Effort to declare Palestinian State as close as two weeks

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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I already told you I don't favor Hamas, but like every group, they can claim to lead the "people", but when they have insufficient followers, they can no longer claim to lead. As for Hamas its a Jonney come lately group, that only came to power in the last six years, or less than 10% of Israeli history as a State.
the length of time does not matter, it is the damage that they have done to the Palestinian people of Gaza that counts. They were a spin off of Arafat's group that were wanting to be more militant.
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As for its sister group Hezbollah it didn't exists until Israel tried a brutal occupation of Lebanon, and Hezbollah gained its power by providing the social services to the Lebanese people Israel should have.
Why is this Israel's responsibility and not that of the Lebanese government?
Israel did not occupy Lebanon except to remove the PLO that Lebanon allowed to take root in or to protect a group of people that were allied with Israel and in the process of becoming slaughtered.

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As for Israel, its leadership is in a state of flux also, but its Bozo Netanyahu and his settler parties that are scaring the hell of more rational Israelis. As a tiny minority of settler party crazies tell the whole wide world the bible is their license to steal.
What was the license to steal back in '48 that the Arabs were operating under.
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Most Israelis don't back the settler parties, and would rather see a peaceful resolution. But Netanyahu is between a rock and a hard place, because if he defies the settler party greed, his coalition government will fall, setting up Israel for new elections. And even if settler parties win the election they would be much like pre WW2 nations like Italy Japan, and Germany, who also proclaimed their license to steal, and instead found that license quite forcefully revoked.

And basically that is what we have in this link, is the whole wide world a fixing to get together and tell delusional settler parties that the bible gives them no such rights. Then Matt1970, who are then going to believe, billions of rational Christians, Muslims, and millions of Jews too, or just a few hundred thousand Israeli settler kooks.

As for Hamas, once a deal with Israel happens, the people of Gaza are likely to rejoin Fatah.
Why did they elect Hamas in the first place. They were military opposing Israel. Fatah is not.
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And then if a few remaining 100 Hamas idiots want to start a jihad, they can't do much damage before they die for their God.
Those few, as you want to think, were the ones that triggered Cast Lead. What will stop them again.
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As for me, I would rather later see Hamas as only some brief footnote in a history book, a terrorist group that only compiled a brief six year history before becoming obsolete.

Dream on. Hamas is a byproduct of the Arab ego. As long as Israel exists, Hamas or equivalent will be there. It will be up to the Palestinian people to actually root them all out and keep them under control.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I can't believe how self delusional you, Common Courtesy, are from the beginning to the end of this post.

Face the facts, a government exists to serve their people, and if the government fails to serve the people, they will get replaced.

What we have in Israel, is the same we have in the West Bank and Gaza. We have governments that claim to represent the people, but will they in the end, do anything but screw their own people. If Israeli moderates do not rebel soon, siding with Israeli settler parties will causes a certain Israeli coming doom.

Of course the other irony is the Palestinians, who have fragmented into two governments, the rat fink violent Hamas in Gaza have really done nothing for their people, and the peaceful non-violent Palestinians in Fatah can't advance the position of the people in the West Bank, either. Because Israel does nothing to reward peaceful behavior either.

Your delusion Common Courtesy, is that the international Community tolerance of present Israel government behavior is not coming to a very swift final end.

So the real question becomes, will the Israeli government wake up and smell the coffee, reject its Israeli settler party kooks, or will all of Israel get really really end up being dope slapped because they can't reject Israeli settler party irrationality.

Even in the USA, as our government flip flops between political parties, that both claim to best represent the American people, but woe be upon the political party that forgets to deliver the long term bacon.

Its the same question that faces Israel, Fatah, and Hamas.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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I can't believe how self delusional you, Common Courtesy, are from the beginning to the end of this post.

Face the facts, a government exists to serve their people, and if the government fails to serve the people, they will get replaced.

What we have in Israel, is the same we have in the West Bank and Gaza. We have governments that claim to represent the people, but will they in the end, do anything but screw their own people. If Israeli moderates do not rebel soon, siding with Israeli settler parties will causes a certain Israeli coming doom.

