Elder Scrolls Online release date 4-4-14

[shadow9d9]

I only had a very quick look at ESO when my wife d/led the last beta...so I really only had a chance to look at it for 2 mins or so...mind you: LOOK at it, I didn't play.

The point is that they want $15ish per month and I think that THIS will be the major criteria for the game. (Make no mistake, we both also played WoW religiously before it got bad..but then we knew WHY we spend this amount every month).

For example, right now we both play The Secret World which cost a one-time fee for me $15 from a CD store online and the key for my wife even less, $12....a ONE TIME payment for an otherwise excellent MMORPG with finally some new ideas.

The question is...can ESO online justify such an amount PER MONTH..eg. will it be so grand and SOOOO fantastic that it would be at least "as good" as WoW so that people will happily pay...in a game genre which otherwise had been pretty much done to death already...this is MY question. Can ESO really deliver such an experience which would justify spending the amount for a game like TSW...each and every month?

Now..this is not only my own view (not that I personally see $15 as an issue) but has already been pointed out in many other reviews/previews. There is a reason why SWTOR and many other MMORPGs went F2P....simply because people today are NOT willing to spend $15 so easily as back in the times where WoW was the newest and coolest thing.

Furthermore, I personally expect certain things from an MMORPG...for instance the social component etc. for an MMORPg is very important to me. (Duh, because otherwise I wouldn't play a MMORPg but a single-player game!), also things like PvP and all THOSE things where I really see the benefit of being in an MMORPG. Whether ESO can satisfy that I don't know. All I know is that a MMORPG which in essence is a single-player game and which WOULD lack in the fundamental things which make a MMORPG good is pointless. (Simply "many people able to play at the same time" doesn't make a MMORPG...it would then only be a software piracy protection for a game in disguise).

Obviously, since I never played ESO I can't say anything about how it will be in regards to its MMORPG aspect...but as I told my wife: "I don't need a MMORPG or a monthly subscription for a game where I may end up farming mushrooms for hours and hours"

The Secret World is a super tiny, 8 mostly disconnected zoned game, that can be maxed in 2 weekends of playing. It definitely shouldn't have a monthly payment.

TOR went away from subscription because the sub wasn't worth it. It has nothing to do with anything else. The game was a solo funneled experience through mini zoned worlds.

The reason subbed games don't last nowadays has NOTHING to do with the payment form and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that everything is a copy of wow.. over and over and over. People are sick of it. Stop making tiny, zoned worlds with artificial borders everywhere, with characters that can jump an inch into the air, a max level that you can hit in five minutes, just to repeat 5 dungeons over and over to get better gear to do those same five dungeons over and over. Wow has convinced players and companies that this joke of a formula is viable in the long term. It boggles my mind how anyone could stand the monotony of wow long enough to subscribe past that first 3 months and then one month per expansion.

 

[shadow9d9]

It's not BAD, it' s just nothing new.

I feel like I'm playing a good MMO from 2007

2004.

 

[HumblePie]

It's not BAD, it' s just nothing new.

I feel like I'm playing a good MMO from 2007

Welcome to MMOs since there have been MUDs. There is only so many ways you can present a role playing game. The only true freedom would be pencil and paper, but even those have "rules" but they can at least be somewhat thrown out by the participants if they feel the need or changed.

When you are playing something that is a bit more confined in scope, you have less flexibility. Be that a card game, board game, or video game.

Gameplay mechanics for video games won't change very much for pretty much ever. There will be tweaks on end to exiting game play mechanics for any game genre. But radically new game play concepts or genres? No way. Unless you want to do really odd ball things like join that online pokemon social experiment crap where millions of people are all trying to control one instance of a single player game at the same time.

So all you get is different "window" dressings for the same thing. If ESO doesn't feel like a "fresh" enough of a window dressing change to you, then you are going to be disappointed with MMOs for years to come. Might be better to take a few years break on MMOs and do other things.

 

[HumblePie]

The Secret World is a super tiny, 8 mostly disconnected zoned game, that can be maxed in 2 weekends of playing. It definitely shouldn't have a monthly payment.

