Edmunds: CTS-V vs M5 vs C63 AMG

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
1st: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V - Best performance, lowest price, most comprehensive feature content puts Cadillac atop the sport sedan pedestal.

2nd: 2009 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG - Good things come in small packages, and the C63 uses this to its advantage, scoring within 1.6 points of the CTS-V.

3rd: 2008 BMW M5 - Once the undisputed super-sedan benchmark, the four-year-old M5 is still a great sport sedan, just not the best.

It's Academic If you're looking for the short answer, here it is; the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V is undeniably faster, more nimble and between $27,000 and $32,000 less expensive than the BMW M5 it was designed to beat. The M5's price/performance ratio really penalizes it in this comparison. Is the CTS-V really better than the C63 AMG? Well, once you look at the score cards, you'll find one 1st-place score in the M5's column (earned in our evaluation category), three 1sts for the CTS-V (features, performance and price), and two for the C63 (editors' personal and recommended picks). The winner would seem a forgone conclusion then. But have a look at the 2nd- and 3rd-place scores. The C63 snatched four 2nd-place scores to the CTS-V's three 3rds. Because of the way we weight the final scores, the Cadillac ekes out a 1.6-point margin over the Mercedes-Benz. We've declared such close scores an effective tie in the past, but the Cadillac's dominance in measured performance tests plus its uncommon comfort, comprehensive list of features and even best observed fuel economy of this trio combine to earn it our fullest endorsement as the winner of this comparison. "Sport Sedan Standard of the World" now wears a Cadillac wreath and crest.

http://www.edmunds.com/insidel....il.home.photopanel..1
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
This is a historic moment for GM and for Cadillac. Dethroning iconic German luxury/performance brands would have been absolutely unthinkable a very short time ago. I certainly wouldn't have believed it possible until seeing it actually happen. Personally, I'd rather own the M5, but that's admittedly for subjective rather than objective reasons, and logically and performance-wise, the CTS-V is the king of the heap.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,714
164
106
I think this is a strong testament to how far along Cadillac has come. I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with this article...but the fact that Cadillac has something even remotely competitive with these German super-sedans speaks volumes to how far Cadillac has come in such a short time. They were producing absolute crap less than 10 years ago.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
I hope you guys realize that Top Gear is in all likeliness scripted for the most part--I think the actors know what they're going to say about the car from the start and then add their own twist in half way through.

Maybe not though.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Somehow I doubt this will keep people from whining about how GM doesn't build decent cars. Everyone I talk to that don't like American cars keep on bringing up how their/their family's/their acquaintance's vehicle had problems a while ago (usually 5-10+ years ago) and that proves that cars they are making now can't possibly be good. Companies change. If the American automakers were putting out the caliber of vehicles a few years ago that they are now it would be a pretty different pictures. It took them a while but they're finally getting it.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Somehow I doubt this will keep people from whining about how GM doesn't build decent cars. Everyone I talk to that don't like American cars keep on bringing up how their/their family's/their acquaintance's vehicle had problems a while ago (usually 5-10+ years ago) and that proves that cars they are making now can't possibly be good. Companies change. If the American automakers were putting out the caliber of vehicles a few years ago that they are now it would be a pretty different pictures. It took them a while but they're finally getting it.

Yea and now Ford's quality is high. People still can't get over how they were and will still talk crap on them no matter how good Domestics are now.
 

secretanchitman

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
9,352
21
91
nice! even though i would prefer an M5, its great to see competition, especially from the americans. hard to believe that just a few years ago, cadillac going against bmw would be absurd (in terms of performance).

interesting that they used the C63 though...i personally think they should have used the E63 as it has more power (500+HP) thats up there with the M5 and CTS-V.

also, to me, isnt the CTS and C class the sporty/baby of the two brands and the 5 series the sporty/luxury of bmw? how about the STS-V, E63, and M5?
 