Of course the other irony is the Palestinians, who have fragmented into two governments, the rat fink violent Hamas in Gaza have really done nothing for their people, and the peaceful non-violent Palestinians in Fatah can't advance the position of the people in the West Bank, either. Because Israel does nothing to reward peaceful behavior either.

Your delusion Common Courtesy, is that the international Community tolerance of present Israel government behavior is not coming to a very swift final end.

So the real question becomes, will the Israeli government wake up and smell the coffee, reject its Israeli settler party kooks, or will all of Israel get really really end up being dope slapped because they can't reject Israeli settler party irrationality.

Even in the USA, as our government flip flops between political parties, that both claim to best represent the American people, but woe be upon the political party that forgets to deliver the long term bacon.

Its the same question that faces Israel, Fatah, and Hamas.

injured-myself-yawning.jpg
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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Lemon, I really can't even justify why you turn a blind eye to the blatent call for Isreal to be wiped off the map and the repeated and reapeated cease fires broken by suicide bombers and rockets being launched at Israel. As always, Israel will show a hand of goof faith and like the last 15 times it will get bitten. Who gives a flying fuck what the international community thinks? At the end of the day it will be Israel that has to defend it's people, not the International Community.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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As always, Israel will show a hand of goof faith and like the last 15 times it will get bitten.
Good faith? like this:

Weisglass, who was one of the initiators of the disengagement plan, was speaking in an interview with Haaretz for the Friday Magazine.

"The disengagement is actually formaldehyde," he said. "It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."
Face it man, the Israeli establishment doesn't want peace, they want the West Bank, which is why they keep building on to their settlements all across it.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
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There will never be peace.
The zionist nutjobs believe that it's their land, and don't want any peace. They want to conquer the land that god gave them by destroying palestinian houses and colonizing those lands with settlemens.
If they want peace, create a state, define the borders, they wouldn't be blurrying everything up with settlements.

Israel doesn't want peace, palestinians are scattered and divided, infiltrated by instransigent thoughts, so they can't stand up or those who do are islamic nutjobs.

There's only an external organ who's serious about the peace, but the UN aren't going to take over control and enforce the borders....

and then israelis complain about "anti-semitism" in europe. Only nutjobs believe in that racist crap nowadays. Now it's hipster to be anti-zionist.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
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I don't get it. There was a Palestinian state. Then Europe took a bunch of it to give to Jews who they wanted to get rid of. Isn't the remainder by default still the Palestinian state?

There has never been a palestinian state at any point. Before Israel, it was British-controlled Jordan. Before that, it was the Ottoman Empire for centuries.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
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Dunno, will Israeli "tear down this wall!"? Fat chance in reality. :hmm:

images

Consider the irony of this comic. The poor palestinian is trapped in the hell that Hamas has made for themselves, crying because he is unable to escape into the civilization that is Israel.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
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There will never be peace.
The zionist nutjobs believe that it's their land, and don't want any peace. They want to conquer the land that god gave them by destroying palestinian houses and colonizing those lands with settlemens.
If they want peace, create a state, define the borders, they wouldn't be blurrying everything up with settlements.

Israel doesn't want peace, palestinians are scattered and divided, infiltrated by instransigent thoughts, so they can't stand up or those who do are islamic nutjobs.

There's only an external organ who's serious about the peace, but the UN aren't going to take over control and enforce the borders....

and then israelis complain about "anti-semitism" in europe. Only nutjobs believe in that racist crap nowadays. Now it's hipster to be anti-zionist.

blah blah blah the jews are evil and responsible for all the violence in the world. What, me an anti-semite? No way! Only filthy evil jew would believe that!
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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blah blah blah the jews are evil and responsible for all the violence in the world. What, me an anti-semite? No way! Only filthy evil jew would believe that!