TOR went away from subscription because the sub wasn't worth it. It has nothing to do with anything else. The game was a solo funneled experience through mini zoned worlds.

The reason subbed games don't last nowadays has NOTHING to do with the payment form and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that everything is a copy of wow.. over and over and over. People are sick of it. Stop making tiny, zoned worlds with artificial borders everywhere, with characters that can jump an inch into the air, a max level that you can hit in five minutes, just to repeat 5 dungeons over and over to get better gear to do those same five dungeons over and over. Wow has convinced players and companies that this joke of a formula is viable in the long term. It boggles my mind how anyone could stand the monotony of wow long enough to subscribe past that first 3 months and then one month per expansion.

Uh, and some people still love playing tetris. I personally play a crap ton of Sudoku all the time. Usually complete at a minimum of 6 games a day. I do this every day and have for years. The game doesn't change. The challenge really doesn't change. But it's the thrill of solving something and making an accomplishment. It's the same reason play chess or any board game more than once. It's not like the board games or card games change really. WoW is the same concept. Once you get past the initial "rpg" aspect of going through the various leveling content and stories, the "high" level content is nothing more than puzzle solving over and over. Of course it's a cooperative puzzle solving measure. That social aspect is what keeps people wanting to solve that puzzle over and over. The puzzle is "beating" a specific high level content over and over. Some people get bored over that. Some people don't. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on this planet have a highly repetitive "hobby" they like to do. Be that fishing, making things, working on a cars, reading the same derivative work novels, playing games, or even posting on sites like this one. EVERYTHING is a repetitive derivative of something else. Everyone picks something that they get their jollies to and goes at it. Quite a few people like to rotate through various different "hobbies" for recreation and some don't.

 

[Markbnj]

The Secret World is a super tiny, 8 mostly disconnected zoned game, that can be maxed in 2 weekends of playing. It definitely shouldn't have a monthly payment.

Ha, that's about exactly how much fun I got out of it. I just don't like Funcom's engine, I guess. Everything is a little zone, connected to a hub. It's pretty and all, and the gameplay and environment were unique and interesting for a little bit, but that's about all. The main hubs themselves are really underwhelming. London is maybe the most interesting, followed by Seoul, while NYC is a bag of fail.

 

[shadow9d9]

Uh, and some people still love playing tetris. I personally play a crap ton of Sudoku all the time. Usually complete at a minimum of 6 games a day. I do this every day and have for years. The game doesn't change. The challenge really doesn't change. But it's the thrill of solving something and making an accomplishment. It's the same reason play chess or any board game more than once. It's not like the board games or card games change really. WoW is the same concept. Once you get past the initial "rpg" aspect of going through the various leveling content and stories, the "high" level content is nothing more than puzzle solving over and over. Of course it's a cooperative puzzle solving measure. That social aspect is what keeps people wanting to solve that puzzle over and over. The puzzle is "beating" a specific high level content over and over. Some people get bored over that. Some people don't. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on this planet have a highly repetitive "hobby" they like to do. Be that fishing, making things, working on a cars, reading the same derivative work novels, playing games, or even posting on sites like this one. EVERYTHING is a repetitive derivative of something else. Everyone picks something that they get their jollies to and goes at it. Quite a few people like to rotate through various different "hobbies" for recreation and some don't.

There are multiple types of repetitive. There is exploring a vast world and killing the same enemies repetitive and there is literally 5 tiny dungeons with the exact same layout and NO variance whatsoever repetitive. Is this worth $15 a month? That is the question.

 

[shadow9d9]

Ha, that's about exactly how much fun I got out of it. I just don't like Funcom's engine, I guess. Everything is a little zone, connected to a hub. It's pretty and all, and the gameplay and environment were unique and interesting for a little bit, but that's about all. The main hubs themselves are really underwhelming. London is maybe the most interesting, followed by Seoul, while NYC is a bag of fail.

I loved the first zone and the atmosphere, but it is more like a coop min rpg than anything more.

 

[shadow9d9]

Welcome to MMOs since there have been MUDs. There is only so many ways you can present a role playing game. The only true freedom would be pencil and paper, but even those have "rules" but they can at least be somewhat thrown out by the participants if they feel the need or changed.

