla shares as collateral to take out loans to live and to fund SpaceX, Boring Co, Neuralink, and his other interests and ideas. I think Tesla board of directors added a rule he couldn't pledge more than 20-25% of his Tesla shares as collateral because they feared what would happen to Tesla stock price if Elon ever got a margin call. But I don't know if Elon still has those margin loans or will in the near future since he's sold some Tesla shares and should have enough cash for now.

I love how people in this thread whine about low rate margin loans only being available to the ultra rich when that's not true. I'm not ultra rich, and I have margin loan because I also need money to live on, and I don't draw regular salary just like Elon Musk. My interest rate on my small margin loan is around 1.2%. I will be taking out additional margin loans soon so I can pay estimated quarterly taxes to the IRS and the state of GA Department of Revenue, pay next semester college bill for my daughter, and my everyday living expenses and lifestyle. I could sell some of my stock but why should I sell today and pay additional taxes when I believe the shares will be worth more in the future? But there are consequences to margin loans like margin call if the stock price drops below certain levels. That's the risk I'm willing to take. There's no free lunch.

For Elon, he wants to remain in control of his companies. The more shares he hold, the greater control he has of his companies. Tesla doesn't have dual class stock ownership structure like Google, Facebook, and others have where the insiders can control majority of voting shares while only holding small percentage of actual shares. For Elon to remain firmly in control at Tesla, he must own majority of the common stock.

Elon Musk is paying his taxes and will continue to pay enormous amount of taxes. People who understand Elon know he's not hoarding money because he enjoys making and hoarding money like Warren Buffett. That's not what makes Elon tick. Elon could've retired longtime ago after he sold PayPal. Elon is making and hoarding money because going to Mars and trying to colonize it will cost billions, if not trillions. He's going to pay ungodly amount of taxes trying to make his Mars dream a reality. Money is just a tool that allows him to pursue his dream.

 

[ponyo]

By what metric then is Warren calling him a freeloader? Is it because subsidies and the fact that his biggest customer is the federal government?
I am really trying to get a handle on it that is not left/right stupid.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Warren is the freeloader. She and her office paid for this FaceBook ad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471848898117390337

What's funny is she's calling him freeloading billionaire who avoids taxes when he's going to pay close to $15 billion in taxes and the largest tax payment by a single taxpayer in the history of the US. Elon and his companies have provided value and advanced science and technology and green energy and his investors have made lot of money because of that. But when did that become immortal? Because he played by the rule she helped design and won under that rule?

The only freeloader here is Elizebeth Warren. First, she's running this nasty ad on FaceBook and not on Twitter. Elon does not use FaceBook and is only on Twitter. So she doesn't want to face the wrath of Elon's followers on Twitter. Second, FaceBook is a company Warren has demonized and said had too much power. Yet, she's using FaceBook Ads to attack Elon Musk for political points and to ask for money. Elizebeth Warren is asking for at least $10 donation per person without offering anything in exchange. So, who's the freeloader here? Elon Musk who's creating billions/trillions in value through his companies while trying to achieve his dream of Mars colony and paying the largest amount of tax in history of the US or Elizebeth Warren who's asking everyone just give her at least $10 on FaceBook while providing nothing in return? So she gets $10 and you get nothing. She made her millions from corrupt politics and is again begging for money and calling Elon Musk freeloader when he's creating billions/trillions in value and advancing Green Energy policies she supposedly is in favor of and champion.

Warren called him a freeloader because it was politically expedient.
Congress decided to partially fund electric cars, not Musk. Congress decided to partially fund rooftop solar, not Musk. Congress created the environment where Musk could build a profitable business, then the public decided that a boutique car builder was more valuable than the largest manufactures on the planet. Musk didn't do that either. Now Warren decides that Musk is a bum because he played by the rules she helped put in place.
Oddly enough, I'm no fan of Elon Musk, never have been. But he stepped up, played the game by the established rules, and won. Now one of the clowns that made up the rules has decided to call him out for winning.

Exactly. Bitch just wants to score political points and use Elon's fame and publicity to get back into the national political picture. She wants to run for president in 2024 and needs to have her name on the front page. By attacking Elon Musk, she gets to be in the spotlight and relevant again. Fucking leeches I tell you.

 

[MrSquished]

Imagine thinking the super wealthy using the system to effectively pay a less percentage of taxes than a middle class person as being unfair, and you have these people personally offended if you call that out. And I mean really fucking offended and call you all poor and selfish like the queen of fucking France. What scumbags.

