Elder Scrolls Online release date 4-4-14

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DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,444
2,084
126
You know, people keep saying that, but i enjoyed ToA. It sure made the game easier, you got more powerful, resting was made easier, and its not unusual to see people with full cap on their armors and weapons. But the gameplay remained similar, and the trials themselves were great. PvP is still great, you dont get to rape people quite as badly now (like an armsman with piercing pole going against a chain wearer), but it still pays to have skill.

What upsets me is that you can have toons in all 3 realms and log to any realm at any time, which suxx for the number of spies it brings. Also, some poeple zerg with mid, take relic, log to alb, zerg with alb, take back relic, etc.
When they are done, they log to Hib and smoke weed. (hib still most sux0r realm by numbers .. but vamps rule)
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
I enjoy the game, that is the whole point of playing a game. It has flaws no doubt but I can see them fixed easily enough. The flaws pointed out are the same in every review, so that is actually encouraging because you know what needs fixed.

Now if they fix them is another matter. The top things that need fixed...
1. Less questing for leveling. They just need a entire zone that can be leveling from 1-50 pve style. Simple quests like "Go kill 100 Orcs" would actually be AWESOME in this game.
2. Introduce PvP quests IN pve zones.
3. Give horses automatically in PvP zones.
4. More risk vs reward scenarios.
5. More dungeons and less copy and paste dungeons.
6. Keeps need redesigned, they are too big at the moment. They also need more minor outposts that can be captured for some sort of PvE boost to give people out (Single tower with 5 guards for %1 pve exp gain, etc).

Those are the only real problems with the game, which can be fixed.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
I enjoy the game, that is the whole point of playing a game. It has flaws no doubt but I can see them fixed easily enough. The flaws pointed out are the same in every review, so that is actually encouraging because you know what needs fixed.

Now if they fix them is another matter. The top things that need fixed...
1. Less questing for leveling. They just need a entire zone that can be leveling from 1-50 pve style. Simple quests like "Go kill 100 Orcs" would actually be AWESOME in this game.
2. Introduce PvP quests IN pve zones.
3. Give horses automatically in PvP zones.
4. More risk vs reward scenarios.
5. More dungeons and less copy and paste dungeons.
6. Keeps need redesigned, they are too big at the moment. They also need more minor outposts that can be captured for some sort of PvE boost to give people out (Single tower with 5 guards for %1 pve exp gain, etc).

Those are the only real problems with the game, which can be fixed.

I can only say I disagree with every single point you made. :p
 

Tequila

Senior member
Oct 24, 1999
882
11
76
I can only say I disagree with every single point you made. :p

Why would you disagree with point #1? He's dead on about lack of grinding xp in vet levels. Once you do the anchors, public dungeons and bosses then your back to questing to finish out the rest of the level. Even though the quests in ESO are fun it still gets boring doing quest after quest. You need to be able to chill and just do some mindless grinding for respectable xp like you could do from 1-50. Getting 50xp for a vet mob kill is a joke.

It also takes away from wanting to level an alt for me. No way in hell I want to do all those quests again.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Why would you disagree with point #1? He's dead on about lack of grinding xp in vet levels. Once you do the anchors, public dungeons and bosses then your back to questing to finish out the rest of the level. Even though the quests in ESO are fun it still gets boring doing quest after quest. You need to be able to chill and just do some mindless grinding for respectable xp like you could do from 1-50. Getting 50xp for a vet mob kill is a joke.

It also takes away from wanting to level an alt for me. No way in hell I want to do all those quests again.

You can easily grind instead of questing. And it can be even faster.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Why would you disagree with point #1? He's dead on about lack of grinding xp in vet levels. Once you do the anchors, public dungeons and bosses then your back to questing to finish out the rest of the level. Even though the quests in ESO are fun it still gets boring doing quest after quest. You need to be able to chill and just do some mindless grinding for respectable xp like you could do from 1-50. Getting 50xp for a vet mob kill is a joke.

It also takes away from wanting to level an alt for me. No way in hell I want to do all those quests again.

That is the one I most emphatically disagree with. No and FUCK NO.

