Effort to declare Palestinian State as close as two weeks

[irishScott]

I'm all for a Palestinian state.

The terrorist attacks will stop immediately after that happens, right?

They better. Like others have pointed out, Israel will have the right under international law to declare war if attacked, and the UN, Lemon Law, Red or anyone else won't be able to say shit about it.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I don't get it. There was a Palestinian state. Then Europe took a bunch of it to give to Jews who they wanted to get rid of. Isn't the remainder by default still the Palestinian state?

There has never officially been a State of Palestine. Nor did Europe just "take it."

Edit: btw, if this actually happens you can bet that Hamas will refuse to recognize Palestine as an official State and will wreak all kind of havoc.

 

[Freshgeardude]

In related news Netanyuhu is trying to persuade the UN head, Moon, to back Israel's intention of blocking a large 15 ship flotilla heading for Gaza sometimes between May 15 to May 31, 2011. And who knows, its possible that the UN will instead rule Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal.

not to get TOO off topic, since this quoted section is in the OP, but

all goods can freely go into gaza. they can clearly bring supplies the legal way.

the flotilla is a political stunt. it has nothing to do with the people of gaza.

 

[ElFenix]

I don't get it. There was a Palestinian state. Then Europe took a bunch of it to give to Jews who they wanted to get rid of. Isn't the remainder by default still the Palestinian state?

uh, no. there was the ottoman empire from 1520 to 1918, then occupied by the victorious parties after wwi, then the british mandate of palestine to 1948. prior to that it was ruled by mamluks (turks) from cairo, ayyubids (kurds) from cairo, and flipping between berbers, crusaders, and turks before that. so the last time palestine was really controlled by arabs was the abbasids in 969. but they were from baghdad and so there wasn't a palestinian state.

the last time there was an independent state of roughly the area and dimensions of palestine+israel was prior to the romans taking over. but back then the area wasn't palestine, as palestine was a word invented by the romans to insult the jews (changing the name of the province to show their domination of it).

 

[Freshgeardude]

Dunno, will Israeli "tear down this wall!"? Fat chance in reality. :hmm:

you mean the wall israel put up to stop suicide bombers from entering israel so easily and killing hundreds of people?

 

[Steeplerot]

you mean the wall israel put up to stop suicide bombers from entering israel so easily and killing hundreds of people?

Times that by 10 and thats how many Palas die. It's not a one-sided issue. Israel is responsible for itself and is strong. Quit defending extremists and enabling both sides.

 

[wuliheron]

Cool! Now the US can get involved in 20 wars at once!

 

[Freshgeardude]

Times that by 10 and thats how many Palas die. It's not a one-sided issue. Israel is responsible for itself and is strong. Quit defending extremists and enabling both sides.

war is ugly.


casualties exist.

Israel has always acted within legal rights of retaliation.


just because its stronger than what the palestinians use, doesnt make it wrong.

ie: i can defend myself with a gun from a person with a knife.


israel only acts to defend its citzens. the wall and the retaliatory strikes would not be happening without a reason

 

[Steeplerot]

war is ugly.


casualties exist.

just because its stronger than what the palestinians use, doesnt make it wrong.

ie: i can defend myself with a gun from a person with a knife.

This is fascism. It does not help the situation, but that is not your point is it? You wish harm upon Jewish people by continuation of war. It is obvious right-wingers have not changed.

 

[werepossum]

uh, no. there was the ottoman empire from 1520 to 1918, then occupied by the victorious parties after wwi, then the british mandate of palestine to 1948. prior to that it was ruled by mamluks (turks) from cairo, ayyubids (kurds) from cairo, and flipping between berbers, crusaders, and turks before that. so the last time palestine was really controlled by arabs was the abbasids in 969. but they were from baghdad and so there wasn't a palestinian state.

the last time there was an independent state of roughly the area and dimensions of palestine+israel was prior to the romans taking over. but back then the area wasn't palestine, as palestine was a word invented by the romans to insult the jews (changing the name of the province to show their domination of it).