When you are playing something that is a bit more confined in scope, you have less flexibility. Be that a card game, board game, or video game.

Gameplay mechanics for video games won't change very much for pretty much ever. There will be tweaks on end to exiting game play mechanics for any game genre. But radically new game play concepts or genres? No way. Unless you want to do really odd ball things like join that online pokemon social experiment crap where millions of people are all trying to control one instance of a single player game at the same time.

So all you get is different "window" dressings for the same thing. If ESO doesn't feel like a "fresh" enough of a window dressing change to you, then you are going to be disappointed with MMOs for years to come. Might be better to take a few years break on MMOs and do other things.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Since WoW and its army of clones have dominated, you've been convinced that this is the only way of things. It isn't.

Asheron's Call, for example, had a world 1000x larger than WoW, with completely customizeable characters, ability to run and jump anywhere(no artificial barriers), free monthly content and entire landscape changes(towns destroyed, weather changes, dungeons), a level cap that took years upon years to hit, a skill based pvp system, where a level 30 can kill a 50, for example), a death system that actually gave a penalty that you had to work off(no xp loss), etc etc etc.

Things don't have to be in tiny zoned, artificially bordered worlds, that you can max in five minutes, just to repeat 5 dungeons over and over, with a pvp system based on gear.

 

[HumblePie]

There are multiple types of repetitive. There is exploring a vast world and killing the same enemies repetitive and there is literally 5 tiny dungeons with the exact same layout and NO variance whatsoever repetitive. Is this worth $15 a month? That is the question.

Is TSO worth a $15 sub? No, since they are pretty damn slow at releasing more window dressing(s) to their game. IE what some would call "content" I call window dressing. A few more quests are basically all they add as well as achievement challenges. They did add a few set of new powers once. No major dungeon, story line updates, or whole zones. So is it worth a $15 sub? Nope. Considering what other games give for their sub in changes to the game over time.

ESO, we'll have to see. Some games make lots of changes constantly for the money, ie games like Asheron's Call, which did very well because of it. Other games just suck it all up and do massive changes ala "expansions" with EQ or WoW style. Others don't do squat in terms of window dressing, and just spend endless dev hours chasing down massive bugs, exploits, and balancing issues which should have mostly all been hammered out before release. The later games tend to flop.

 

[Daverino]

Sorry, but you are wrong. Since WoW and its army of clones have dominated, you've been convinced that this is the only way of things. It isn't.

Asheron's Call, for example, had a world 1000x larger than WoW, with completely customizeable characters, ability to run and jump anywhere(no artificial barriers), free monthly content and entire landscape changes(towns destroyed, weather changes, dungeons), a level cap that took years upon years to hit, a skill based pvp system, where a level 30 can kill a 50, for example), a death system that actually gave a penalty that you had to work off(no xp loss), etc etc etc.

Things don't have to be in tiny zoned, artificially bordered worlds, that you can max in five minutes, just to repeat 5 dungeons over and over, with a pvp system based on gear.

Man, ain't that for real. I played Asheron's Call for a few years and still hadn't touched most of the content. Anarchy Online was even better. The area was massive, updates were constant and it had the best twinking system ever. I still remember the first time someone managed to get a Slayer into ToTW in Anarchy Online.

 

[HumblePie]

Sorry, but you are wrong. Since WoW and its army of clones have dominated, you've been convinced that this is the only way of things. It isn't.

Asheron's Call, for example, had a world 1000x larger than WoW, with completely customizeable characters, ability to run and jump anywhere(no artificial barriers), free monthly content and entire landscape changes(towns destroyed, weather changes, dungeons), a level cap that took years upon years to hit, a skill based pvp system, where a level 30 can kill a 50, for example), a death system that actually gave a penalty that you had to work off(no xp loss), etc etc etc.

Things don't have to be in tiny zoned, artificially bordered worlds, that you can max in five minutes, just to repeat 5 dungeons over and over, with a pvp system based on gear.