Grinding is fucking stupid. I hate standing in one spot killing a retarded amount of the same thing over and over. That's not fun, that's fucking working. It's something a simpleton bot can do.

I prefer quests that have far more interaction, story line, and variance in their approach to the quest building blocks. This is why ESO is damn good. There is no mindless kill 50 orcs repeatable quests. Those are the most boring effing quests in a game and I will NEVER play a game that has a profusion of those quests. Those are bad lazy game design mechanics.

But like ShintaiDK, I disagree with everything imaheadcase listed he wants in this game. You want those things then go play any one of the plethora of Asian PVP centric grinding games out there which all do exactly that and have fun. I can even recommend a few of the "better" ones for you as well to try if you can't find them. Hell, you might be more intersted in Archeage since it is mainly a PVP grinding game.
 
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Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
Grinding is fucking stupid. I hate standing in one spot killing a retarded amount of the same thing over and over. That's not fun, that's fucking working. It's something a simpleton bot can do.

Disagree. I hate the word "grinding." It's all a subjective matter of labeling. If you stand in one spot mindlessly focused on getting exp... yeah that's not necessarily fun (although loot drops add a measure of randomness to individual encounters). But you can't have a singular focus on questing for leveling. Quests are expensive content to produce, and unlike camping spawns or exploring for loot they have really low replay value. Why would you read a chapter of a book and then immediately go back and re-read it four or five times? The only reason people do that with quests is for exp or loot, and for my money that is a lot more tedious than exploring around, killing mobs, camping various spawns, etc. That sort of activity is a core part of the RPG experience. It allows me to make my own way without being trapped in the developer's idea of how the story should unfold.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
Sure guys, you just love the same copy and paste dungeons, and the endless "So and so is in trouble, run a million miles to help him" quests, no reason to PvP, etc.

Anyways I got a nice screenshot of over 60 bots in action today. No GMs at all, and every bot is level 40+ v1+. rofl http://i.imgur.com/qwTigiG.jpg I noticed bots now sometimes you can't report because name has a weird charactor in it.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
My second character Ill try to do with more grinding and less questing. Though I have this affliction for filling out the map.

The dungeon design is lame. They are simple and really only worth going into for the skyshard and notficiation on the map it has been completed. I liked how DAOC has static dungeons that were progressively more difficult the deeper you went into them.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Disagree. I hate the word "grinding." It's all a subjective matter of labeling. If you stand in one spot mindlessly focused on getting exp... yeah that's not necessarily fun (although loot drops add a measure of randomness to individual encounters). But you can't have a singular focus on questing for leveling. Quests are expensive content to produce, and unlike camping spawns or exploring for loot they have really low replay value. Why would you read a chapter of a book and then immediately go back and re-read it four or five times? The only reason people do that with quests is for exp or loot, and for my money that is a lot more tedious than exploring around, killing mobs, camping various spawns, etc. That sort of activity is a core part of the RPG experience. It allows me to make my own way without being trapped in the developer's idea of how the story should unfold.

Quests are what make the game fun when done right. Repeatable grinding quests are not fun. If a game is badly developed to require grinding at some point to progress to the next level due to inappropriate quest setup, then that is just bad.

It's not hard as a game designer to make a determination of how many "quests" you want the user to have to do of a given level to reach the next level of progression. It's not hard to calculate at all. Nor is it hard to set the appropriate reward for those quests to provide that.

Most of the lazy ass MMO's out there have a half dozen quests available at a given level. Doing all the quests at higher levels gets you perhaps 5% of the way to completion to the next level. You can't do higher level quests because they'd crush your character or they are completely unavailable in the first place. Which requires the player to grind out the other 95% to get to more "story" content with the quests.



When it comes to "story" it is exactly as how the developers deem it to be. There isn't a true sandbox story and there will never be one in an MMORPG. It is literally technically impossible to accomplish. So you either have a story on rails, or little to no story at all. The vast majority of MMORPGs (most of which are failures) fall into the later case.

Properly balanced questing, and quest hubs produce variety that is the essence of keeping the vast majority of players for this type of genre entertained. Grinding or mindless repeatable kill quests are not variety. Loot is a bandaid and lazy variety.