It wasn't an independent state, but the UN did carve out a small portion of the Palestine Mandate for a separate nation, with the remainder becoming Trans-Jordan. I think that's what he is referencing, although even that small portion wasn't given to the Jews, it was to be divided between the Arabs and the Jews. The Jews only seized the main of it and formed Israel, much against Britain's wishes, after the British announced their intention to abandon the remaining region and therefore the Jews would lose even the scant British protection against the very common Arab attacks. Other parts of Israel, that the Arabs want back, were seized when Arab nations banded together to attack tiny Israel. Personally I think that if you attack another nation and lose territory, that territory should be lost forever.

Another thing that is seldom pointed out is that the Jews began to move back into Israel far earlier than the Second or even the First World War, in response to the numerous massacres and official pogroms against Jews common in Middle Easter Muslim nations during the eighteen and nineteenth centuries.

 

[Freshgeardude]

This is fascism. It does not help the situation, but that is not your point is it? You wish harm upon Jewish people by continuation of war. It is obvious right-wingers have not changed.

no, i dont want israelis dieing.

neither does the very right wing government in israel.


thats why the retaliatory strikes are so defining

 

[Steeplerot]

no, i dont want israelis dieing.

thats why the retaliatory strikes are so defining

That is a contradiction in one post, escalation of war increases hard right governments power over the masses through increased militarism and casualties.

It is a old game of imperialist divide and conquer, another way of supporting localized terrorism and Israeli government under the thumb of the US.

 

[ElFenix]

It wasn't an independent state, but the UN did carve out a small portion of the Palestine Mandate for a separate nation, with the remainder becoming Trans-Jordan.

separate country. there was no separate nation, mostly just random arabs who had a lot more loyalty to their own tribe than any larger societal unit. certainly no palestinian identity then.

now there is due to a shared suffering for the last 60 years.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Once we have an established Palestinian State, there is likely to be some continued tit for tat violence on all sides, but we can only hope it will fade over time.

All your idiotic denials about having Palestinians parents and you yourself denying that you are Palestinians in just BS!!!

I for one knew that you were Palestinian and I knew your parents have a condominium on the Gaza!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

That is a contradiction in one post, escalation of war increases hard right governments power over the masses through increased militarism and casualties.

It is a old game of imperialist divide and conquer, another way of supporting localized terrorism and Israeli government under the thumb of the US.

__________________

Thats just plain idiotic and stoopid reasoning!!

 

[Lemon law]

Once again, JediY keeping attacking me, for all the good it will do you. Its the Russians, the UN, the USA, and EU you must convince. And when Israel cred it may have formerly had is unraveling fast lately for Israeli it looks really bad.

If you want to talk only to your self and fellow Israeli fan clubbers too, it does not give you a real perspective of the rest of the world.

As for me I don't side with Fatah, Hamas, the Arabs, or Israel either, but when we have a tit for tat violence clusterfuck for 63 years, the only thing to be said is four wrongs cannot add up to a single right.

Rather than engage in pissing contests, I can only say, it looks like 2011 is when the larger world is getting serious about getting this conflict settled. If Israel thinks it can defy the world, it can join a long list of no longer existing governments who tried the same stunt.

 

[Matt1970]

I was speaking of Israel, not the USA which is nothing but the imperialist master pulling the Israeli puppet strings.

If we are pointing fingers at Anti-Semitic behavior you rw extremists are literally helping the situation worsen for the good amount of people living in Israel in peace who have no problems with their neighbors.

Cought in a lie once more trying to back out of your blind blaming of the right-wing for everything you can think of.

 

[Nebor]

They better. Like others have pointed out, Israel will have the right under international law to declare war if attacked, and the UN, Lemon Law, Red or anyone else won't be able to say shit about it.

Agreed.

 

[Matt1970]

That is a contradiction in one post, escalation of war increases hard right governments power over the masses through increased militarism and casualties.

It is a old game of imperialist divide and conquer, another way of supporting localized terrorism and Israeli government under the thumb of the US.

You have seriously lost your mind.

Now any escalation of war is Conservative Control over the masses. You could almost be explained as a comedian except you are being dead serious.

 

[JEDIYoda]

This is fascism. It does not help the situation, but that is not your point is it? You wish harm upon Jewish people by continuation of war. It is obvious right-wingers have not changed.

You have no clue what real fascism is. You are truly goofy and downright dumb if you equate what Israel does to fascism.

 

[Genx87]

This is fascism. It does not help the situation, but that is not your point is it? You wish harm upon Jewish people by continuation of war. It is obvious right-wingers have not changed.

