Edmunds drives the Volt

[LTC8K6]

Err, it's intended to be a commuter car...not a 230 mile per day car.
It's also a statement that pisses in the eyes of anyone that wants to whine about the demise of the EV1.

I don't see any marketing as a commuter car.

 

[LTC8K6]

(340 - 40 miles) / 9 gallons = 33.33 mpg once the battery is depleted.

The battery is always in use though, so that number must be low. Even at the battery depletion point, the battery is still used to provide short bursts of power to help with acceleration or hill climbing.

Just discounting the battery after 40 miles is not going to be accurate.

 

[hanoverphist]

i wonder how much the mileage would drop if you slapped a couple 12" subs in the trunk

 

[StageLeft]

That is unfortunate it requires premium. Doesn't take away from its short-trip commuting part but getting 32 mpg after battery on premium fuel really just is not good.

 

[kalrith]

The battery is always in use though, so that number must be low. Even at the battery depletion point, the battery is still used to provide short bursts of power to help with acceleration or hill climbing.

Just discounting the battery after 40 miles is not going to be accurate.

What number must be low? The 340 miles of travel that GM itself stated the Chevy Volt would travel? If anything GM's numbers are going to be high in order for better marketing. I'd be really surprised if the Volt could actually travel the full 340 miles without hypermiling.

I don't see how it makes any difference what the battery's doing. The point is that it takes about 9 gallons of gas plus the electricity to charge the battery to travel 340 miles. Even if electricity were free (which it isn't), then you're looking at 37.78 mpg, which isn't much more mileage than larger, non-hybrid sedans like the Camry (33 mpg highway).

 

[LTC8K6]

What number must be low?

The fuel economy number. Doesn't seem like it can be right. 50mpg has been the favorite used number for a while now.

The Volt's range-extending gasoline engine is expected to get approximately 50 mpg-US (4.7 L/100 km; 60 mpg-imp) on the city cycle of the EPA's test while operating in this Charge Sustaining (CS) mode.

Of course that's a city number, but I wouldn't expect it to drop that much onthe highway, but maybe it would.

But why use a city number if you'd be on batteries most of the time using it in the city?

 

[kalrith]

It's really all speculation until some third party gets a hold of a production Volt and gets to run it through a full barrage of tests. I can't wait for C&D to test drive it and manage to get only 19 mpg .

 

[Eli]

I think electric / hybrid cars prove their worth more in stop*go city traffic, I don't see how great they are if you do mixed/highway only driving

Just depends on the hybrid. My car gets decidedly better mileage on the highway.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Surely the ICE doesn't run constantly once the battery is out? I.e., the generator creates a power surplus to charge the batteries at the same time that it powers the wheels? So, road trip, highway driving. Mile 0, you've charged up at home and you run on electricity. Mile 50, battery's almost out, generator turns on. Generator provides power to the wheels and charges battery simultaneously. Mile 100, generator turns off, batteries are fully charged and good for another 50 miles. Mile 150, generator turns on again. Etc. These are just numbers out of my ass here, but surely that's how it's designed?

 

[LTC8K6]

Surely the ICE doesn't run constantly once the battery is out? I.e., the generator creates a power surplus to charge the batteries at the same time that it powers the wheels? So, road trip, highway driving. Mile 0, you've charged up at home and you run on electricity. Mile 50, battery's almost out, generator turns on. Generator provides power to the wheels and charges battery simultaneously. Mile 100, generator turns off, batteries are fully charged and good for another 50 miles. Mile 150, generator turns on again. Etc. These are just numbers out of my ass here, but surely that's how it's designed?

No, the ICE does not charge the battery past about 30% or so, the Customer Depletion Point. You cannot fully charge the battery with the ICE, only by plugging it in.

The generator provides most of it's power directly to the electric motor to move the car, once the battery is depleted.

 

[Pulsar]

There is a practical limit as to how quickly the batteries can recharge, and how much power it actually takes to charge them.

It is impractical to charge the batteries with the ICE, for these reasons.

The prius would have the same issue if it ran off it's batteries all the time. Instead, they use the batteries for all the low speed acceleration and such, and the motor runs mostly at its maximum point of efficieny.

 

[LTC8K6]

The only reason the ICE doesn't fully charge the batteries is because the whole purpose is to get the battery power from the grid and not from fossil fuels.

 

[Pulsar]

The only reason the ICE doesn't fully charge the batteries is because the whole purpose is to get the battery power from the grid and not from fossil fuels.