There is a smaller minority of players that prefer the camp in one spot and grind out the experience. Maybe move between a couple of camps for some minimal variety. That is easy to produce and is done in every single MMORPG game. Even ESO you can do that from level to VR10 if that style of game play suits you. Complaining that there are too many quests to do is effing retarded. Don't like them don't do them. I would agree with someone that had a beef with the game had the game given zero experience when killing something. In which case the only progression would be through questing. No MMO, besides EVE, does something like that. Asking for ESO to be more lazy in leveling design and variety is plain retarded in my opinion.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Sure guys, you just love the same copy and paste dungeons, and the endless "So and so is in trouble, run a million miles to help him" quests, no reason to PvP, etc.

Anyways I got a nice screenshot of over 60 bots in action today. No GMs at all, and every bot is level 40+ v1+. rofl http://i.imgur.com/qwTigiG.jpg I noticed bots now sometimes you can't report because name has a weird charactor in it.

Let's see, pick any MMO out there, count the dungeon availability and variety. Especially at release. WoW had less than a dozen at release. Even now they only have about 60ish unique dungeons in the game with all their expansions.

ESO has the "private" group dungeon trio's starting at level 12.

Level 12-15 trio: Banished Cells, Spindle Clutch, Fungal Grotto
Level 20-23 trio: Elden Hollow, Wayrest Sewers, Darkshade Caverns
Level 28-31 trio: City of Ash, Crypt of Hearts, Arx Corinium
Level 34-36 trio: Tempest Island, Volenfell, Direfrost Keep
Level 40-43 trio: Selene's Web, Blackheart Haven, Blessed Crucible

Then there are the 3 Cold Harbour dungeons. One for 44-46, one for 46-48, and one for 48-50.

On top of that they reconfigure the encounters completely for the Veteran versions of those dungeons.

You have 18 unique long group dungeon layouts with unique encounters. You have veteran re-vamps of 9 of those dungeons with a re-vamp for veterans with completely different bosses for the fights and fight mechanic layouts.

On top of that, you have a crap ton of small "public" dungeons. Some of which are the same layout, but the base is about 30ish small dungeon designs that are reused 3 to 4 times each throughout the game for about 100+ small public dungeon jaunts.

No game in the history off MMORPGs has ever provided as many comprehensive dungeon choices at launch. Many years later, most MMOs still do not have the same variety that ESO has right now. And you still are bitching? FFS.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Now there is plenty to complain about with ESO.

Crap ton of bugged quests. Most of which has known about for ages. They are working through them faster now since launch than they ever did in beta.

Phasing and syncing problems plague this game. Makes grouping for most quests damn near impossible. Also is the root problem for most of the bugged quests in the first place.

Stupid exploits left in the game at launch. It was like they didn't learn a damn thing for the glut of MMOs released previously that had almost the exact same problems in terms of exploits.

Horrible game mechanics in dealing with bots, gold farmers, and gold spammers. Again, they didn't learn jack shit about how other games have dealt successfully with those issues.

Broken pvp balance. None of the high level PVP was tested, nor the werewolf/vamp skills tested for shit. Of course they all come out broke in some form or another.

Lack of mob variety. There are 24 monster types in the game. That's it. The mob variety, specifically the lack of, is appalling.

Lack of voice acting. I rather have hundreds of no-name voice actors than the same repeated dozen a-list voice actors reused everywhere in the game.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
No game in the history off MMORPGs has ever provided as many comprehensive dungeon choices at launch. Many years later, most MMOs still do not have the same variety that ESO has right now. And you still are bitching? FFS.

Mmm you must be playing different MMO than me. Because this MMO has 70 of the same copy and paste dungeons. Not only that, but the mobs spawns are EXACTLY in the same spot in each one of them. I've never seen that in a MMO.

It would be different if it was the same dungeon, with different experiences in it. But come on.