Uhh, games have been the same for a long time. Especially "role" playing games. What new do MMORPGs offer over something like D&D in the past beyond connecting a whole lot of people at once to the same play experience at the same time? Answer: Nothing. At least not in the game play mechanics. You play a "character" that progresses to get more powerful to do more stuff that wasn't exactly available to do at "lower" levels, but in reality is just the same stuff you did at lower levels with window dressing. When you think about it, how is it any different in terms of game play mechanics for an RPG avatar to kill a poodle with a fork or a demi-god with the golden sword of mickey mouse? There seriously isn't a difference. It's just that people get a better feeling of accomplishment when they have to roll the dice 500 times versus once. Or in the case of a video game, hit 25+ button to take down that demi god versus 1 for a mole. It's all amounts to the same fucking thing when you take a look at it objectively.

It's that D&D peen, lately known as epeen, status that is what makes people play the game. People like to show off to others what they feel they have accomplished more than what someone else may have. It's the ability to gloat. It's what makes us human. That need to elitism. To feel we have something better in our lives versus others. Sorry for the philosophical digression here, but to have a serious conversation about this sort of stuff requires knowledge of basic human nature.

WoW wasn't ground breaking or even changed the model of the carrot & stick style of gaming with relatively few carrots to fight over. It's basic human nature to fight over resources and feel better when we "win" that fight compared to others. Be it the person on Wallstreet that is raking in millions a year over others, or the soccer mom at home finding that awesome sale deal on the latest handbag. It's that drive to fight over resources and "win" which is the basic mechanic to ALL these games. Has been for a very long time.

Nothing is a WoW clone, because Wow IS a clone to what is came before. A game that exploits basic human needs to feel accomplishment over peers. It does so in the "rpg" way which has had it's basic mechanics around for a very long time.

If you can't understand this, it's above your pay grade.


Now if you want to argue that games after WoW have been small in scale, content, and aren't worth playing because of those reasons. That's a different argument. Arguing that game models all suck because they are all WoW clones is a naive argument at best.

 

[shadow9d9]

Uhh, games have been the same for a long time. Especially "role" playing games. What new do MMORPGs offer over something like D&D in the past beyond connecting a whole lot of people at once to the same play experience at the same time? Answer: Nothing. At least not in the game play mechanics. You play a "character" that progresses to get more powerful to do more stuff that wasn't exactly available to do at "lower" levels, but in reality is just the same stuff you did at lower levels with window dressing. When you think about it, how is it any different in terms of game play mechanics for an RPG avatar to kill a poodle with a fork or a demi-god with the golden sword of mickey mouse? There seriously isn't a difference. It's just that people get a better feeling of accomplishment when they have to roll the dice 500 times versus once. Or in the case of a video game, hit 25+ button to take down that demi god versus 1 for a mole. It's all amounts to the same fucking thing when you take a look at it objectively.

It's that D&D peen, lately known as epeen, status that is what makes people play the game. People like to show off to others what they feel they have accomplished more than what someone else may have. It's the ability to gloat. It's what makes us human. That need to elitism. To feel we have something better in our lives versus others. Sorry for the philosophical digression here, but to have a serious conversation about this sort of stuff requires knowledge of basic human nature.

WoW wasn't ground breaking or even changed the model of the carrot & stick style of gaming with relatively few carrots to fight over. It's basic human nature to fight over resources and feel better when we "win" that fight compared to others. Be it the person on Wallstreet that is raking in millions a year over others, or the soccer mom at home finding that awesome sale deal on the latest handbag. It's that drive to fight over resources and "win" which is the basic mechanic to ALL these games. Has been for a very long time.

Nothing is a WoW clone, because Wow IS a clone to what is came before. A game that exploits basic human needs to feel accomplishment over peers. It does so in the "rpg" way which has had it's basic mechanics around for a very long time.

If you can't understand this, it's above your pay grade.


Now if you want to argue that games after WoW have been small in scale, content, and aren't worth playing because of those reasons. That's a different argument. Arguing that game models all suck because they are all WoW clones is a naive argument at best.

You just made up your own argument to argue against and didn't bother addressing what I said at all.

