Edmunds drives the Volt

[Pulsar]

No, I'm correct.

http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/27/how-charging-of-the-battery-works-in-the-chevy-volt/

Interesting that there's so much information out there that even big names can't get what this car is supposed to do through their heads.

I'm glad Chevy is producing these in low numbers. So far, their marketing machine has utterly failed them.

 

[sdifox]

I wouldn't buy either one. I currently get under 15mpg on premium and couldn't care less. I don't know why you keep quoting $41k for the Volt. Can you opt out of the $7500 tax credit? You appear to be the economics expert here, so why would someone do that? The average price of a new car in the US in 2010 is a little over $29,000. That places the Volt a reasonable $4,500 above an averaging selling car. The Fisker you are so proud of is out of financial range for all but about the 99th percentile of US households making it completely meaningless to the public. That leaves a far far greater chance that within 5 years, GM will have been able to advance their technology along with mass of scale production to greatly improve performance and price vs what Fisker will be able to do.

Where do you think the 7500 tax credit comes from? Are you shocked to find out that it came from your pocket? Every joe and his uncle is paying for part of it. That is what subsidy is. I do not take those into account when I am comparing value of cars. Not for Volt, not for Kharma.

Volt wants to be everything to everyone and failed at pleasing any particular group.

Issue at GM is management, I am not sure they fixed it yet.

Shit, I paid 23k for a 3 year old MB E350 4Matic. That leaves me 10k for gas and service if you like pegging the Volt at 33k.

Again, I have nothing against hybrids. I just have problem with retarded ones.

 

[Bignate603]

Where do you think the 7500 tax credit comes from? Are you shocked to find out that it came from your pocket? Every joe and his uncle is paying for part of it. That is what subsidy is. I do not take those into account when I am comparing value of cars. Not for Volt, not for Kharma.

Volt wants to be everything to everyone and failed at pleasing any particular group.

Issue at GM is management, I am not sure they fixed it yet.

Shit, I paid 23k for a 3 year old MB E350 4Matic. That leaves me 10k for gas and service if you like pegging the Volt at 33k.

Again, I have nothing against hybrids. I just have problem with retarded ones.

People here keep on saying that the volt failed. Yet I can bet they will sell every single one they can possibly make for the first few years of the production run. People will buy them as a statement that they aren't using oil or because they're bad at math. Either way, GM won't have an issue selling these cars. Somehow that doesn't seem like "failing to please any particular group".

 

[Pariah]

Again, I have nothing against hybrids. I just have problem with retarded ones.

The Volt will end up being retarded only to those that lack forward vision.

 

[sdifox]

People here keep on saying that the volt failed. Yet I can bet they will sell every single one they can possibly make for the first few years of the production run. People will buy them as a statement that they aren't using oil or because they're bad at math. Either way, GM won't have an issue selling these cars. Somehow that doesn't seem like "failing to please any particular group".

EV1 program should have been further developed. That made sense to me, albeit the burden on the electric grid. And Volt still uses oil, after 40miles, you are burning oil. Until fusion is harnessed or people get over the anti nuke sentiment, we will be using oil. Hell, USA still has a lot of coal burning power plant, I think that is worse than oil.

Not that plug in electric does not have its own problems, notably the grid as it stands cannot possible support the demand. We maybe switching back to local generation again and just use the grid as backup. I don't see too many politicians with enough balls to quadruple the grid.

The only thing sustaining GM was human stupidity. Hopefully that is behind them.

2011 Fusion Hybrid is supposed to be 41 city / 36 highway. It's a mid size sedan, it's a hybrid, and it's msrp is 28,100 with invoice 25,820. Fusion is a decent vehicle, why not just get the Fusion Hybrid?

http://autos.yahoo.com/ford_fusion/

Miraculously the same Fusion Hybrid MSRP in Canada is C$35949 (inc option,destination and ac tax) But until end of August there is incentive knocking that down to 31620.... humm, I think I should check it out.

 

[sdifox]

The Volt will end up being retarded only to those that lack forward vision.

Fusion Hybrid > Chevy Volt.

http://www.hybridcars.com/vehicle/ford-fusion-hybrid.html

 

[StageLeft]

Fisker Karma isn't a player yet because nobody has heard of it; has no dealer network, no history. Like Tesla but worse.

Is GM working right now on an identified plan to replace the 1.4L ICE in this vehicle? I think the technology they have in Volt certainly has potential but once the new car shine wears off its mileage is a concern for those doing much driving. If it COULD (and maybe it can, as per above we need to wait until somebody does some long term testing) get Prius mileage when on gas and have an electric range of 40 things would be much different.

I'm going to say right now I think this 33 mpg may be pessimistic. I really want to see what it can truly get on a fresh tank.

 

[Bignate603]

EV1 program should have been further developed. That made sense to me

Sure, after 40 miles with the volt you're using gas, but in the EV1 you only got 15 to 35 miles more and then the car stops moving. That's fine for many people's commute but the vast majority of people use their cars once and a while for trips that will exceed that range. Most people don't want or can't afford a second car just for the days that they need to drive longer. The fact of the matter is that until somebody solves the problem of range and the time to charge most people will not view an electric only vehicle as an option.

 

[Imdmn04]

This car is made for city dwellers, if you drive more than 40 miles a day, then this not the car for you.

If you live in the city and occasionally go out of the city for a road trip, then it is the car for you.

 

[sdifox]

This car is made for city dwellers, if you drive more than 40 miles a day, then this not the car for you.

If you live in the city and occasionally go out of the city for a road trip, then it is the car for you.

I would say 90% of my driving is in the city.

