Education and the Wealth Divide

[blackangst1]

Give me a break, it's not that exact. Our current levels are through the roof, and that's most likely a problem. Fixing it helps everyone. Our system inherently embraces inequality to some extent, and there's nothing wrong with that, but things have gotten really out of hand and you know it.

OK I'll rephrase it.

At what time in our country's history was the split between rich and poor...between CEO and worker...acceptable?

 

[fskimospy]

OK I'll rephrase it.

At what time in our country's history was the split between rich and poor...between CEO and worker...acceptable?

What do you mean by 'acceptable'? That's a very strange way of putting things.

Regardless, I think the answer you want is probably between the end of World War 2 and 1980.

 

[umbrella39]

Did he say it's the weathy's fault? You are setting up a strawman.

Of course he is as no one said any such thing in this thread. Most just ignore his inane diversions anyhow...

 

[blackangst1]

What do you mean by 'acceptable'? That's a very strange way of putting things.

Regardless, I think the answer you want is probably between the end of World War 2 and 1980.

Why is it strange? You know exactly what Im asking, and youre nit picking. Acceptable as in, the majority of people would be OK with the gap between the rich and poor, between worker and CEO pay.

Anyhow, interesting answer, yours. The state of things right before globalization.

 

[fskimospy]

Why is it strange? You know exactly what Im asking, and youre nit picking. Acceptable as in, the majority of people would be OK with the gap between the rich and poor, between worker and CEO pay.

Anyhow, interesting answer, yours. The state of things right before globalization.

It's not a particularly interesting answer, and the world has been heavily globalized in the past. Two parts to opening your economy to world markets are supposed to be the lowering of trade barriers to encourage GDP growth along with the use of a robust social safety net to pick up those affected negatively by it. We forgot one part of that.

 

[wirelessenabled]

You understand that in order to have a middle class there must be rich and poor. Right? And you do understand that a level playing field doesnt mean financial equality. Right?

Save a few loons I dont see any Republicans saying everything is A-OK and the middle class doesnt need help. Perhaps you can provide something other than an anecdotal link to support your whining? Otherwise its just that. Your post is as absurd as saying the left wish for nothing more than socialism and to punish the wealthy for their success.

Just the Republicans who are advocating for a "flat" tax. A flat tax will have the effect of increasing taxes on the poor and middle class and reducing tax on the rich, excuse me, "job creators". That would have the effect of making the Rich, richer, and the rest poorer. Hardly a reasonable plan to bolster the middle class.

Seems like that category covers most Republicans, at least all the R candidates for President except maybe Mitt.

 

[rchiu]

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-17/wall_street/30062886_1_nyu-linkedin-profile-train

This is the real face of the education and wealth divide. In this, an irate commuter berates working people for daring to interrupt her while talking on her cell phone.

Education is as much about prestige and the wealthy reinforcing their privilege. It also saddles people with insane amounts of debt. It is a bad proposition all around IMO.

What does being a b!tch have anything to do with education? Education teaches a person certain skill set and for that person to start at certain career path. Education certainly doesn't guarantee the person to be a nice, courteous or moral.

Education is not about prestige, it's says that certain person has the ability, the grade, the work ethic, the drive to get selected into a highly selective program. The education also give the person some basic skills and knowledge to start at certain career, for example, finance/investment banking. And to get to higher up, certain career track is required.

Don't blame education if you don't know what education will or will not offer. Some degree with offer better career track than the other, and it is purely your fault to get a degree that doesn't offer you the job prospect to pay off your student debts.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

One of the MAJOR problems with our schools, kids are not taught "how to make money".

We are told to get an education and go to work for someone else. The problem is, that is not how you make money.

If this nation wants to address the wealth divide, everyone should be taught how to make money. Then, stop the lies about getting an education and going to work for someone else.

All and education does is create a higher level of worker bees. You have the bees that gather the pollen, and then you have the bees that work on the honeycomb, but they all work for the queen bee.

Are you trying to suggest that the solution is for everyone to open up a small business? Are you aware of the fact that the vast majority of small businesses fail even during good economic times?

What we need are better economic policies, not cuckoo-cloud touchy-feely Horatio Alger BS about how everyone can and should start their own business.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

No, it is not the wealthys fault.

Don't the wealthy pretty much purchase and control the politicians and the government? Isn't it the wealthy that decided to ship millions of jobs overseas, fill American jobs with foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and to support mass immigration (lowering wages for the lower class and displacing them from their jobs)?

The wealthy class knows what it's doing, and they'll do whatever they can to increase the percentage of wealth they can keep from a worker's contribution to the act of wealth production. They understand that if they increase the supply of labor through global labor arbitrage that they can keep more wealth and pay the lower classes less.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Not to mention not everyone has the brain to make it through a masters program at Harvard et al. Or for some, math 101 at the community college. Not being mean, just stating a fact.

What people don't realize is that even if everyone had the ability to do that, it wouldn't make any difference. You would just end up with lots of intelligent, college-educated people who are unemployed or underemployed.

It's truly amazing how many sheeple believe that getting a college degree is a guarantor of vocational and financial success and that the solution to our nation's economic problems is simply for everyone to get a college degree in a useful field.

In reality, only 10-15% of all jobs that need to be done require or make any direct use of a college education. The vast majority of jobs are in retail services or blue collar labor. We need to design economic policies so that many of those people can be middle class.