Quests in this game are mind numbing boring, people prefer to grind. One reason the popular add on to mute NPCs exists. A few quests with a good story is what the game needs, not countless ones that are the same drivel with different names used.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Mmm you must be playing different MMO than me. Because this MMO has 70 of the same copy and paste dungeons. Not only that, but the mobs spawns are EXACTLY in the same spot in each one of them. I've never seen that in a MMO.

It would be different if it was the same dungeon, with different experiences in it. But come on.

Quests in this game are mind numbing boring, people prefer to grind. One reason the popular add on to mute NPCs exists. A few quests with a good story is what the game needs, not countless ones that are the same drivel with different names used.

Uhhh, yes, there are 70" "copy pasta" public "dungeons" out there and I use that dungeon term loosely. It's not really a "dungeon" but a spawn camp that you have to enter a door to get to and out of. No different than spawn camp full of orcs in the same layout as the previous 100+ camps in damn near every other mmo.

I think the problem is you want to assign the term "dungeon" to all those tiny little public areas. Those aren't really dungeons. Banished Cells. That is a dungeon. Random spot on a map that has a skyshard in a dark hole isn't a dungeon. It's a hole in the ground with a few trash mobs and a skyshard.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I'm giving serious thought to buying this game... any opinions on it for someone who's mostly interested in just solo'ing/exploring/etc and doesn't care much about PvP or whatever the ESO equivilent of endgame raiding it?

getting a bit bored with SWTOR and I tried playing RIFT again, but I'm struggling to deal with the graphics. lol
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
I'm giving serious thought to buying this game... any opinions on it for someone who's mostly interested in just solo'ing/exploring/etc and doesn't care much about PvP or whatever the ESO equivilent of endgame raiding it?

getting a bit bored with SWTOR and I tried playing RIFT again, but I'm struggling to deal with the graphics. lol

ESO is a solo'ers paradise for an MMO. You can level up completely soloing monsters kills for experience or questing all the way to 50. From 50 to 60 (or VR1 to VR10) you'll have to do some monster grinding as questing alone isn't enough.

There are group only dungeons and very sporadic group only content. Although the group only content is still "solo" since it is all open to the public. Meaning you come upon a group content event like an "anchor" event and if you are alone all that is required is just waiting a minute or two for more people to show up. They eventually do. Same thing with the "world" boss areas. They aren't all that solo-able, even if you are over leveled in comparison to the world boss.

Still the vast majority of the game is solo-able and requires zero pvp participation. The main story line quests are forced solo quests, and they can be very difficult if you aren't prepared properly for them.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
Let's see, pick any MMO out there, count the dungeon availability and variety. Especially at release. WoW had less than a dozen at release. Even now they only have about 60ish unique dungeons in the game with all their expansions.

Um off the top of my head WoW had,
Ragefire caverns, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Stockades, Blackfathom Deeps, Shadowfang Keep, Gnomeregon, four wings of Scarlet Monestary, Razorfen Kraul, Razorfen Downs, Zul'Farrak, Uldaman, Sunken Temple, Blackrock Depths, Stratholme, Scholomance, lower blackrock spire.

That's 17 not including the fact that many were so large most people only did sections of them at a time (living/undead strath, strict parts of blackrock, etc). Then shortly after release the three winged Maraudon was released, and shortly after that the four winged Diremaul was released.
 

CrowDog

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2001
1,709
8
81
So after you hit VR ranks whats the best way to level skills? I hit VR1 last night and respecced to try some new skills and they don't seem to gain xp. My fear is that respeccing after VR ranks is a bad idea...
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,761
777
126
Now there is plenty to complain about with ESO.

Crap ton of bugged quests. Most of which has known about for ages. They are working through them faster now since launch than they ever did in beta.

Phasing and syncing problems plague this game. Makes grouping for most quests damn near impossible. Also is the root problem for most of the bugged quests in the first place.

Stupid exploits left in the game at launch. It was like they didn't learn a damn thing for the glut of MMOs released previously that had almost the exact same problems in terms of exploits.

Horrible game mechanics in dealing with bots, gold farmers, and gold spammers. Again, they didn't learn jack shit about how other games have dealt successfully with those issues.

Broken pvp balance. None of the high level PVP was tested, nor the werewolf/vamp skills tested for shit. Of course they all come out broke in some form or another.