And then to be in a cult to a billionaire on top of it. I mean this guy is clearly an Elon cultist. It's amusing but also a bit frightening.


When this guy has sex with his wife, he's thinking of Elon. He doesn't jerk off to porn, he watches interviews with Elon.

 

[MrSquished]

That would fall under the heading of "none of our business".

Yes, how society handles its primary revenue source for its government, taxes, and how those systems work, is filed under 'none of their business'

Ever since nobodysmind is gone you have proudly taken the mantle of how to make the most ignorant statements around.

i mean holy fuck.

 

[MrSquished]

Warren called him a freeloader because it was politically expedient.
Congress decided to partially fund electric cars, not Musk. Congress decided to partially fund rooftop solar, not Musk. Congress created the environment where Musk could build a profitable business, then the public decided that a boutique car builder was more valuable than the largest manufactures on the planet. Musk didn't do that either. Now Warren decides that Musk is a bum because he played by the rules she helped put in place.
Oddly enough, I'm no fan of Elon Musk, never have been. But he stepped up, played the game by the established rules, and won. Now one of the clowns that made up the rules has decided to call him out for winning.

His company actively took advantage of a government program that gave his company a loan worth hundreds of millions of dollars with favorable terms, so they didn't just passively sit by and take advantage of these things as you imply here. It's hard to find any articles about what Tesla did back then in regards to supporting other government programs like subsidies because every search result is filled with today's news about Elon being against all subsidies.

Either way, the loan program shows that he didn't just sit idly by and take government benefits passively, he sought them out. The fact is he wants all those benefits gone for clean energy items in the new bill, many of which would help out other companies in the industry he is supposedly so passionate about - clean energy to save the planet. I mean it's clear as day he is an 'I got mine so now fuck all you' kind of guy so it's no surprise you are oblivious.

 

[MrSquished]

Some of the shit that comes out of Elon cult members mouths is funny

The only freeloader here is Elizebeth Warren. First, she's running this nasty ad on FaceBook and not on Twitter. Elon does not use FaceBook and is only on Twitter. So she doesn't want to face the wrath of Elon's followers on Twitter.

Yes. Warren is scared of Elon cultboys on Twitter Oh lordy. A tough woman who has dealt with criticism from all over the place hey entire career is now worried about the tweets of pathetic fanboys to a billionaire. Folks you just can't make this shit up. People out there really believe this stuff.

WTF crack does Elon send out when you make money off his Tesla shares? I mean that is just fucking one of the dumbest things I've read on the internet this past week.

Second, FaceBook is a company Warren has demonized and said had too much power. Yet, she's using FaceBook Ads to attack Elon Musk for political points and to ask for money. Elizebeth Warren is asking for at least $10 donation per person without offering anything in exchange. So, who's the freeloader here?

Placing ads on a platform that has excellent reach for her general presence is freeloading? How is that freeloading? She is paying for ads. WTF are you driveling about? I mean you are grasping at straws right and left to protect your cult leader. You took personal offense to this, it's funny.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Warren is the freeloader. She and her office paid for this FaceBook ad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471848898117390337

What's funny is she's calling him freeloading billionaire who avoids taxes when he's going to pay close to $15 billion in taxes and the largest tax payment by a single taxpayer in the history of the US. Elon and his companies have provided value and advanced science and technology and green energy and his investors have made lot of money because of that. But when did that become immortal? Because he played by the rule she helped design and won under that rule?

again, paying for an ad via the money you have accumulated is freeloading only in the crazed mind of a cultist. Also, you keep spouting about how Elon will pay all these taxes this year - the point about billionaires is not about a year here or a year there, it's about they pay a lower percentage in taxes than people in the middle class and that is patently unfair to them. Also she designed the rules for the tax system that Elon is winning under? She's actively campaigned to change those established rules for a while now. You are rambling and nonsensical at this point.

Also it's telling you only think of this as winning vs losing and nothing else. This all means nothing else to you just winning vs losing. You are like Trump.

All of us that think billionaires should pay at least the same percentage of what they live off of as the poors in the middle class, we will now go be poors and eat cake and be selfish. What's your address, I want to send you a solar powered air pump for your Elon blow up doll for Festivus

 

[ponyo]

@MrSquished is prime example of why poor people stay poor. They're incapable or never try to learn anything new. And they don't know basic math. They know nothing about taxes because they don't personally pay any because they're poor. They freeload off rich people who do pay taxes and yet attack the rich people who are paying the taxes that allow freeloaders like MrSquished to pay little to no taxes.