No, no, anti-semitism is now a myth. Ignore the recent rantings of Mel Gibson, Charlie Sheen, that Dior designer dude, Desmond Tutu, Jimmy Carter, and the Geico gecco.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Consider the irony of this comic. The poor palestinian is trapped in the hell that Hamas has made for themselves, crying because he is unable to escape into the civilization that is Israel.
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But what Qpion the idiot conveniently forgets is that its not Hamas that prevents the poor Hamus dominated Palestinian from escaping back into the civilization of Israel, it was instead the un civilizationion government of Israel that robbed the Israeli Palestinians of their land, kicked them out of their original 1948 homes in Israel, and said go away and don't ever come back.And now you assert, that Israel is really willing to assimilate its Palestinians and grant them human rights if they just reform?

What a lying sack of shit you are QuantumPion, blaming the robbery victim for being robbed.
And when Hamas dares protest, its their fault as Israel keeps robbing and controlling land they cannot own, not just in Gaza, but everywhere else they touch.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Yeah... not gonna happen, no one is behind the suggestion, not the EU (i would know, i can promise you that much) not the US and not the UN...

Sorry, bunch of shit reiterated to make Net seem like a bad guy on the run, presented to you by Hamas representative Lemon (Ich liebe Hitler) Law.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I'll put up $10 American that there will be no unilaterally declared Palestinian state by September this year. Oh, Hamas saying there is one doesn't count. I mean acknowledged by the world at large.

So who wants easy money? ():)
 
Jun 26, 2007
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I'll put up $10 American that there will be no unilaterally declared Palestinian state by September this year. Oh, Hamas saying there is one doesn't count. I mean acknowledged by the world at large.

So who wants easy money? ():)

I wouldn't take that bet, but if someone will, i would be interested to see how high they would go because less than £1000 is not a bet i'll take, over that, absolutely.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Yeah... not gonna happen, no one is behind the suggestion, not the EU (i would know, i can promise you that much) not the US and not the UN...

Sorry, bunch of shit reiterated to make Net seem like a bad guy on the run, presented to you by Hamas representative Lemon (Ich liebe Hitler) Law.
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Your problem JOS is that I am long on record in saying what the Hitler fascists did was wrong. The problem is that we have only replaced Nazi fascism with equally wrong Israeli fascism.

Now once we realize that truth, we need to look at the problem as a no longer white black issue. To some extent my perceived position is not really what I would like it to be, as it appears, because as I am forced to spending the bulk of my time debunking Israeli propaganda bullshit, that I must thus favor the other sides.

I would far more rather say, we have a rotten prehistory with wrongs on all sides, and if the world fails to fairly solve Israeli Palestinian issues, we have a flash point for igniting WW3.

Meanwhile, JOS back at your Afghan ranch, just how well have your predictions worked out? As I have always said I would rather have a Nato win, but if we are stupid instead, we are sure to lose. Rather than taking my advice, Nato keeps making negative progress instead.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Your problem JOS is that I am long on record in saying what the Hitler fascists did was wrong. The problem is that we have only replaced Nazi fascism with equally wrong Israeli fascism.

Now once we realize that truth, we need to look at the problem as a no longer white black issue. To some extent my perceived position is not really what I would like it to be, as it appears, because as I am forced to spending the bulk of my time debunking Israeli propaganda bullshit, that I must thus favor the other sides.

I would far more rather say, we have a rotten prehistory with wrongs on all sides, and if the world fails to fairly solve Israeli Palestinian issues, we have a flash point for igniting WW3.

Meanwhile, JOS back at your Afghan ranch, just how well have your predictions worked out? As I have always said I would rather have a Nato win, but if we are stupid instead, we are sure to lose. Rather than taking my advice, Nato keeps making negative progress instead.

All i read is "wir müssen Die Juden ausrotten"... which is standard style from our resident Hitler advocate.

You see, i don't really give a shit about you anymore, when you started calling Jews Nazis i stopped caring.

You went of my grid as a sane human being and became just another Nazist who eventually neads to die.
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
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personally? i'm beyond caring at this point. both sides have innocents and murderers. IMO there's no diff between soldiers killing civilians on purpose to a bomb going off and killing civilians.

the situation is f'd up as there's a blood debt on both sides and any forced peace will leave one hell of a sour taste in the mouths of a lot of people both sides.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
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All i read is "wir müssen Die Juden ausrotten"... which is standard style from our resident Hitler advocate.

