Elke's Warning

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
She was born under Hitler, raised under the USSR's sovereignty in East Germany, and came to America as a young adult. LISTEN to her.

Is there anything to be learned from folks like Elke?

I think we've got too many people in the nation that were not taught history, believe that we're a bad nation, with bad people and that Socialism is just misunderstood and has gotten a bad rap. I think we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

I'm glad I've got enough years under my belt that should the Socialists/Communists/Occupiers win out, that I won't have to live too long under the society that they so desperately wish to force upon the nation. The transition is going to be a bitch, but by the time it's completed I won't have many more years left.

Yeah, I know, I'm a nut. Remember that it happens slowly, under the guise of what is just and good and with the full support of many.

The guns though, they've got to get the guns. That's going to be the real interesting part. What comes after the failure of Fast and Furious?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,084
48,097
136
I do love me a slippery slope fallacy to start off the day. Likewise, we should remember the warnings of those who live in Somalia. Reductions in regulations happen slowly, but we've all seen the end result.
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
I can't even begin to understand how deep Reagan's indoctrination against so called socialism runs. When you realize that Reagan's job was to scare white people for decades as he peddled products to them...he truly was a master at brain washing the mob right out of their own teeth. Revel in the muck you poor fucks!
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
81
I do love me a slippery slope fallacy to start off the day. Likewise, we should remember the warnings of those who live in Somalia. Reductions in regulations happen slowly, but we've all seen the end result.

Not all slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,084
48,097
136
Lol, notice she doesn't say anything about Germany now....

Of course not, even though West Germany is far more socialistic than the US is, or even what the Democrats want the US to be.

That's because if anyone takes even the smallest amount of time to think about this topic rationally, you realize that the video is incredibly stupid. Unfortunately a lot of people in America are incredibly stupid.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,437
6,091
126
boomerang: She was born under Hitler, raised under the USSR's sovereignty in East Germany, and came to America as a young adult. LISTEN to her.

Is there anything to be learned from folks like Elke?

M: Think about your question. Surely what any one person can learn from Elke depends totally on what he or she already knows. But what I think your real point is, my personal take on your post so far and to come, is that your real feeling is that she has supported a feeling about the meaning of communism and socialism that you already believe and that your real hope is that her words will inculcate in others that same point of view. But the real point, if I may suggest the one I see, is that the truth of what she has experienced, the disastrous system in which she grew up in, her fear of it and her vision of it happening exactly the same way here, the equivalence, for example, of universal health care here and under Hitler and the assumption that the arrow of history between the two separated by time and very different cultures, imply a similar fate for us today, is, I believe, a mistake in logic and simply a hallucination produced by fear.

b: I think we've got too many people in the nation that were not taught history, believe that we're a bad nation, with bad people and that Socialism is just misunderstood and has gotten a bad rap. I think we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

M: Again, I believe you are applying the delusions of fear, a kind of insanity of thought, magical thinking, really, to simple facts that do not, to a calmer or more balanced mind, perhaps we could even say a better educated mind, and yet one still agreeing with many of the same facts, lead to the same conclusions, that some imminent danger lurks in the direction our culture is taking. Imagine for a second that you took a wrong turn somewhere that led you into a ghetto that was pretty scary. Would you be terrified if somebody else in the car, with a good sense of direction, took the wheel and headed back to the place where the wrong turn was taken. Would you feel, as you approached that intersection, that now some new disaster was in store?

b: I'm glad I've got enough years under my belt that should the Socialists/Communists/Occupiers win out, that I won't have to live too long under the society that they so desperately wish to force upon the nation. The transition is going to be a bitch, but by the time it's completed I won't have many more years left.

M: Do not be so sure. When the robots take over, programmed with a massive AI to bring socialism to all, they will resurrect you and keep you young and safe forever, in a paradise of communal bliss. You must never thing there is any place that is truly safe from the insanity of fear. If you are in for a penny, you are in for a pound.

b: Yeah, I know, I'm a nut. Remember that it happens slowly, under the guise of what is just and good and with the full support of many.