Lack of mob variety. There are 24 monster types in the game. That's it. The mob variety, specifically the lack of, is appalling.

Lack of voice acting. I rather have hundreds of no-name voice actors than the same repeated dozen a-list voice actors reused everywhere in the game.

This one is an Elder Scrolls special. Hire 6 voice actors and have them play 200 characters each :awe:
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
So after you hit VR ranks whats the best way to level skills? I hit VR1 last night and respecced to try some new skills and they don't seem to gain xp. My fear is that respeccing after VR ranks is a bad idea...

Get XP while having them on your skill bar. I didnt feel its a problem, I am VR10 and I am getting some alliance skills up. With quests it goes extra fast tho.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
Um off the top of my head WoW had,
Ragefire caverns, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Stockades, Blackfathom Deeps, Shadowfang Keep, Gnomeregon, four wings of Scarlet Monestary, Razorfen Kraul, Razorfen Downs, Zul'Farrak, Uldaman, Sunken Temple, Blackrock Depths, Stratholme, Scholomance, lower blackrock spire.

That's 17 not including the fact that many were so large most people only did sections of them at a time (living/undead strath, strict parts of blackrock, etc). Then shortly after release the three winged Maraudon was released, and shortly after that the four winged Diremaul was released.

WoW at release was only...

Ragefire Chasm, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Shadowfang Keep, Blackfathom Deeps, The Stockade, Gnomeregan, Scarlet Monastery, Razorfen Kraul, Uldaman, Scholomance, Razorfen Downs, Stratholme, Zul'Farrak, Temple of Atal'Hakkar, Blackrock Depths

40 man raids came in a few months. That is only 16. Not exactly comparable to the 42 (18 normal and 6 veteran versions) private dungeons that ESO had at release. Also that doesn't compare to the "public" hole in the wall dungeons, although there are a few much larger ones of those that are unique like The Vile Manse and others. Over all there is closer to 60 unique dungeons layout available ranging from very small to very large at release for ESO. WoW was paltry in comparison
 
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AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
WoW at release was only...

Ragefire Chasm, Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Shadowfang Keep, Blackfathom Deeps, The Stockade, Gnomeregan, Scarlet Monastery, Razorfen Kraul, Uldaman, Scholomance, Razorfen Downs, Stratholme, Zul'Farrak, Temple of Atal'Hakkar, Blackrock Depths

40 man raids came in a few months. That is only 16. Not exactly comparable to the 42 (18 normal and 6 veteran versions) private dungeons that ESO had at release. Also that doesn't compare to the "public" hole in the wall dungeons, although there are a few much larger ones of those that are unique like The Vile Manse and others. Over all there is closer to 60 unique dungeons layout available ranging from very small to very large at release for ESO. WoW was paltry in comparison

LBRS was 5 man and in at the start. Also, Upper Black Rock Spire (a 10 man) Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair were all in at the very start. I don't have experience with ESO, but it sounds like you're having to rely on copy pasting to get to the numbers you're looking at. All the WoW dungeons were very unique experiences. The different sections of the bigger ones could almost be considered dungeons of their own and in fact where often done on their own.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,667
440
126
LBRS was 5 man and in at the start. Also, Upper Black Rock Spire (a 10 man) Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair were all in at the very start. I don't have experience with ESO, but it sounds like you're having to rely on copy pasting to get to the numbers you're looking at. All the WoW dungeons were very unique experiences. The different sections of the bigger ones could almost be considered dungeons of their own and in fact where often done on their own.

They were not at release. They were released very shortly after launch, but you could not get into them on Nov 23rd, 2004 even if you were the proper level. The attunement quest wasn't even in the game at release for Molten Core. But it was rectified very shortly after launch. Still, already TESO is releasing new dungeons and content as well. No, I am not talking about additional copied dungeons. I'm talking about unique dungeon layouts. ESO at launch has had far more unique dungeons, both private and public, than there has been in MMO to date at launch. The fact that there are another 60+ public "dungeons" that are similar layout doesn't detract from the ton of unique dungeons there are in the game.
 
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