What is fascism? A govt taking steps to prevent attacks from a foreign invader? Since when?

 

[Matt1970]

Well Matt1970, you just keep attacking me

And this is why.

Once we have an established Palestinian State, there is likely to be some continued tit for tat violence on all sides, but we can only hope it will fade over time.

You description of Palestine repeatedly breaking cease-fires with suicide bombers in crowded public places killing innocent people and constantly lobbing rockets is merely described as "Tit for Tat Violence"

What do you say to yourself to explain away the repeated publicly open calls from Hamas to wipe Israel off the face of the planet?

 

[Lemon law]

To start out Matt1970, you are starting from a false premise. If a few Hamas terrorists, or admit it, your not sure who the terrorists is aligned with retaliates against Israel, that makes every Palestinian on the planet a terrorists.

Yet when settler party crazies murder Palestinians and cut down their Olive trees, its does not reflect on Israeli character.

When you can grow up, lose your its and all black and all white world perspective, then we can all review the pre history of the Israeli state to the present and find that Israel was born in an orgy of Israeli terrorism and Israeli land theft also. And its the Palestinians that got robbed. As too many idiots instead think Israel should have the right to claim they are the victims here.

In short all sides were wrong back in 1948, but the issue to be settled now, is getting Israel to its 67 borders because Israel cannot retain the West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem.

And because it looks like Israel does not have a single other nation in the world willing to go to bat for the Israeli desire to retain its illegal land gains, it finally looks like Israel will lose an upcoming UN resolution that will have teeth. A number of months ago the US saved Israeli butt with a US veto in the UN security council, but it looks like Obama has already told Bozo Netanyuhu that he won't get one again. There has been about five years of diplomacy, most of it behind closed doors, leading up to this moment, but almost everyone in the world blames Israel for the current impasse.

Why Matt1970, why should I repeatedly explain anything to you when your mind is made up with a false revisionist history. When its more fun for me to watch your opened mouth disbelief when the jig is finally up for Israeli stalling. As for me I have known this day must come, for decades, and I am in disbelief it has not come yet.

Regardless if Israel was the place to settle the Jews made into badly victimized refugees
by Hitler and fascists post WW2 or not, making those Jewish refugees more whole was the right thing to do. Where it went badly wrong in 1948 is when those same Jewish refugees did onto Palestinians exactly what Hitler did onto Jews. But instead of gassing them dead, the world has gained an equally sized Palestinian refugee problem.

 

[Matt1970]

You REALLY need to do some reading up on Hamas.

 

[Lemon law]

You REALLY need to do some reading up on Hamas.

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I already told you I don't favor Hamas, but like every group, they can claim to lead the "people", but when they have insufficient followers, they can no longer claim to lead. As for Hamas its a Jonney come lately group, that only came to power in the last six years, or less than 10% of Israeli history as a State. As for its sister group Hezbollah it didn't exists until Israel tried a brutal occupation of Lebanon, and Hezbollal gained its power by providing the social services to the Lebanese people Israel should have.

As for Israel, its leadership is in a state of flux also, but its Bozo Netanyuhu and his settler parties that are scaring the hell of more rational Israelis. As a tiny minority of settler party crazies tell the whole wide world the bible is their license to steal. Most Israelis don't back the settler parties, and would rather see a peaceful resolution. But Netanyuhu is between a rock and a hard place, because if he defies the settler party greed, his coalition government will fall, setting up Israel for new elections. And even if settler parties win the election they would be much like pre WW2 nations like Italy Japan, and Germany, who also proclaimed their license to steal, and instead found that license quite forcefully revoked.

And basically that is what we have in this link, is the whole wide world a fixing to get together and tell delusional settler parties that the bible gives them no such rights. Then Matt1970, who are then going to believe, billions of rational Christians, Muslims, and millions of Jews too, or just a few hundred thousand Israeli settler kooks.

As for Hamas, once a deal with Israel happens, the people of Gaza are likely to rejoin Fatah. And then if a few remaining 100 Hamas idiots want to start a jihad, they can't do much damage before they die for their God. As for me, I would rather later see Hamas as only some brief footnote in a history book, a terrorist group that only compiled a brief six year history before becoming obsolete.