Wrong.

http://jalopnik.com/5054642/chevy-v...s-while-driving-just-a-regular-plug+in-hybrid

Quote:
"That 1.4-liter four-banger doesn't have the power to both motivate the quite-beefy Volt and recharge the battery pack"

To actually recharge the battery, a much bigger motor would have been needed, cutting into weight and efficiency.

 

[Pariah]

Wrong.

http://jalopnik.com/5054642/chevy-v...s-while-driving-just-a-regular-plug+in-hybrid

Quote:
"That 1.4-liter four-banger doesn't have the power to both motivate the quite-beefy Volt and recharge the battery pack"

To actually recharge the battery, a much bigger motor would have been needed, cutting into weight and efficiency.

Huh?

From the very article you linked:

Perplexed by this apparent change in course, we placed a call to Chevy spokesman Terry Rhadigan to find out more — and figure out why the Volt isn't just a regular hybrid?

According to Rhadigan,

"The reason it does that is because we want you to arrive with the batteries 'empty,' filling up on grid power costs about 1/6th of what it does with gas."

The quote you gave just looks like some random comment by the article's author with nothing to substantiate the claim.

 

[Bignate603]

Huh?

From the very article you linked:



The quote you gave just looks like some random comment by the article's author with nothing to substantiate the claim.

Yeah, the math doesn't work out on that either.

The engine in the volt has an output of 55 kW. A standard 220 Volt home outlet on a 30 amp circuit can realistically be expected to supply less than 5 kW. (220 volt AC * .707 Volts RMS/Volts AC * 30 amps = 4.6 kW). So the power to charge the battery is certainly available from the engine, it's just that there is no advantage to charging the battery any more than the car absolutely has to. After you pass the its all electric range every bit of extra electricity in the battery is equivalent to a bit of gas that you didn't need to burn. You want to roll into your destination where you can recharge with the absolute minimum of power left in your battery because to do that you'd have to use the electricity as much as possible and gas as little as possible to move the car.

 

[iGas]

What number must be low? The 340 miles of travel that GM itself stated the Chevy Volt would travel? If anything GM's numbers are going to be high in order for better marketing. I'd be really surprised if the Volt could actually travel the full 340 miles without hypermiling.

I don't see how it makes any difference what the battery's doing. The point is that it takes about 9 gallons of gas plus the electricity to charge the battery to travel 340 miles. Even if electricity were free (which it isn't), then you're looking at 37.78 mpg, which isn't much more mileage than larger, non-hybrid sedans like the Camry (33 mpg highway).

IMHO, the Volt is a lame duck right out of the gate because Chevy PR team doesn't know which way they should spin the car. The Volt would have a fighting chance if it is design as a small sub-compact commuter or a high performance sport sedan that sacrifice a bit of fuel for performance, but in this case Chevy failed because there isn't a market for it as the data below indicates.

Prius: 51 MPG city/48 MPG highway/50 MPG combined
Civic: 40 MPG city/45 MPG highway/42 MPG combined
Insight: 40 MPG city/43 MPG highway/41 MPG combined
Milan: 41 MPG city/36 MPG highway/38.5 MPG combined
Fusion: 41 MPG city/36 MPG highway/38.5 MPG combined
Lexus HS 250H: 35 MPG city/34 MPG highway/35 MPG combined
Goft/Jetta TDI: 30 MPG city/42 MPG highway/34 MPG combined
Audi A3 TDI: 30 MPG city/42 MPG highway/34 MPG combined
Camry: 33 MPG city/34 MPG highway/34 MPG combined
Altima: 35 MPG city/33 MPG highway/34 MPG combined

Volt: average 33.7 MPG

Mariner: 31 MPG city/35 MPG highway/33 MPG combined
Ford Escape: 34 MPG city/31 MPG highway/32.5 MPG combined
Yaris: 29 MPG city/36 MPG highway/32.5 MPG combined
Fit: 28 MPG city/36 MPG highway/32 MPG combined
Rio: 28 MPG city/34 MPG highway/31 MPG combined

 

[iGas]

Yeah, the math doesn't work out on that either.

The engine in the volt has an output of 55 kW. A standard 220 Volt home outlet on a 30 amp circuit can realistically be expected to supply less than 5 kW. (220 volt AC * .707 Volts RMS/Volts AC * 30 amps = 4.6 kW). So the power to charge the battery is certainly available from the engine, it's just that there is no advantage to charging the battery any more than the car absolutely has to. After you pass the its all electric range every bit of extra electricity in the battery is equivalent to a bit of gas that you didn't need to burn. You want to roll into your destination where you can recharge with the absolute minimum of power left in your battery because to do that you'd have to use the electricity as much as possible and gas as little as possible to move the car.

