Electromagnetics and Energy

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Sahakiel

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: Cogman
People saying this is imposible should reconsider. Im open to the thought that he might have suceeded in makeing such a divice (if so we need to get it down to the size of a batery so I can get one for our Laptop, Endless playing time :)) But really, in the 1400's the Human race thought that it knew everything about the world, but then some guy, Who was rejected 3 times might I add, Travel into the middle of nowhere and found a Landmass that doubled the size of the earth, (How big the scientists thought the earth was.) We could know comparitivly Nothing about a basic Princable, like gravity. Maybe gravity doesnt alway atract, Maybe sometimes it repels...

Funny thing about science. You can pretty much propose anything you want, and until it's disproved, it is taken as fact. A lot of postulates are shot down right off the bat because they fly head on into the face of proven theory.
However, to disprove something, you must provide a counter proof, and we end up with what would seem to be a viscious cycle until you realize there exist the correspondence principle. All new theories cannot disprove older, established theories, only limit their reach.

That theory about the world being flat... it supposedly "proved", but nobody ever walked to the edge of the Earth and returned to tell the tale. It was just taken at face value, swallowed, and anyone who said otherwise was burned at the stake. We look back now and say it is an outright lie and Columbus' expedition and modern science took the old theory and utterly shredded it. However, I disagree. The way I see it, those old theories are now limited by scale, ablbeit a very narrow scale. Yes, the world IS flat, but only when you're standing on the ground and looking no farther than, say, a few miles, or you're flying above in an airplane looking down and never looking at the horizon. This is similar to how General Relativity works wonders at the planetary scale, but breaks down at the atomic/sub-atomic level where quantum mechanics takes over. Of course, neither does a good job with black holes, so that would require a new theory, and then, eventually, hopefully, the Grand Unifying Theory will encompass all scales.

At any rate, maybe the device does work, maybe it's vaporware, or maybe it flat-out doesn't work. At any rate, one of the foundations of science and especially physics is that any proposed phenomenon must be reproducible under controlled environments. So if it works, someone else should be able to confirm it. Then, there's the First Law of Thermodynamics : energy is conserved. As has been mentioned many times, there is no free lunch. If it works, splendid. Something still gets used up, though, which means it's the same as any other generator or engine. It uses a fuel. Even renewable energy sources like solar, wind, and geothermal use a fuel. If the device doesn't work, oh, well, wouldn't be the first time.
 

Hamburgerpimp

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2000
7,464
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I kind of forgot about this thread, thinking it had turned into a flame war. Checked back after a week and I'm glad to see some intelligent conversation about the topic. Which is all I wanted.
 

everman

Lifer
Nov 5, 2002
11,288
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As I understand it this is not supposed to create energy (as this would violate the second law of thermaldynamics) but it "extracts" energy from an unknown source. Well if such a thing existed, and it actually produced energy (energy output > input) then it would be a monumental invention. If it really was real though, I would question where the energy came from, and the effects of it being removed from where it was...
 

grant2

Golden Member
May 23, 2001
1,165
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if it's true this device merely harnesses and drains magnetic force, then it may eventually become a useful battery. ... if they can make it small & light enough, but it lasts for 20 years, then it would be great for smoke detectors, laptops, etc.
 

grant2

Golden Member
May 23, 2001
1,165
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Originally posted by: CTho9305
The fact that something is patented means nothing. Is this 6 year old brilliant? The patent office lets a LOT of stupid things go by.


"The user may even choose to produce a Tarzan-type yell while swinging in the manner described, which more accurately replicates swinging on vines in a dense jungle forest. Actual jungle forestry is not required. "

AHAHAHA

"Licenses are available from the inventor upon request. "

AHAHAHAH


 

Shalmanese

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,157
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Its kind of hard to keep on keeping an open mind when you get confronted by this type of crap every single week, sometimes due toa basic misunderstanding about how physics works, but sometimes due to just plain greed and deception. Hundreds of people have been suckered into investing in perpetual motion machines and NOBODY has ever got one off the ground.

Its all very well and good to say that science was created in the revolutions but you forget that every brilliant revolutionaries have a million crackpots and hucksters all proclaiming similar things so ecuse me if im a bit skeptical at first.
 

dkozloski

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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An itinerate salesman spent the winter in the remote village of Rampart, Alaska, sequestered in an abondoned machine shop that had been used to maintain the old Yukon River steamboats. Curiosity overwhelmed the other residents until they pestered him into admitting he had built a perpetual motion machine. Of course they forced him to take their money as investors. In the spring he took the money and headed for New York to make their fortune. When they didn't get any reports from him on progress they inquired of the bush pilot that had provided transportation who replied "You mean that guy who laughed like a lunatic all the way to town?".
 

grant2

Golden Member
May 23, 2001
1,165
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The energy created by this device would actually come from the 4th dimension; space-time.

Hamburgerpimp i'm honestly curious how energy can "come from" a dimension, which in the case of "height," "width," "length," and "time" are abstractions of human measurement.
 

Geniere

Senior member
Sep 3, 2002
336
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For the doubters, please use this link:

http://physicsweb.org/article/world/15/9/6[/L]

Numerous articles on the net from our top research labs indicate that energy extracted from a perfect vacumn has been used to generate mechanical motion.

Search for "Casimir Effect" or "zero point fluctuations"

Regards
 

Shalmanese

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,157
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as has been noted, the casmir effect is well understood and can not produce energy out of nothing as suggested. It does NOT violate the 2nd law.

what probably hasn't been yet hammered home strongly enough is that there have been HUNDREDS of perpetual motion machines based on the Casmir effect. All of them exhibit the same basic misunderstanding (or deception) and NONE of them have worked. if this just claims to be another, run-of-the mill casmir perpetual motion machine, then that is even stronger grounds to dismiss it.
 

blahblah99

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2000
2,689
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E=mc² and thus E=tc² (t is delta-t)

Since when did a change in time equal's mass? The units would be all messed up since you're replacing newtons with seconds, and that no longer equals energy.