 

[blackangst1]

Just the Republicans who are advocating for a "flat" tax. A flat tax will have the effect of increasing taxes on the poor and middle class and reducing tax on the rich, excuse me, "job creators". That would have the effect of making the Rich, richer, and the rest poorer. Hardly a reasonable plan to bolster the middle class.

Seems like that category covers most Republicans, at least all the R candidates for President except maybe Mitt.

Youre fucking clueless. Let me rephrase what you said so I make sure to understand. You're saying that Republicans who are advocating a flat tax believe everything is A-OK? If so, please provide supporting links. Or quit trolling.

 

[blackangst1]

What people don't realize is that even if everyone had the ability to do that, it wouldn't make any difference. You would just end up with lots of intelligent, college-educated people who are unemployed or underemployed.

That may be true as there are certainly plenty of un/underemployed people with degrees.

It's truly amazing how many sheeple believe that getting a college degree is a guarantor of vocational and financial success and that the solution to our nation's economic problems is simply for everyone to get a college degree in a useful field.

Can you provide an example of someone who believes an education is a guarantor? I dont think Ive ever heard or read of one. And you're right. An educated populace doesnt guarantee success of a country. The Philippines, for example, has one of the highest percentages of college educated people; however, due to a number of things including their government's isolation in the world market, has prevented them from rising out of poverty. That, however, is changing rapidly.

In reality, only 10-15% of all jobs that need to be done require or make any direct use of a college education. The vast majority of jobs are in retail services or blue collar labor. We need to design economic policies so that many of those people can be middle class.

Would love to see a supporting link.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Can you provide an example of someone who believes an education is a guarantor?

I don't have anything specific to offer you at this time, but the message is all over the place. No one comes out and explicitly says that it will guarantee success, but that's the implication. Also, it's implied that failure to get a college degree will almost guarantee failure.

Would love to see a supporting link.

So would I. Just drive around town and look at the jobs people are doing. How many of them require a college education? A large percentage of the jobs out there are low-paying retail and fast food jobs. Then there are blue collar jobs that don't require a college education. It's really only a small percentage of people--doctors, lawyers, accountants, and engineers, etc., that make real use of a college degree.

Now, as a result of what's called credential inflation many jobs require that you have one in order to get hired, but that's not the same as the doing of the work's actually requiring it. Businessmen and insurance brokers might be a good example. In the past many of those same jobs were done by people who only had high school educations and who learned on the job.

 

[fskimospy]

Not to mention not everyone has the brain to make it through a masters program at Harvard et al. Or for some, math 101 at the community college. Not being mean, just stating a fact.

I didn't notice this before, but in a lot of ways this post inadvertently mentions one of the biggest problems with our university system. Masters programs at Harvard are by and large, exceptionally easy; the actual coursework in their MBA program is a joke. The primary purpose of that program is as a networking opportunity, not to accumulate skills.

 

[wirelessenabled]

Youre fucking clueless. Let me rephrase what you said so I make sure to understand. You're saying that Republicans who are advocating a flat tax believe everything is A-OK? If so, please provide supporting links. Or quit trolling.

Not so clueless.

If the Republicans who are advocating a flat tax, which hits the middle class and poor harder than it hits the rich, then ipso facto they must believe that the middle class and the poor can absorb and deal with higher taxes better, more easily, than the rich folks can.

I dumbed this down to 8th grade English for you. Should I go lower than that?

 

[schneiderguy]

Even community colleges are topping $10K a year for TUITION.

[citation needed]

In CA it's around $1k a year for tuition at a CC. CSU's are about $3-4k a semester so $8k a year. UC's are around $15k a year IIRC.

 

[1prophet]

Don't the wealthy pretty much purchase and control the politicians and the government? Isn't it the wealthy that decided to ship millions of jobs overseas, fill American jobs with foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and to support mass immigration (lowering wages for the lower class and displacing them from their jobs)?

The wealthy class knows what it's doing, and they'll do whatever they can to increase the percentage of wealth they can keep from a worker's contribution to the act of wealth production. They understand that if they increase the supply of labor through global labor arbitrage that they can keep more wealth and pay the lower classes less.

It's also due to their aristocratic mentality, a rising middle class creates potential competition for them and they are glad when a recession comes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120371859381786725.html?mod=fpa_mostpop

Yet with "The One Percent," Mr. Johnson wanted to show how the rich have gone too far. Through interviews with economists, policy experts and environmentalists, Mr. Johnson argues that today's wealthy have become an increasingly isolated elite. He says rather than using their wealth for good, they have used it to restructure the economy, lower their taxes, cut social programs for the middle and lower classes, and amass ever more wealth.
Mr. Johnson says finding willing subjects for "The One Percent" was difficult, and not just because of his reputation. He sent out more than 100 letters to wealthy people asking for interviews and most said no or failed to reply. Even George Soros, the billionaire financier who often argues against inequality, refused.
"We have an aristocracy in this country that has convinced everybody else that they don't exist," Mr. Johnson says.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

It's also due to their aristocratic mentality, a rising middle class creates potential competition for them and they are glad when a recession comes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120371859381786725.html?mod=fpa_mostpop

Wow. Thanks for the link. I hadn't heard any of that story at all. I guess the 1% did a nice job of squelching publicity for that film.