 

[BrightCandle]

From the moment I read about this game I kind of knew it was going to be a failure. It always starts the same way with an MMORPG, they start telling you about how the world is based on this incredible lore and has this lovely story. What that really says is we just built a carbon copy of another games mechanics and we just changed the story and the artwork. Give us your money.

I just don't think that approach allows you to charge a lot of money anymore, we want genuine innovation in the combat mechanics and until that actually happens I doubt an MMORPG will get to demand a sub again.

 

[shadow9d9]

From the moment I read about this game I kind of knew it was going to be a failure. It always starts the same way with an MMORPG, they start telling you about how the world is based on this incredible lore and has this lovely story. What that really says is we just built a carbon copy of another games mechanics and we just changed the story and the artwork. Give us your money.

I just don't think that approach allows you to charge a lot of money anymore, we want genuine innovation in the combat mechanics and until that actually happens I doubt an MMORPG will get to demand a sub again.

Also, this is the studio's first game.. not a great sign imo... Make a new development house to build a wow clone, with no particular expertise in the genre, by a company that has only made single player rpgs...


Combat mechanics aren't the problem though. The problem is making tiny worlds with quest hubs that take 5 minutes to hit the cap, just to repeat 5 dungeons for gear. People are bored of that and have been for years. New combat wouldn't change that tired formula one bit.

 

[BoberFett]

The reason subbed games don't last nowadays has NOTHING to do with the payment form and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that everything is a copy of wow.. over and over and over. People are sick of it. Stop making tiny, zoned worlds with artificial borders everywhere, with characters that can jump an inch into the air, a max level that you can hit in five minutes, just to repeat 5 dungeons over and over to get better gear to do those same five dungeons over and over. Wow has convinced players and companies that this joke of a formula is viable in the long term. It boggles my mind how anyone could stand the monotony of wow long enough to subscribe past that first 3 months and then one month per expansion.

WoW has 5 dungeons and invisible walls? You can fly almost anywhere, only major continents are walled, but within those you can go just about anywhere you please.

Edit: Saw your later comment about Aheron's Call. Never played it myself, but I know there were rabid fans. The giant sandbox world has been tried elsewhere and failed. EVE is the closest thing nowadays.

 

[shadow9d9]

WoW has 5 dungeons and invisible walls? You can fly almost anywhere, only major continents are walled, but within those you can go just about anywhere you please.

Edit: Saw your later comment about Aheron's Call. Never played it myself, but I know there were rabid fans. The giant sandbox world has been tried elsewhere and failed. EVE is the closest thing nowadays.

I don't like labels like "sandbox," and I don't even know if I would call AC a sandbox... but that subgenre really hasn't been tried whatsoever by any decent sized development team.

Forget the flying, which isn't really part of the gameplay. Try running around. You move at a snail's pace, jump an inch high, and are funneled through the tiny zones. The game is completely closed off and you are forced along paths.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't like labels like "sandbox," and I don't even know if I would call AC a sandbox... but that subgenre really hasn't been tried whatsoever by any decent sized development team.

Forget the flying, which isn't really part of the gameplay. Try running around. You move at a snail's pace, jump an inch high, and are funneled through the tiny zones. The game is completely closed off and you are forced along paths.

And who cares? It's still content. In AC, you still had massive camping spots that people would go to. Most of the world was wide open, but there wasn't much to do in it in many places.

I made no argument against myself. I stated that all genres of games are bound by certain rules. Some because the game designers chose it, and others because of technology constraints at the time.

What I was arguing was the philosophical nature of games in general. Something you failed to understand. Hence, above your pay grade. Instead of trying to understand, you just went dismissive instead as if that sour grapes attitude voids any of my points. It doesn't. Just because you lack understanding doesn't refute anything I wrote.

I will try one more time to simplify it. Claiming ESO is a derivative is stupid. ALL games are derivative. Nothing is new under the sun. Some ideas and implementations are better for some people's enjoyment versus others. There will never be a one perfect game for everyone, let alone for any one person. They will all ever be nothing but a derivative.

You play a game because you like the current derivative mechanics and the current derivative story line that are woven together in a way you find suitable enough for you.