You see, i don't really give a shit about you anymore, when you started calling Jews Nazis i stopped caring.

You went of my grid as a sane human being and became just another Nazist who eventually neads to die.

And people wonder why there is anti-semitism in the world. If someone doesn't agree with Jews, then you are a Nazi who needs to die.

Make your bed... Lie in it... It will be sorted out in the end, and I'm sorry to say, all your other zionist friends will figure it out the hard way (again).
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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You guys *do* realize that our resident Jew Hater started this thread on April 1st...


Do you?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Consider the irony of this comic. The poor palestinian is trapped in the hell that Hamas has made for themselves, crying because he is unable to escape into the civilization that is Israel.

So true, but do you think comrade steeplerot will understand that?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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But what Qpion the idiot conveniently forgets is that its not Hamas that prevents the poor Hamas dominated Palestinian from escaping back into the civilization of Israel, it was instead the un civilizationion government of Israel that robbed the Israeli Palestinians of their land, kicked them out of their original 1948 homes in Israel, and said go away and don't ever come back.And now you assert, that Israel is really willing to assimilate its Palestinians and grant them human rights if they just reform?

What a lying sack of shit you are QuantumPion, blaming the robbery victim for being robbed.
And when Hamas dares protest, its their fault as Israel keeps robbing and controlling land they cannot own, not just in Gaza, but everywhere else they touch.

Let see how the facts play out against the LL version.

The Arab countries advised (very strongly) that the local residents of what would be Israel proper to move out of the area due to the coming and ongoing conflict. As soon as the Jews were driven into the see, come on back to you lands and have their land also.

Those that listened to the Arabs were sent to Gaza and/or the West Bank.
Egypt controlled Gaza and prevented the Palestinians from moving any further.

Egypt setup the LL "concentration camps" and sealed off the Egyptian border.

so when the Arabs tried to steal land that they did not own, it is OK. When Israel takes land, it is not.
When Israel removes itself completely from Gaza expecting that the previously state land for peace would be honored, what happened. The Palestinians moved northward and exposed more of Israel citizens to shelling.

Hamas takes of control of Gaza and lives for the fact that Israel must be destroyed.

Israel is taking land that no other country has control of. It is land that they were handed by the original owners as part of a peace brokerage.

/end of facts

Where is Egypt and Jordan asking for the land back to prevent Israel for planting settlements? Apparently,they must feel that they gave up the land, it is up to Israel to manage it.

When the Palestinians had control of it, they refused to do anything except attack Israel from it. They were still hoping and to this day, expect that they can drive Israel into the sea.

They may be brainwashed, but they voluntarily chose that option.

It would be nice for them to actually have a state and be forced to take responsibility for their actions. And get Israel off the hook for caring for this crippled group. This way, the world can again see how the Arabs love the Palestinians. Watch the supplies needed come in via sea and/or across the Sinai. You would not expect that Israel would support a terror state by providing access to goods that would be used to attack her.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
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And people wonder why there is anti-semitism in the world. If someone doesn't agree with Jews, then you are a Nazi who needs to die.

Make your bed... Lie in it... It will be sorted out in the end, and I'm sorry to say, all your other zionist friends will figure it out the hard way (again).

No, there is anti-semitism in this world because people like you who fail at life and in the bank get jealous at success so you place blame on your failure to Jews.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Even though what much of what Common Courtesy is mostly true, its the added slant that is not.

The only question is where do we start the history of the State of Israel clock. On one hand we can say 3/1948 when the UN ratified it, but of course there was a long pre-history
before that, in which rivals groups grappled for post British Palestinian Mandate Hegemony.

But still, I think its fair to say, that all those post WW2 Jewish refugees Europe basically caused, were sitting in squalid refugees camps because the guilty Europeans who allowed their displacement then did not want them back. So label the European, US, And Russian history despicable.