M: Indeed so. Communism and socialism enforced by state power are a nightmare brought about by fear, fear that without a leveling control, others will take everything and the disadvantaged will linger, which is exactly what did happen when the haves, fearing the have nots would take everything from them, had the upper hand.

b: The guns though, they've got to get the guns. That's going to be the real interesting part. What comes after the failure of Fast and Furious?

M: There is a huge economy that runs on fear, fear of anything and everything and those who work in that economy have as their task to make you frightened so they can get something from you in exchange for some delusional safety. The NRA is one such organization, the church another. Then there are the survivalists, the politicians, the news media, it is really endless. You must never fall behind the Mr and Mrs Jones next door in any way. You have to wear the right clothes, find the right friends, get the right job, run your little tread mill.

Fear is death. The frightened are dead. We have lost our lives and our way. You have lived long enough in fear that it really is time to die. Do it. Know that everything you fear happened long ago when you were a child and all your terrors are the terrors of a little child controlled by the monsters who gave birth to you. But you do not remember and your terror is that you will. Let yourself feel what you really feel. The road to heaven is found by those who make a wrong turn into hell. The only place that's truly safe is in a state of love.

As somebody once told me: I am the Divinely Beloved who loves you more than you can possibly ever love yourself. Relax and be happy.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,061
27,795
136
She was born under Hitler, raised under the USSR's sovereignty in East Germany, and came to America as a young adult. LISTEN to her.

Is there anything to be learned from folks like Elke?

I think we've got too many people in the nation that were not taught history, believe that we're a bad nation, with bad people and that Socialism is just misunderstood and has gotten a bad rap. I think we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

I'm glad I've got enough years under my belt that should the Socialists/Communists/Occupiers win out, that I won't have to live too long under the society that they so desperately wish to force upon the nation. The transition is going to be a bitch, but by the time it's completed I won't have many more years left.

Yeah, I know, I'm a nut. Remember that it happens slowly, under the guise of what is just and good and with the full support of many.

The guns though, they've got to get the guns. That's going to be the real interesting part. What comes after the failure of Fast and Furious?

I agree with you. How did we let Michelle Bachman teach American history? Remember "the founding fathers ended slavery"
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
I agree with you. How did we let Michelle Bachman teach American history? Remember "the founding fathers ended slavery"
You should try thinking like an adult occasionally. My post was to provoke some thought and discussion and you respond like a fourth grader?

Has Michele Bachmann got cooties too?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
AAiiieee! Soshulists! Ebil! Keep your hands off my SS & my Medicare, my farm subsidies & tax welfare for energy corps! Get away from my national parks & monuments, State parks & National Forests, too! My interstate highway system! My Fire Dept! My air traffic control!

Aieee! No! No!!! Ebil!!!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,084
48,097
136
You should try thinking like an adult occasionally. My post was to provoke some thought and discussion and you respond like a fourth grader?

Has Michele Bachmann got cooties too?

What thought were you attempting to provoke exactly? Who do you think 'the socialists' are in America? How will they gain power? What exact laws will they enact in order to make the US like communist Eastern Europe?

Do you believe that the Obama Administration wants to take people's guns away? What makes you believe this, and what do you think they will do next?

If you spell all this out I think it would be useful A.) to figure out exactly what you are thinking, and B.) to show you how nuts it is.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,061
27,795
136
You should try thinking like an adult occasionally. My post was to provoke some thought and discussion and you respond like a fourth grader?

Has Michele Bachmann got cooties too?

I have no idea.

On serious note my point was I'm not in favor of people like her who prefer the "whitewashing" of american history.

You have to be able to think and read past one dimension
 

dali71

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,116
21
81
You should try thinking like an adult occasionally. My post was to provoke some thought and discussion and you respond like a fourth grader?

Has Michele Bachmann got cooties too?