Arguments about specific choices in game design is one thing. Those are relevant to the game. Claims of things like not liking how the crafting system works, or bugs in the quest lines, or movement mechanics is one thing. Those are subjective, even over objective matters, findings of inadequacies about a game. Even good direct comparisons to specific examples between games is fine. Wide sweeping arguments of a dismissive nature are just childish remarks. Just saying, "ESO is a WoW clone and therefor sucks" is nothing but a childish argument comment to make. It only shows a limited level of intelligence. And it's a wholly stupid remark to make as a criticism in light of what I posted earlier. In that everything is a derivative. Which means everything would technically ever be a WoW clone. Which in turn means nothing would ever be good enough for you. So I would then suggest either changing your argument or not playing games like this ever again.

 

[NoSoup4You]

Repetitive content isn't a problem as long as it's fun to do and has worthwhile rewards. Everything in an MMO becomes repetitive eventually, and even if you offer a bunch of different dungeons the player base will just gravitate towards the easiest ones with the best "time to reward efficiency" and ignore the other harder/longer dungeons.

Guild Wars 2 has a total of 25 different dungeon paths, but only maybe eight of those are run with any regularity because players just want to get in and get out. So despite offering plenty of variety, the players choose repetition instead.

I'd never played an MMO until I bought Guild Wars 2 at launch, and I learned pretty quickly that MMO players don't know what they want. They ask for one thing but they do the opposite. I'm a little jaded I guess by the GW2 experience, maybe other MMO's are different. I doubt it though.

 

[shadow9d9]

And who cares? It's still content. In AC, you still had massive camping spots that people would go to. Most of the world was wide open, but there wasn't much to do in it in many places.

I made no argument against myself. I stated that all genres of games are bound by certain rules. Some because the game designers chose it, and others because of technology constraints at the time.

What I was arguing was the philosophical nature of games in general. Something you failed to understand. Hence, above your pay grade. Instead of trying to understand, you just went dismissive instead as if that sour grapes attitude voids any of my points. It doesn't. Just because you lack understanding doesn't refute anything I wrote.

I will try one more time to simplify it. Claiming ESO is a derivative is stupid. ALL games are derivative. Nothing is new under the sun. Some ideas and implementations are better for some people's enjoyment versus others. There will never be a one perfect game for everyone, let alone for any one person. They will all ever be nothing but a derivative.

You play a game because you like the current derivative mechanics and the current derivative story line that are woven together in a way you find suitable enough for you.

Arguments about specific choices in game design is one thing. Those are relevant to the game. Claims of things like not liking how the crafting system works, or bugs in the quest lines, or movement mechanics is one thing. Those are subjective, even over objective matters, findings of inadequacies about a game. Even good direct comparisons to specific examples between games is fine. Wide sweeping arguments of a dismissive nature are just childish remarks. Just saying, "ESO is a WoW clone and therefor sucks" is nothing but a childish argument comment to make. It only shows a limited level of intelligence. And it's a wholly stupid remark to make as a criticism in light of what I posted earlier. In that everything is a derivative. Which means everything would technically ever be a WoW clone. Which in turn means nothing would ever be good enough for you. So I would then suggest either changing your argument or not playing games like this ever again.

You think highly of yourself, just like every other internet tough guy wannabe. Your "arguments" were just mindless rambling that had nothing to do with what you were responding to and I called you out on it.

Asheron's Call not only had 10000x the size of the wow clones, but it had monthly content added every month. You could explore the world and there were tons upon tons of things to do, and meaningful and skill based pvp.

Pointing out that wow clones are all that come out nowadays is a valid argument. YOU may not like it... but then again, you think that you are superior to everyone on the internet... so I will just leave you with your delusions of grandeur.

If you need to tout your supposed "intelligence" and your superiority on the internet... maybe, JUST maybe, you have major, major issues that you need to have dealt with and maybe you aren't as intelligent and superior to others as you may like to think. Arguments get infinitely weaker the more you need to repeat how amazing YOU think you are... Seriously, take a look at how desperate it makes you look. Smart people don't need to keep repeating how smart they think they are. Only those with self esteem issues and poor arguments do.