Then an old idea that had been sitting around for at least 50 years was dusted off, as lets just solve the Jewish refugee problem by dumping them all into Israel. Instantly it gets the Europeans off the hook, the Brits wanted to get out of the thankless business of running the Palestinian mandate, and as long as the Surrounding Arabs states dealt with British hegemony they had long ago been forced to accept, they were content. But as soon as the surrounding Arab states learned they would be dealing with a State of Israel, at least partly run by Jews, they screamed NIMBY. Meanwhile, everyone realized the existing land of Israel was about 2/3 Palestinian owned so the question of what to do about the Palestinian people needed to be addressed. But enter stage center, pre 1948, moderate Jewish leaders like David Ben Gurion and others promising the larger world Israel would fairly govern and grant equal rights to Jews and Palestinians. Which was, IMHO, the goal we search for now, and had that happened, we would have peace in the mid-east with Israel being an accepted part of the mid-east.

But still, in terms of terrorism, even before Israels 1948 ratification, certain radical Jews were the #1 British mandate terrorist groups, although a few Palestinian groups were active too.

But after months and years of talking in far off NYC, the UN finally ratified the State of Israel in 1948. And then what we got was basically nothing but violence among the three major groups of Arab Nation States with standing Armies, Israeli Jews fighting for their very survival, and the Palestinian people caught between the two. In terms of arms and weapons, The Arab States with standing armies had the most arms by a wide margin, The Israeli Jews and mainly its worst terrorists were well armed in terms of light arms, but were woefully out gunned in terms of heavy weapons like artillery batteries, tanks, and planes. As for the Palestinians they were almost all unarmed and untrained.

In terms of the violence in the pre and post 1948 formation of Israel, we can maybe say small but well organized Jewish terrorist were murdering Palestinians in 1947, but the most of the blame lies, IMHO, with the Surrounding Arab state all attacked Israel immediately after the UN ratified the State of Israel. With the stated intent do drive the Jews into the sea. There is no legitimizing that act by the Arab States, and we are still are paying for that stupidity. ( But as side note, we can see Israeli fan clubbers advocating that Israel do the same thing to a UN approved possible Palestinian State should it be declared in the near future. )

But the long and the short of the 1948 Arab v Israeli war, is that almost everyone expected the Arab Goliath to win, and instead the Israeli David prevailed instead. But its not as much as saying Israel won, its more a case that the Arabs were totally disorganized and way too over confident. As the Arabs managed to grasp defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory. As for the Jews, in terms of organization, its something Israel has as its long suit.

Now lets look at the Palestinians and their role in the 1948 war. And they can only be likened to somewhat children on the eve of war. Both Arab States and Israel were saying, run away while we fight the war, as the Arabs did promise it would soon be time for the Palestinians to come home. But as the group the ran away because they were unarmed and thus unable to fight, the Palestinians have to be classed as innocent by standers.

But after the dust settled and the Arabs limped home, Israeli leaders breathed a giant sigh of relief. Because they knew they had barely won, and were far to weak to attack the retreating Arab armies or ask for Arab land.

So instead they decided, why not blame it all on the Palestinians, because we get to steal their land, expel them from Israel, which works great for Israel. And it even works with Arab States too, they get to keep their own land, then Arab leaders can make a few bellicose anti-Israel Statements, and then see how lucky you are to live under my corrupt government, because you would be as bad off as the Palestinians without my leadership.

But in 1967& 1973 it gets even better than that for Arab States and Israel. Because we may debate the causes of the 1967 war, but there is no debate on the fact the Palestinian people didn't cause it. And ditto in 1973.

Yet now the Palestinians exist as this wonderful whipping boy. If an Iran, Turkey, Syria, Libya, Lebanon, or insert any country does something to worry Israel, its time to whip on the hapless Palestinians, and Israeli honor thus satisfied, they can talk more rationally to the offending nation.

But that is the base reason we are in a mess in the mid-east, we transfer the blame from those that strong and guilty, and instead transform the blame over to the weak simply because its easier to steal from the weak.