 

[StageLeft]

Sure, after 40 miles with the volt you're using gas, but in the EV1 you only got 15 to 35 miles more and then the car stops moving. That's fine for many people's commute but the vast majority of people use their cars once and a while for trips that will exceed that range. Most people don't want or can't afford a second car just for the days that they need to drive longer. The fact of the matter is that until somebody solves the problem of range and the time to charge most people will not view an electric only vehicle as an option.

Remember it was also first out almost 15 years ago and battery technology sucked balls back then. Leaf should do 100 and I'd say that's about bare minimum for an electric-only. I would definitely consider a car that could do 100 miles between charges.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Shouldn't that make it more efficient?

No. Too small an engine on a heavier vehicle will make it less efficient. Vehicle size and weight needs to be matched up with the appropriate size engine. Many people don't get this, and automatically assume smaller engine = better mpg, every time, all the time, when it simply is not so.

 

[iGas]

This car is made for city dwellers, if you drive more than 40 miles a day, then this not the car for you.

If you live in the city and occasionally go out of the city for a road trip, then it is the car for you.

The volt sat square in the middle between the Prius & the Leaf at a much higher price.

Leaf will do 50% more mpg and cost 63% of the Volt if you use Chevy formula. As for the highway/long distance travel you have the Prius as the king of the hill for efficiency.

For 40K you can buy a Prius and still have enough money to last you the car lifetime for fuel & maintenance. Or, buy a Leaf for 25K, and purchase or rent a car with the 15K left over when you need to travel beyond your city.

I can't wait to see what Tata can do over here, because at the present they have a $2.500 car that is good for 59 mpg.

 

[iGas]

No. Too small an engine on a heavier vehicle will make it less efficient. Vehicle size and weight needs to be matched up with the appropriate size engine. Many people don't get this, and automatically assume smaller engine = better mpg, every time, all the time, when it simply is not so.

Tell that to the ignorant GM engineers/admin.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Volt is currently unqualified for Cali's HOV lanes because of that engine.It also will not get the $5K Cali credit.

The Leaf currently qualifies for both.

 

[Bignate603]

Tell that to the ignorant GM engineers/admin.

Please enlighten us on how they are ignorant by their choice in engine size.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Volt doesn't make any economic sense at all to me, either for the country or for individuals, and I think it's technological sense is very questionable as well.

Neither of which means it won't sell well. I think it will sell well.

Unless GM totally screws the pooch, there will be enough people who want to make make a statement, and don't want to think the purchase through, to sell a lot of Volts.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

You have to keep in mind that this is GM's first foray into the world of plug in electric range extended vehicle. Instead of developing a specialized generator, they simply dropped in a GM Family 0 Engine. This engine has nothing special about it, most likely to keep the cost down, but give me a break, this engine was developed for use in entry level compact cars.

Are they using the EcoFlex version?

The Prius uses an Atkinson cycle engine to improve efficiency...

 

[PlasmaBomb]

It's really all speculation until some third party gets a hold of a production Volt and gets to run it through a full barrage of tests. I can't wait for C&D to test drive it and manage to get only 19 mpg .

If you want to get a nice low number give it to Jeremy "POWER" Clarkson...

14.16 mpg (17 Imp mpg) in the Prius wasn't it?

 

[Imdmn04]

The volt sat square in the middle between the Prius & the Leaf at a much higher price.

Leaf will do 50% more mpg and cost 63% of the Volt if you use Chevy formula. As for the highway/long distance travel you have the Prius as the king of the hill for efficiency.

For 40K you can buy a Prius and still have enough money to last you the car lifetime for fuel & maintenance. Or, buy a Leaf for 25K, and purchase or rent a car with the 15K left over when you need to travel beyond your city.

I can't wait to see what Tata can do over here, because at the present they have a $2.500 car that is good for 59 mpg.

Volt leases about the same as a Leaf. Leasing a Volt is much better deal than buying a Volt.

The Leaf is about $6K cheaper than than the Volt if you buy outright, not $15k like you claimed.

While 100 mile range is good for commuting to work everyday for most Americans, it is not that great for the weekend if I want to visit several places at once.

Volt is a compromise, a good one. Yes the MPG is not that great using gasoline, but 40 miles daily range is enough for most Americans, and on the weekend, I rather pay a little extra than the inconvenience of having to scramble to find a charging station.

When compared to the Prius, I do agree that the Prius is a better deal, but that car is butt-ugly. It doesn't even drive like a car, and feels like a high tech golf cart. The Volt, although no beauty queen, does resemble an actual car. It is the only Eco car that looks like a car and doesn't require you to make too much sacrifices in your commute habits.

 

[Pariah]

For 40K you can buy a Prius and still have enough money to last you the car lifetime for fuel & maintenance. Or, buy a Leaf for 25K, and purchase or rent a car with the 15K left over when you need to travel beyond your city.

From another comparison:

"Under those assumptions (and including the after-rebate charging station cost), the Leaf's break-even compared to the Corolla for total price, including power, comes after driving around 155,000 miles."

In other words, none of these electric cars make economic sense. Based on typical mileage, it would take the average person 10 years to break even with the Leaf. Just buy a Corolla and be better than everyone else. This also doesn't take into account whether the battery will need to be replaced within 155,000 miles. It is reported that it costs Nissan about $9000 (about $375 per kW-hour) to produce each battery which is considered exceptionally cheap by current industry standards.




One major advantage of the Volt vs the Leaf is battery charge time. Using a 220V outlet, the Volt takes 4 hours. The Leaf, which requires a custom charger needs 8 hours. So, for every 100 miles you drive a Leaf you have to park your car for 8 hours to charge since it won't drive when the battery is empty. That could pose some inconvenience issues depending on usage.