Constantly charging and discharging from maximum to minimum capacity would rapidly shorten the lifespan of the battery pack. Hence, the Volt may use the engine to trickle charge the battery to extend the lifespan of the batteries.

 

[sdifox]

Fisker Karma is looking much better.


Shit 2011 Ford Fiesta looks better in terms of fuel economy. 6 speed PowerShift FTW!

29/40 mpg


http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/05/1...s-best-in-class-epa-rating-of-40-mpg-highway/

 

[Pariah]

Fisker Karma is looking much better.


Shit 2011 Ford Fiesta looks better in terms of fuel economy. 6 speed PowerShift FTW!

29/40 mpg


http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/05/1...s-best-in-class-epa-rating-of-40-mpg-highway/

Quite the accomplishment, and it only took 6 generations of Fiesta's and slightly over 30 years of improvements to get there.

Anyone want to wager what improves more over the next 10 years? Price/performance/efficiency of battery technology, or of combustion engines?

 

[sdifox]

Quite the accomplishment, and it only took 6 generations of Fiesta's and slightly over 30 years of improvements to get there.

Anyone want to wager what improves more over the next 10 years? Price/performance/efficiency of battery technology, or of combustion engines?

Did you not see me mention Fisker Kharma? That is hybrid done right.

Volt is just misguided.

 

[LTC8K6]

Wrong.

http://jalopnik.com/5054642/chevy-v...s-while-driving-just-a-regular-plug+in-hybrid

Quote:
"That 1.4-liter four-banger doesn't have the power to both motivate the quite-beefy Volt and recharge the battery pack"

To actually recharge the battery, a much bigger motor would have been needed, cutting into weight and efficiency.

No, I'm correct.

http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/27/how-charging-of-the-battery-works-in-the-chevy-volt/

 

[LTC8K6]

Remember that while the Volt has a 16Kwh pack, it only ever uses about half of that capacity. The battery is kept between ~30% and ~80% SOC to greatly extend it's life. So, you should calculate using ~8Kwh.

 

[Pariah]

Did you not see me mention Fisker Kharma? That is hybrid done right.

Volt is just misguided.

You're comparing an $88,000 car to a $41,000 (-$7500 tax credit) one? I'm guessing you're not an economics major. So long as you can find a friend halfway between your home and job, you could buy 2 Volts and get 80 miles one way commute of gas free travel compared to the estimated 50 for the Fisker. Not only that, you'd still have enough money left over to get the "highest end" fully loaded Fiesta hatchback for your longer trips. Is this really the best the "I have an unnatural hatred for the Chevy Volt Club" can come up with?

 

[sdifox]

You're comparing an $88,000 car to a $41,000 (-$7500 tax credit) one? I'm guessing you're not an economics major. So long as you can find a friend halfway between your home and job, you could buy 2 Volts and get 80 miles one way commute of gas free travel compared to the estimated 50 for the Fisker. Not only that, you'd still have enough money left over to get the "highest end" fully loaded Fiesta hatchback for your longer trips. Is this really the best the "I have an unnatural hatred for the Chevy Volt Club" can come up with?

Make up your mind, do you care about how much you spend on a car or not? Spending 40k on a Volt is retarded. I'll buy a Fiesta and have enough money left over to cover fuel and service for the rest of the lifetime of the car.

And if you don't care about money, you buy Fisker Kharma, it is a good hybrid performance car. Yes, you do pay a lot for it, but at least you are getting what you paid for.

Leaf > Volt if you want to look at no fuel consumption.

You seem to lack the capacity to analise the data without getting emotional.

 

[Pariah]

I wouldn't buy either one. I currently get under 15mpg on premium and couldn't care less. I don't know why you keep quoting $41k for the Volt. Can you opt out of the $7500 tax credit? You appear to be the economics expert here, so why would someone do that? The average price of a new car in the US in 2010 is a little over $29,000. That places the Volt a reasonable $4,500 above an averaging selling car. The Fisker you are so proud of is out of financial range for all but about the 99th percentile of US households making it completely meaningless to the public. That leaves a far far greater chance that within 5 years, GM will have been able to advance their technology along with mass of scale production to greatly improve performance and price vs what Fisker will be able to do.