Edmunds: CTS-V vs M5 vs C63 AMG

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
You can always go Hartge.

They're another interesting group, but seem focused on cosmetic > performance.

Alpina does improve the 7-series somewhat, with a supercharger on the 4.4L V8, bringing it to 500hp. But with the weight of the 7-series, they would have better served the market by offering up a supercharged version of the 760Li.

Perhaps segment it as follows :

Alpina B7 = 4.4L 500HP SC V8, ~$130k (currently available)
Alpina B7S = 6.0L 680HP SC V12, ~$170k

At nearly 5000lbs, the 7-series does not make a compelling performance vehicle in the same class as the AMG S63, even when configured with the Alpina B7 model.

 

[DivideBYZero]

The Alpina B6 has a 530hp V8.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
The Alpina B6 has a 530hp V8.

That's better, but the 6-series is competing against the SL63? There's nothing to offer to counter the SL65 either, though I think it's been proven that SL chassis + 604HP + 738TQ = overkill. I think I prefer the looks of the BMW 5 and 6 series to the Mercedes counterparts, but the 7-series remains a weak spot, as well as the brand-name tuner options. BMW remains king with the //M3 at least 🙂 RS4 and C63 are simply not nimble enough to be credible as performance competitors, though for daily drivers or pure drag racers they can meet or exceed the 3.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

The CTS-V is easily the most complete, well rounded machine the General has ever produced. And I don't mean that in the typical back handed way most do when talking about American cars - "It's good for a GM." It's competitive in every way imagineable and superior in most performances categories.

I think GM would be wise to keep a few ZR1 motors on hand for the next CTS-V. I think another 80+ hp would hit the spot just right against the next gen M5.😀 Or minus a few hundred pounds.


Edmunds probably picked the C63 because of the price and because it adds some variety to the comparison test. It puts the bigger CTS and 5-series against a smaller, nimbler platform.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Koing
Will the caddy come to England?

Koing

Yes. But only in left-hand drive if that's a concern.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Koing
Will the caddy come to England?

Koing

Yes. But only in left-hand drive if that's a concern.

Right hand drives are coming in 2009 apprently.

Still well out of my price range so only 2nd hand cars for me 😛

Koing

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
The Alpina B6 has a 530hp V8.

That's better, but the 6-series is competing against the SL63? There's nothing to offer to counter the SL65 either, though I think it's been proven that SL chassis + 604HP + 738TQ = overkill. I think I prefer the looks of the BMW 5 and 6 series to the Mercedes counterparts, but the 7-series remains a weak spot, as well as the brand-name tuner options. BMW remains king with the //M3 at least 🙂 RS4 and C63 are simply not nimble enough to be credible as performance competitors, though for daily drivers or pure drag racers they can meet or exceed the 3.

The new gen 7 is a great improvement in looks. It's very imposing on the road IRL, whereas the old one looks droopy and slightly melted!

I live 1/2 mile from BMW UK HQ.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: Koing
Will the caddy come to England?

Koing

Yes. But only in left-hand drive if that's a concern.

Right hand drives are coming in 2009 apprently.

Still well out of my price range so only 2nd hand cars for me 😛

Koing

Cool, I didn't know they were making a right hand drive version. This is a car GM needs to sell everywhere.

About the 2nd hand cars, I'm in the same boat! Cars in this price range are only a pipe dream.🙂

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Yes this is excellent. Because me Arkaign and the rest of the M5 adoring crowds know very well what this means mwahahahah BMW will now have to release an M5 with much more POWA! Keep it up caddy yaaay 🙂

No doubt 😉 It's pretty obvious that they're getting ready to upgrade/replace the 5.0 V10 as the top end motor.

They have to power the new CS, which looks poised to be the new 8-series. It's a bit odd, because the old 8-series was a coupe, but the 6-series has that covered. So, 4-door coupe for the 8-series, a la CLS. With Audi also throwing mad power out there, I'd look for more techno-gizmos, and a boost to 550-580hp for the //M flagships, and a bump to ~440-460 for the M3.
...

Behonest with me fellow BMWer isn't 5.7 B12 this sexier than anything BMW ever made?

They should just bring back the molds and start making this all over again.

You'll just have to put up with this instead.

I don't know DBZ, I see what you are saying, but it's not about Alpina really, it's more about the infamous 6 series itself. Something about it is wrong, I just don't feel it. The styling hurts it too (I have seen / sat in an M6 before BTW) though the M6 has the 8-series character on the inside (it feels like a jet-fighter hehe), it definitely doesn't possess it on the outside., the 8-series feels like a Man's Battleship, the styling is unique and polarizing, heck the whole series itself is almost anonymous to most people, there is something special and "just for you" 'ish about it.