Let me try to explain this one more time before I give up. Elon Musk takes $0 salary from Tesla. His entire pay compensation is in form of stock options. Tesla stock market cap, revenue, earnings, etc. have to hit certain milestones for Elon to get awarded stock options he can then exercise. If Tesla doesn't hit those set milestones, Elon Musk receives zero stock and zero pay for his time and work at Tesla. This is the pay compensation package that Elon Musk, Tesla Board of Directors, and Tesla shareholders all voted on and agreed to.

Elon signed the first 10 year compensation plan in 2012. Then another 10 year plan in 2018. The first 10 year plan is coming due next year in 2022. Elon Musk achieved and hit every single performance metrics and milestones so he was awarded the full stock options package. So he has the right to exercise all his stock options by end of 2022 or lose it. So he's exercising his stock options and paying his taxes. And because Elon Musk owns more than 10% of Tesla and is not regular employee, his stock option awards are considered compensation income and Elon must pay normal income tax on all the stock options and not capital gains tax. So Elon Musk must pay the max 37% Federal, 13% California, 1.45% Medicare, 0.9% Medicare Supplemental on his entire stock option exercise. So Elon Musk effective tax rate is 52.65%. Let me repeat since we have so many stupid math challenged people here. Elon Musk tax rate is 52.65%. It does not matter if Elon pays tax one year and not another. He only gets paid stock options when Tesla stock price and revenue hits certain set goals. If Tesla doesn't hit those goals, he doesn't get paid. Many years can go by without Tesla stock price/revenue hitting the required target to unlock the next trench of stock option award for Elon Musk.

You can only pay taxes if you have income or sell your investments. Elon Musk usually doesn't sell Tesla stock other than to pay taxes because he believes Tesla shares will be far more valuable in the future and stock price will be higher. He also wants to remain firmly in control of Tesla and the more Tesla shares he holds, the easier it is for him to remain in control.

So to recap, the middle class does not pay higher income tax percentage than Elon Musk despite what crazies like MrSquished falsely believes. Government will eventually collect all their taxes from Elon Musk at the max tax rate when the time comes and Elon Musk sells his shares. People should be allowed to invest and hold and not forced to sell something because the government or some freeloaders want someone's fortune because they have more than someone else.

 

[MrSquished]

@MrSquished is prime example of why poor people stay poor. They're incapable or never try to learn anything new. And they don't know basic math. They know nothing about taxes because they don't personally pay any because they're poor. They freeload off rich people who do pay taxes and yet attack the rich people who are paying the taxes that allow freeloaders like MrSquished to pay little to no taxes.

Let me try to explain this one more time before I give up. Elon Musk takes $0 salary from Tesla. His entire pay compensation is in form of stock options. Tesla stock market cap, revenue, earnings, etc. have to hit certain milestones for Elon to get awarded stock options he can then exercise. If Tesla doesn't hit those set milestones, Elon Musk receives zero stock and zero pay for his time and work at Tesla. This is the pay compensation package that Elon Musk, Tesla Board of Directors, and Tesla shareholders all voted on and agreed to.

Elon signed the first 10 year compensation plan in 2012. Then another 10 year plan in 2018. The first 10 year plan is coming due next year in 2022. Elon Musk achieved and hit every single performance metrics and milestones so he was awarded the full stock options package. So he has the right to exercise all his stock options by end of 2022 or lose it. So he's exercising his stock options and paying his taxes. And because Elon Musk owns more than 10% of Tesla and is not regular employee, his stock option awards are considered compensation income and Elon must pay normal income tax on all the stock options and not capital gains tax. So Elon Musk must pay the max 37% Federal, 13% California, 1.45% Medicare, 0.9% Medicare Supplemental on his entire stock option exercise. So Elon Musk effective tax rate is 52.65%. Let me repeat since we have so many stupid math challenged people here. Elon Musk tax rate is 52.65%. It does not matter if Elon pays tax one year and not another. He only gets paid stock options when Tesla stock price and revenue hits certain set goals. If Tesla doesn't hit those goals, he doesn't get paid. Many years can go by without Tesla stock price/revenue hitting the required target to unlock the next trench of stock option award for Elon Musk.