 

[Markbnj]

Well, I don't know if respecting the NDA is even relevant anymore, given that they invited half the world in this weekend, but I'm old-fashioned that way so I will just say that from my perspective this session has not gone well, at all. If this game is ready in a month I will be surprised.

The other thing I'll say is that I so wanted to be a fanboi for this game, if for no other reason than that I am an ES fan _and_ a former DAoC addict. I finally got out to the PVP zones last night... and this morning I had to go check my history on Wikipedia. Matt Firor... DAoC executive producer... Trials of Atlantis. Oh right, now I remember.

 

[shadow9d9]

Well, I don't know if respecting the NDA is even relevant anymore, given that they invited half the world in this weekend, but I'm old-fashioned that way so I will just say that from my perspective this session has not gone well, at all. If this game is ready in a month I will be surprised.

The other thing I'll say is that I so wanted to be a fanboi for this game, if for no other reason than that I am an ES fan _and_ a former DAoC addict. I finally got out to the PVP zones last night... and this morning I had to go check my history on Wikipedia. Matt Firor... DAoC executive producer... Trials of Atlantis. Oh right, now I remember.

NDA is lifted.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/15/elder-scrolls-online-lifts-its-nda-for-everyone/

 

[Markbnj]

NDA is lifted.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/15/elder-scrolls-online-lifts-its-nda-for-everyone/

Ah, didn't know that. Not surprising. Well, in that case I might have more to say later. I've been in four or five beta sessions so far and I really thought some of the main issues would be improved this week, but I can't say it played that way for me. Lots of bugged quests, including the main story quest, really long load times between zones which, because of their engine design, means pretty much every time you enter or exit a building or dungeon, login server failures, etc.

None of which would be remarkable for a beta, but with the game a month out from scheduled release I was expecting a smoother experience.

 

[hardhat]

I'll give my impression. I participated in two beta sessions and opted out of the others. I made it to level 9. I found the gameplay incredibly boring. The combat was absolutely horrible. Having a very simple selection of options, featuring no timing whatsoever, having hit or miss controlled by the game instead of player skill, having basically no depth in terms of understanding game mechanics to perform better made the whole thing boring. The items and equipment were similarly boring, and only weapons seemed to make any difference in terms of experience. Type of armor didn't matter at all. There was a very limited selection. There was next to no customization.

This isn't even a good (though incredibly dumbed down) elder scrolls experience. The gameplay worlds felt nothing like TES games. Playing Skyrim and seeing such a beautiful world with amazing mountains and changes in terrain draws you in and makes you want to explore. ESO felt very generic with next to no difference in terrain, boring dungeon design, towns that mostly featured the same style, etc. They didn't even include basic immersion builders like water walking or mark/recall from what I saw.

The quests were so bad it was painful. People talk about having good experiences on quests in this game and I feel like I'm going to pull my hair out. The dialogue is horrible, so you abandon listening to anyone talk and just follow the compass from place to place. How is that a good experience? I did one quest where I had to follow something or other through the harbor area. There was no thought involved. The solution to the quest didn't involve looking for clues and discovering a story, it involved going from map marker to map marker. Not to mention that there are so many people doing the same quests that often the situation around you makes no sense in terms of your quest progress. I did one of the mage guild quests and discovered that I couldn't even hurt the dremora that spawned during the mission. He was completely immune to my attacks. Why didn't the game tell me that I couldn't hurt him with fire attacks BEFORE sending me on a mission that I couldn't complete?

There is also no sense of progression. Leveling was painfully slow when I tested, and most people had maybe one equipment upgrade from the time when they left the dungeon. Money is very rare and relatively useless. The vendor system is so much worse than Skyrim it's amazing. Finding chests and trying to unlock them is an exercise in frustration because even the very easy chests has a very short timer and the tutorial was one screen that bugged and disappeared before I could read it-and lockpicks were very expensive (and locations where you can find them in the world weren't instanced, so you had to wait until the contents respawned in hopes of getting one). Guild progress was meaningless. Do you remember all of the cool spells you discovered when you joined the mage's guild for the first time in Morrowind? There's nothing like that here. You just get a few more skills you advance through leveling up-the same as staffs-the same as swords-the same as bows-the same as race skills-etc. People also didn't respond to your progress through dialogue, with no difference in the world. Guilds are just another generic quest line in this game.