Matter of fact, my dream car is not just that B12 5.7L 8-series, it's in reality, that B12 with the M5's S85 V10 in it LOL. Ya something about the 8-series, it just....it grabs by the balls so to speak 🙂

ALSO the BMW CS sucks balls, what a hideous hideous design and I am glad it got cancelled. WHO in their right mind thought up the idea of the 8-series going up against the CLS?? Completely different passions there and not to mention different markets. Those BMW execs should have been slapped up their bald heads for that suggestion.
Here is to hoping the 8-series comes back in it's true styling and a true M8 is made.

 

[Arkaign]

Damn, CS cancelled, that sucks.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-cs-concept.html

"The production CS was being worked on exclusively by the company?s M division. A 6.0L V12 based on the M5?s V10 was rumored to be the car?s top engine choice."

" Speaking at a press conference early Tuesday, BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer said profitability has to become a new focus at the German automaker in light of declining sales and a global finical downturn.

?The sharper focus on profitability will result, amongst other things, in product decisions being revisited,? said Reithofer. ?As a result, the BMW Group will no longer produce a series version of the Concept CS since this vehicle does not meet the internal requirements for rates of return.? "

Argh. So pretty much sounds like even revised //M cars could be in trouble. The 3 is probably safe, but the 5, 6, Roadster, etc sound endangered.

 

[DarkThinker]

YES it's gone and it's never coming back mwahaha!

 

[Arkaign]

But I wanted my 600+HP Modular //M 6.0 V12 with a nearly 9000rpm redline :'(

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
But I wanted my 600+HP Modular //M 6.0 V12 with a nearly 9000rpm redline :'(

Well buddy, if you do want to see that delicious engine in your lifetime, join me and others over to the dark side and start demanding a real M8 car rolling off the production line

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
The CTS-V is easily the most complete, well rounded machine the General has ever produced. And I don't mean that in the typical back handed way most do when talking about American cars - "It's good for a GM." It's competitive in every way imagineable and superior in most performances categories.

I think GM would be wise to keep a few ZR1 motors on hand for the next CTS-V. I think another 80+ hp would hit the spot just right against the next gen M5.😀 Or minus a few hundred pounds.


Edmunds probably picked the C63 because of the price and because it adds some variety to the comparison test. It puts the bigger CTS and 5-series against a smaller, nimbler platform.

One would wonder how this would stack up.

NA of course (Z06 motor iirc), none of your nancy supercharging 😉

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...216272&highlight_key=y

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: dug777
One would wonder how this would stack up.

NA of course (Z06 motor iirc), none of your nancy supercharging 😉

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...216272&highlight_key=y

Stack up in what way? The CTS-V is faster. From your link, the Holden took 4.7s to 100km and 12.8s in the 400m (quarter mile). From the Edmunds link in this thread:

The CTS-V outpaced its competitors in the sprint to 60 mph with a dominant 4.3-second performance (4.0 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) supplemented by a scorching quarter-mile performance of 12.4 seconds at 114.7 mph. The next quickest to 60 mph proved to be the Mercedes with a 4.5-second tear (4.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), while the BMW stopped the clock in 4.8 seconds (4.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip).

Nancy supercharging? The LS7 is a fantastic motor, no doubt, but I wouldn't rag on a faster car because it uses forced induction.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: dug777
One would wonder how this would stack up.

NA of course (Z06 motor iirc), none of your nancy supercharging 😉

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...216272&highlight_key=y

Stack up in what way? The CTS-V is faster. From your link, the Holden took 4.7s to 100km and 12.8s in the 400m (quarter mile). From the Edmunds link in this thread:

The CTS-V outpaced its competitors in the sprint to 60 mph with a dominant 4.3-second performance (4.0 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) supplemented by a scorching quarter-mile performance of 12.4 seconds at 114.7 mph. The next quickest to 60 mph proved to be the Mercedes with a 4.5-second tear (4.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip), while the BMW stopped the clock in 4.8 seconds (4.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip).

Nancy supercharging? The LS7 is a fantastic motor, no doubt, but I wouldn't rag on a faster car because it uses forced induction.

Stack up as an all-round package, even I can read numbers 😉

Just out of interest, can you strictly compare 0-60mph to 0-100kmh? I assume it's irrelevant for all practical intents and purposes due to margin for error, but strictly speaking 0-100kmh is 0-62.137mph.

 

[Hyperlite]

Originally posted by: mariok2006

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: ElFenix
even captain slow liked it

although it took him until they hit twisties to stop complaining 😀

That's because he's an old fashioned whiny cock. 😉

but cocks now drive audi's!