You can only pay taxes if you have income or sell your investments. Elon Musk usually doesn't sell Tesla stock other than to pay taxes because he believes Tesla shares will be far more valuable in the future and stock price will be higher. He also wants to remain firmly in control of Tesla and the more Tesla shares he holds, the easier it is for him to remain in control.

So to recap, the middle class does not pay higher income tax percentage than Elon Musk despite what crazies like MrSquished falsely believes. Government will eventually collect all their taxes from Elon Musk at the max tax rate when the time comes and Elon Musk sells his shares. People should be allowed to invest and hold and not forced to sell something because the government or some freeloaders want someone's fortune because they have more than someone else.

I know how it works dipshit. That's the whole fucking point. The whole fucking point. And people in this thread like Zorba, and Fskim, and IronWing also get it, and many others.

The fact you still don't get this is sad. I mean you are a simple minded dude that had one smart move in life - you saw some shit on Elon, go hero worship, got into a cult, bought in and rode the gravy train. That's it. People get lucky. Congrats. Being in a cult is scary though.

I mean you really think Warren is scared of Elon fanboys on Twitter and that paying for ads is freeloading. It's fucking idiotic.

The fact you don't see that people can live like billionaires and pay less taxes on a year to year basis than people in the middle class is a problem just shows that you are also part of the problem society faces. It doesn't matter how it happens. It doesn't matter who the person is either. It's not just Elon. This stuff precedes Elon by quite a while, and people have been consistent criticizing the system before Elon was a bigwig.

I know he is your cult leader but this is not just about him, so don't take it too personally lol

I better stop attacking Elon before more Elon fanboys come after me

Oh lord please help me.

Also, yes you are much wealthier than me. And I don't give a shit - money doesn't buy you a soul.

But I live in a nice 400K condo which I bought for 350K and while I don't make over 6 figures, I live a nice life. My folks made about 6 figures each before they retired now over 15 years ago, so in those dollars, and they share my opinion - I got my values from them actually. And my brother in law makes 6 figures, and he agrees, and my two good buddies that just moved out the burbs and had babies also do, and while this is just for shits and giggles but there are many many many many other people make decent money and have a nice life, and pay taxes, and would agree that you are completely wrong and problematic. To you they are all poor freeloaders. It's disgusting.

I mean I know making like $110k a year to you is pauper stuff which is clear by your attitude in this thread calling everyone poor, but that's just because you are an asswipe.

But keep being the Queen of France let them eat cake dbag, and that everyone that thinks the ultra wealthy should pay their fair share in taxes are all poor freeloaders. You are just amusing, but sad. All you have is your money, a worship of money and one billionaire, and overpriced scarves.

 

[cytg111]

I know how it works dipshit. That's the whole fucking point. The whole fucking point. And people in this thread like Zorba, and Fskim, and IronWing also get it, and many others.

The fact you still don't get this is sad. I mean you are a simple minded dude that had one smart move in life - you saw some shit on Elon, go hero worship, got into a cult, bought in and rode the gravy train. That's it. People get lucky. Congrats. Being in a cult is scary though.

I mean you really think Warren is scared of Elon fanboys on Twitter and that paying for ads is freeloading. It's fucking idiotic.

The fact you don't see that people can live like billionaires and pay less taxes on a year to year basis than people in the middle class is a problem just shows that you are also part of the problem society faces. It doesn't matter how it happens. It doesn't matter who the person is either. It's not just Elon. This stuff precedes Elon by quite a while, and people have been consistent criticizing the system before Elon was a bigwig.

I know he is your cult leader but this is not just about him, so don't take it too personally lol

I better stop attacking Elon before more Elon fanboys come after me

Oh lord please help me.

Also, yes you are much wealthier than me. And I don't give a shit - money doesn't buy you a soul.

But I live in a nice 400K condo which I bought for 350K and while I don't make over 6 figures, I live a nice life. My folks made about 6 figures each before they retired now over 15 years ago, so in those dollars, and they share my opinion - I got my values from them actually. And my brother in law makes 6 figures, and he agrees, and my two good buddies that just moved out the burbs and had babies also do, and while this is just for shits and giggles but there are many many many many other people make decent money and have a nice life, and pay taxes, and would agree that you are completely wrong and problematic. To you they are all poor freeloaders. It's disgusting.

I mean I know making like $110k a year to you is pauper stuff which is clear by your attitude in this thread calling everyone poor, but that's just because you are an asswipe.