Michele Bachmann makes demonstrably false statements because she is ignorant and doesn't know any better. Homer knowingly makes false statements because he is a partisan hack. Which is worse?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,061
27,795
136
Michele Bachmann makes demonstrably false statements because she is ignorant and doesn't know any better. Homer knowingly makes false statements because he is a partisan hack. Which is worse?

FALSE?? She DID say that in a speech!!!! You want to "whitewash" her history too??
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
boomerang: She was born under Hitler, raised under the USSR's sovereignty in East Germany, and came to America as a young adult. LISTEN to her.

Is there anything to be learned from folks like Elke?

M: Think about your question. Surely what any one person can learn from Elke depends totally on what he or she already knows. But what I think your real point is, my personal take on your post so far and to come, is that your real feeling is that she has supported a feeling about the meaning of communism and socialism that you already believe and that your real hope is that her words will inculcate in others that same point of view. But the real point, if I may suggest the one I see, is that the truth of what she has experienced, the disastrous system in which she grew up in, her fear of it and her vision of it happening exactly the same way here, the equivalence, for example, of universal health care here and under Hitler and the assumption that the arrow of history between the two separated by time and very different cultures, imply a similar fate for us today, is, I believe, a mistake in logic and simply a hallucination produced by fear.

b: I think we've got too many people in the nation that were not taught history, believe that we're a bad nation, with bad people and that Socialism is just misunderstood and has gotten a bad rap. I think we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of history.

M: Again, I believe you are applying the delusions of fear, a kind of insanity of thought, magical thinking, really, to simple facts that do not, to a calmer or more balanced mind, perhaps we could even say a better educated mind, and yet one still agreeing with many of the same facts, lead to the same conclusions, that some imminent danger lurks in the direction our culture is taking. Imagine for a second that you took a wrong turn somewhere that led you into a ghetto that was pretty scary. Would you be terrified if somebody else in the car, with a good sense of direction, took the wheel and headed back to the place where the wrong turn was taken. Would you feel, as you approached that intersection, that now some new disaster was in store?

b: I'm glad I've got enough years under my belt that should the Socialists/Communists/Occupiers win out, that I won't have to live too long under the society that they so desperately wish to force upon the nation. The transition is going to be a bitch, but by the time it's completed I won't have many more years left.

M: Do not be so sure. When the robots take over, programmed with a massive AI to bring socialism to all, they will resurrect you and keep you young and safe forever, in a paradise of communal bliss. You must never thing there is any place that is truly safe from the insanity of fear. If you are in for a penny, you are in for a pound.

b: Yeah, I know, I'm a nut. Remember that it happens slowly, under the guise of what is just and good and with the full support of many.

M: Indeed so. Communism and socialism enforced by state power are a nightmare brought about by fear, fear that without a leveling control, others will take everything and the disadvantaged will linger, which is exactly what did happen when the haves, fearing the have nots would take everything from them, had the upper hand.

b: The guns though, they've got to get the guns. That's going to be the real interesting part. What comes after the failure of Fast and Furious?

M: There is a huge economy that runs on fear, fear of anything and everything and those who work in that economy have as their task to make you frightened so they can get something from you in exchange for some delusional safety. The NRA is one such organization, the church another. Then there are the survivalists, the politicians, the news media, it is really endless. You must never fall behind the Mr and Mrs Jones next door in any way. You have to wear the right clothes, find the right friends, get the right job, run your little tread mill.

Fear is death. The frightened are dead. We have lost our lives and our way. You have lived long enough in fear that it really is time to die. Do it. Know that everything you fear happened long ago when you were a child and all your terrors are the terrors of a little child controlled by the monsters who gave birth to you. But you do not remember and your terror is that you will. Let yourself feel what you really feel. The road to heaven is found by those who make a wrong turn into hell. The only place that's truly safe is in a state of love.

As somebody once told me: I am the Divinely Beloved who loves you more than you can possibly ever love yourself. Relax and be happy.
One casual mention in OT and you've been resurrected yet again! How exciting! I'm not sure which mod's alt account you are but I learned to ignore your ramblings a long, long time ago.

