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Elizabeth Warren calls for an end to the Electoral College

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Starbuck1975 said:
That barren wasteland is home to tens of millions of people. The examples you gave are perfect reasons why the electoral college is effective.
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lol, no it isn't. but that ~10% of the CA population does account for 95-98% of the state water demand, so in terms of "who draws water," they definitely aren't ignored.
 
thilanliyan said:
How is that any different from exerting all their energy into the "swing" states and ignoring everything else? Is it tyrannical if the majority of the people want something? The current system creates a "tyranny of the minority" then by your logic.
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"so be it"
 
the electoral college evens the playing field for less populated states, similar to how the senate checks the house.

thats how the framers intended it
 
mdram said:
the electoral college evens the playing field for less populated states, similar to how the senate checks the house.

thats how the framers intended it
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as has been mentioned umpteen times in this thread already, it does no such thing. and it never has done such a thing, because political parties upstaged any notion of loyalty to one's own state uber alles almost immediately after the signing of the constitution.
 
mdram said:
the electoral college evens the playing field for less populated states, similar to how the senate checks the house.

thats how the framers intended it
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No, the framers intended it to protect slavery and to prevent an unqualified demagogue from attaining the presidency. The first reason is morally evil and the second reason just got proven ineffective.
 
Luna1968 said:
the founding fathers knew that a democratic popular vote on a federal level was a bad idea. im going to side with their wisdom and not have NY, Illinois, California decide for the whole country how the president is. why even vote?
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[throws flag]

We have two logical fallacies on the post.

1. Appeal to Authority
2. Appeal to Tradition

The discussion will be moved back 15yds and restarted.
 
Even the 'it gives small states an advantage' argument is bad as it's just as silly as with the Senate. The borders of states are essentially arbitrary and so there's no particular reason to give ones with limited populations more clout. Wyoming was a federally decided box without any particular rationale behind its borders. Why should that arbitrary line drawing make the people who live there count far more than those in California, another arbitrary creation?

What governing sense does this make?
 
zinfamous said:
lol, no it isn't. but that ~10% of the CA population does account for 95-98% of the state water demand, so in terms of "who draws water," they definitely aren't ignored.
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Are you taking into account agriculture. That desolate wasteland of a desert is where someone thought it was a good idea to invest in agriculture, and also a lakeside resort (looking at you Salton Sea)
 
fskimospy said:
Even the 'it gives small states an advantage' argument is bad as it's just as silly as with the Senate. The borders of states are essentially arbitrary and so there's no particular reason to give ones with limited populations more clout. Wyoming was a federally decided box without any particular rationale behind its borders. Why should that arbitrary line drawing make the people who live there count far more than those in California, another arbitrary creation?

What governing sense does this make?
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until 1860 admission to the union, and thus, what parts of territory got carved up and made into states, was dependent on the answer to the slavery question, and so is still a vestige of slavery.
 
mdram said:
the electoral college evens the playing field for less populated states, similar to how the senate checks the house.

thats how the framers intended it
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Don't agree at all.

In fact it opens up a lot more paths to victory than the current system.

Right now the game is and only is:

1. Primaries:
Promise farm & ethanol subsidies to get through IA (both parties), low taxes/sm gov for NH (both parties), and appeal to racism or reparations (depending if you are R or D) for the SC primary.

Field narrows, ride momentum to Super Tuesday.

2. General:
Go all in pandering to battlegrounds, esp OH and FL. Sprinkle in social wedges to shore up base and hopefully split votes.

Fly to CA, NY, TX and IL to raise money, otherwise they can GFTS.

Use money to run lots of ads calling your opponent a corrupt loon.

Rinse and repeat (at least for every election I've ever voted in.)

Get to DC, get little done as no national consensus was reached.

Fundraise off of failure/blame for next election.
 
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Conservative responses in this thread just prove David Frum right-

If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.
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Their leadership already has. It's multi-faceted in gerrymandering, voter suppression & now even fucking with the census. Conservatives only defend the EC because it gave them anomalous wins in 2000 & 2016 & may again in the future. The chances of it giving any advantage to Dems is nil.

What's even worse is the way they totally disregard the Will of the People by ramming home what really is a right wing agenda that serves only the wealthiest.
 
As Michael Signer explains, the framers were particularly afraid of the people choosing a demagogue. The electors, Hamilton believed, would prevent someone with “talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from becoming president. And they would combat “the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” They would prevent America’s adversaries from meddling in its elections. The founders created the Electoral College, in other words, in part to prevent the election of someone like Donald Trump.
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Unfortunately the electoral college no longer works as designed.
 
Get rid of the EC, replace it with the popular vote. And only let those that pay federal income tax or property tax vote 😛
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Are you taking into account agriculture. That desolate wasteland of a desert is where someone thought it was a good idea to invest in agriculture, and also a lakeside resort (looking at you Salton Sea)
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I'm exactly referencing agriculture. ...you think it's too low? OK then, 99% of the state's water. 😀
 
Promise to do everything to get rid of the electoral college AND to abolish daylight saving time.
Just do the two above and its guaranteed smooth sailing into the Whitehouse.
 
Please pleae let Texas go blue next election. The conservatard hypocrites here will be singing praise of abolishing the EC and how the founding fathers were idiots. But then they would also have to adopt a better party message as well. Sucks to be them.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Would this satisfy the lefties here?

This would accomplish your goal of every vote having a purpose - AND it wouldn't require a constitutional amendment (but I presume will require law change at the state level?)
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I wouldn't have a problem with it, but if the EC votes are proportionate to the popular vote in every state, then it's the same as a popular vote except for possible rounding errors, so why have the EC at all? He's talking about reforming the EC in a manner which would make it irrelevant.
 
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