The world itself has above average graphics for an MMO, and the sound is ok. If you actually enjoy the combat and quests, and don't know how horribly simple it is in comparison to other elder scrolls games, then it could be an ok game. But that's a big if. Tack on the monthly fee, in app purchases, and horrible preorder bonuses and this gets an F from me.

 

[Wuzup101]

After playing in most of the betas, I don't think I'm going to shell out the money for the game + monthly sub. I'm sure there are plenty of TES fans that will happily purchase it in order to see the story (and plenty that won't simply because it's an MMO). I see it going free to play within 6 months... maybe a year tops.

The world / graphics are above average, but some of the character models and movement are seriously messed up. Some animations are good... some are horrible... I personally think the music / sound is great. That being said, I know everyone complains about endless kill 10 of these 10 of those quests... but my god... I felt like there weren't any mobs to kill at all. You know what is even more annoying than the "kill x quest"... the "run 5 minutes over there and [read a book, talk to X, pick up item Y]" quests. That it seems to have a plenty.

For a game that launches in mid April, there are WAY too many bugs right now to believe that a sufficient portion of them are going to be solved. I mean I can understand getting stuck in some areas and what not, but how do you leave the main story quests bug out across several months of betas?

For me it doesn't come down to lack of innovation. I like the "holy trinity" and I don't mind "grinding." The game is just boring and somewhat broken at this stage in the game.

I did think the leveling / skill system was pretty cool though.

 

[Dahak]

Ah, didn't know that. Not surprising. Well, in that case I might have more to say later. I've been in four or five beta sessions so far and I really thought some of the main issues would be improved this week, but I can't say it played that way for me. Lots of bugged quests, including the main story quest, really long load times between zones which, because of their engine design, means pretty much every time you enter or exit a building or dungeon, login server failures, etc.

None of which would be remarkable for a beta, but with the game a month out from scheduled release I was expecting a smoother experience.

Well this build is the same that was used for the last beta weekend so a lot of those bugs would still be there as this was more for stressing the system again.
And apparently there is a build or two newer that is on the PTS that supposedly has lot of fixes

Personally I have been on the fence as well for weather to get it or not and about the only thing in the pre-order that I would like is the imperial race. But I see my self most likely getting bored with it as well, just nothing that really grabs me.

Personally I did not experience to many issues with load or logins the one or two times it was like a 15 min wait vs the last time where it was upto an hour or so
But when trying PVP in 3 different times could barely play with the lag. I suppose that was part of the plan but was really hard to get into it

The world / graphics are above average, but some of the character models and movement are seriously messed up. Some animations are good... some are horrible... I personally think the music / sound is great. That being said, I know everyone complains about endless kill 10 of these 10 of those quests... but my god... I felt like there weren't any mobs to kill at all. You know what is even more annoying than the "kill x quest"... the "run 5 minutes over there and [read a book, talk to X, pick up item Y]" quests. That it seems to have a plenty.

Yeah, it is hard to do a mmo with out the basic fetch quests but so far there seem to be a nice balance of the kill x#times or save #y and other style quests

For a game that launches in mid April, there are WAY too many bugs right now to believe that a sufficient portion of them are going to be solved. I mean I can understand getting stuck in some areas and what not, but how do you leave the main story quests bug out across several months of betas?

Well a lot of the main quest and the faction quests where locked out of the beta so you could not go to far in them basically you get the intro quest and 1 more and that was about it.

For me it doesn't come down to lack of innovation. I like the "holy trinity" and I don't mind "grinding." The game is just boring and somewhat broken at this stage in the game.

I did think the leveling / skill system was pretty cool though.

The classes / leveling for me seem to be ok, the base of the holy trinity is there but you can branch out more and once you hit lvl 15 and get the weapon swap I can see alot of hybrid builds whether this is a good thing or not hard to say