I will give you credit if it's due. Unlike eskimospy, there is a chance you actually listened to what Elke had to say. Of course you summarily dismissed it like the good comrade that you are.

The essence of your message is always the same. Moonbeam the thinker, thinking he's thinking better than anyone else could possibly think. You're a hoot.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
The history of the USSR is not going to repeat itself in the US.

First of all, the USSR was never democratic. There wasn't much of a mass media. Russian was in most ways pre-industrial. There was basically a coup.

The US is not going to have a group of young ideologues come in by force and then overthrow a democracy while the mass media and general population stand by.

What you're really scared of is a slow Democratic creep towards "socialist" policies. If that's the case it would be totally different than the USSR and there would be no history repeating itself.

So while you talk about not learning from history, if you actually delved a little deeper you would see it's not applicable.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
AAiiieee! Soshulists! Ebil! Keep your hands off my SS & my Medicare, my farm subsidies & tax welfare for energy corps! Get away from my national parks & monuments, State parks & National Forests, too! My interstate highway system! My Fire Dept! My air traffic control!

Aieee! No! No!!! Ebil!!!
Please, please come up with something other than this tired old schtick that nobody listens too anymore.

We get it, really we do. We need a government. Everyone but anarchists thinks so.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,084
48,097
136
Please, please come up with something other than this tired old schtick that nobody listens too anymore.

We get it, really we do. We need a government. Everyone but anarchists thinks so.

Can you not see that what he just did there is the mirror image of your OP?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
One casual mention in OT and you've been resurrected yet again! How exciting! I'm not sure which mod's alt account you are but I learned to ignore your ramblings a long, long time ago.

Doesn't it say a lot that some ego-stroking made him come back? For the people that cried for him to come back, be careful for what you wish for. He's supposed to the wise Sufi mystic account but if he posts long enough he devolves into the underlying fury and ego-driven nonsense.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
The history of the USSR is not going to repeat itself in the US.

First of all, the USSR was never democratic. There wasn't much of a mass media. Russian was in most ways pre-industrial. There was basically a coup.

The US is not going to have a group of young ideologues come in by force and then overthrow a democracy while the mass media and general population stand by.

What you're really scared of is a slow Democratic creep towards "socialist" policies. If that's the case it would be totally different than the USSR and there would be no history repeating itself.

So while you talk about not learning from history, if you actually delved a little deeper you would see it's not applicable.
I'm not 'scared' of anything. I'm providing a counterpoint to a trend in this nation. A growing movement fueled by ignorance. Masses demonstrating for free stuff ignoring the fact that someone has to pay for it. College should be free? I'm pretty astounded that our educational system can actually crank out this much ignorance.

When things get dangerous is when everyone starts thinking alike.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Can you not see that what he just did there is the mirror image of your OP?

Please. Why do you feel the need to defend Jhhnn's post? He always does the same routine anytime anyone raises a conservative concern. In this instance, I disagree with Boomerang but that doesn't mean Jhhnn's post isn't the same-old garbage.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Doesn't it say a lot that some ego-stroking made him come back? For the people that cried for him to come back, be careful for what you wish for. He's supposed to the wise Sufi mystic account but if he posts long enough he devolves into the underlying fury and ego-driven nonsense.
For whatever reason, I've always been able to skim through his posts and just ignore them. Ego-driven nonsense! I love it!

Enough for now, I'm going to get out and enjoy this unseasonably delightful weather we're having!
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
I'm providing a counterpoint to a trend in this nation. A growing movement fueled by ignorance. Masses demonstrating for free stuff ignoring the fact that someone has to pay for it. College should be free? I'm pretty astounded that our educational system can actually crank out this much ignorance.

You may be right about a trend to the left, but you should look at Western Europe or Northern Europe for an analogy. The USSR is not really a similar situation. The US has a fair way to go to be as socialist as Western Europe. And Western Europe has been left-wing for more than half a century without devolving into some sort of USSR.