But keep being the Queen of France let them eat cake dbag, and that everyone that thinks the ultra wealthy should pay their fair share in taxes are all poor freeloaders. You are just amusing, but sad. All you have is your money, a worship of money and one billionaire, and overpriced scarves.

One little note though, what life style are you referring to? I dont see him eating a lot of candy.

 

[MrSquished]

One little note though, what life style are you referring to? I dont see him eating a lot of candy.

Recently Elon downsized everything, except I think he kept one 100 million dollar house in Cali. But he lived for years as a super wealthy individual while paying a lower effective tax rate than a police chief or principal of a school. Again, this is not just about him. He's one of many that do this.

Except for Buffett. In that he has always lived a more modest life, but he is honest - he too plays the tax game, pays what the rules allow him to, but he is honest to admit it's completely stacked in favor of the super rich. He is one of the only honest ones. Which people like ponyo can't be because they value nothing else but their money and the money of the wealthy and nothing else. As you can see he demeans and dismisses anyone in the middle class as poor.

How the system is stacked to the super wealthy has been a topic for far longer than Elon has been a multi billionaire. Longer than Bezos.

 

[cytg111]

I love how people in this thread whine about low rate margin loans only being available to the ultra rich when that's not true.

But it is a weird construct though, maybe just a little too wallstreety smart? That loantype should probably be reengineered somewhat, pay taxes off the loan that is then deductible when you actually realize. Something like that.

 

[cytg111]

Recently Elon downsized everything, except I think he kept one 100 million dollar house in Cali. But he lived for years as a super wealthy individual while paying a lower effective tax rate than a police chief or principal of a school. Again, this is not just about him. He's one of many that do this.

Except for Buffett. In that he has always lived a more modest life, but he is honest - he too plays the tax game, pays what the rules allow him to, but he is honest to admit it's completely stacked in favor of the super rich. He is one of the only honest ones. Which people like ponyo can't be because they value nothing else but the money if the wealthy and nothing else. As you can see he demeans anyone in the middle class as poor.

How the system is stacked to the super wealthy has been a topic for far longer than Elon has been a multi billionaire.

I cant find those numbers anywhere though? I mean its not like he can pay taxes on gains he has not realized yet .. that doesnt make sense, year xxxx Elon got 50 billion richer -> yea on paper, not money in the bank. If you put a wealth tax on him, he'll be forced to sell some stock to pay it -> taking money off the table of the business he is trying to run.
I dont see an easy solution to this. Those margin loans though.. they should probably be refactored.

The thing that itches me a little is the freeloader term .. If you're putting in 90 hours/week, sleeping at the plant etc.. you dont have much time left in the calendar to live that "billionaire freeloading lifestyle" that Warren speaks of.

And true that, I mean if you get to a place where having a set of tax lawyers on the payroll pays off, then, I guess thats what you do. Its wrong, but its what you do.

 

[MrSquished]

I cant find those numbers anywhere though? I mean its not like he can pay taxes on gains he has not realized yet .. that doesnt make sense, year xxxx Elon got 50 billion richer -> yea on paper, not money in the bank. If you put a wealth tax on him, he'll be forced to sell some stock to pay it -> taking money off the table of the business he is trying to run.
I dont see an easy solution to this. Those margin loans though.. they should probably be refactored.

And true that, I mean if you get to a place where having a set of tax lawyers on the payroll pays off, then, I guess thats what you do.

I don't know what the perfect solution is yet, other smarter people can figure that out, but the first step for many is realizing there is an issue that this happens.

Some will be hopeless, like ponyo, that only value their wealth and are also in a cult to an actual billionaire.

There is no issue with wealthy people living wealthy lives, the issue is that they can live like the .001% and pay a less than 10% effective tax rate yearly.

 

[cytg111]

I don't know what the perfect solution is yet, other smarter people can figure that out, but the first step for many is realizing there is an issue that this happens.

Some will be hopeless, like ponyo, that only value their wealth and are also in a cult to an actual billionaire.

There is no issue with wealthy people living wealthy lives, the issue is that they can live like the .001% and pay a less than 10% effective tax rate yearly.

Generically speaking, society as a whole, has a problem if it's engineered for the possibility of generating super wealthy individuals to the tune of being able to buy *all the policy*, through lobbying, media campaigning whatnot. You'd think that society had a mechanism built in to limit the amount of power any one singular individual can amass - for its own self preservation.