Apex

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
6,511
1
71
www.gotapex.com
Originally posted by: secretanchitman
nice! even though i would prefer an M5, its great to see competition, especially from the americans. hard to believe that just a few years ago, cadillac going against bmw would be absurd (in terms of performance).

interesting that they used the C63 though...i personally think they should have used the E63 as it has more power (500+HP) thats up there with the M5 and CTS-V.

also, to me, isnt the CTS and C class the sporty/baby of the two brands and the 5 series the sporty/luxury of bmw? how about the STS-V, E63, and M5?

It's a size issue.

The CTS, 5 Series, and E Class are are all virtually identical in size. They're the most natural competitors.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: secretanchitman
nice! even though i would prefer an M5, its great to see competition, especially from the americans. hard to believe that just a few years ago, cadillac going against bmw would be absurd (in terms of performance).

interesting that they used the C63 though...i personally think they should have used the E63 as it has more power (500+HP) thats up there with the M5 and CTS-V.

also, to me, isnt the CTS and C class the sporty/baby of the two brands and the 5 series the sporty/luxury of bmw? how about the STS-V, E63, and M5?

It's a size issue.

The CTS, 5 Series, and E Class are are all virtually identical in size. They're the most natural competitors.

But they didn't use an E class, they used the C63. I, too, think they should have used the E63. The C is a size class down from the other two.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,948
15,088
126
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Somehow I doubt this will keep people from whining about how GM doesn't build decent cars. Everyone I talk to that don't like American cars keep on bringing up how their/their family's/their acquaintance's vehicle had problems a while ago (usually 5-10+ years ago) and that proves that cars they are making now can't possibly be good. Companies change. If the American automakers were putting out the caliber of vehicles a few years ago that they are now it would be a pretty different pictures. It took them a while but they're finally getting it.

Yea and now Ford's quality is high. People still can't get over how they were and will still talk crap on them no matter how good Domestics are now.

Took the Japanese a long time to build a reputation at the expense of the domestics, it would take at least as long to win it back. Probably longer with all the negativity surrounding the domestics.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
0
0
Yes this is excellent. Because me Arkaign and the rest of the M5 adoring crowds know very well what this means mwahahahah BMW will now have to release an M5 with much more POWA! Keep it up caddy yaaay :)
 

Koing

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
Oct 11, 2000
17,090
2
0
Will the caddy come to England?

Koing
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Yes this is excellent. Because me Arkaign and the rest of the M5 adoring crowds know very well what this means mwahahahah BMW will now have to release an M5 with much more POWA! Keep it up caddy yaaay :)

No doubt ;) It's pretty obvious that they're getting ready to upgrade/replace the 5.0 V10 as the top end motor.

They have to power the new CS, which looks poised to be the new 8-series. It's a bit odd, because the old 8-series was a coupe, but the 6-series has that covered. So, 4-door coupe for the 8-series, a la CLS. With Audi also throwing mad power out there, I'd look for more techno-gizmos, and a boost to 550-580hp for the //M flagships, and a bump to ~440-460 for the M3.

Still, as a BMW fan, I don't begrudge Caddy in the least. It's impressive and heartening to see a brand so utterly reborn. I don't think I've seen anything like it since Audi turned around from utter garbage in the '80s to a pretty decent competitor in the '00s. Of course that can be said of a few other brands as well, to some extent or another. Caddy takes the cake for biggest turnaround I believe.
 

DarkThinker

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2007
2,822
0
0
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Yes this is excellent. Because me Arkaign and the rest of the M5 adoring crowds know very well what this means mwahahahah BMW will now have to release an M5 with much more POWA! Keep it up caddy yaaay :)

No doubt ;) It's pretty obvious that they're getting ready to upgrade/replace the 5.0 V10 as the top end motor.

They have to power the new CS, which looks poised to be the new 8-series. It's a bit odd, because the old 8-series was a coupe, but the 6-series has that covered. So, 4-door coupe for the 8-series, a la CLS. With Audi also throwing mad power out there, I'd look for more techno-gizmos, and a boost to 550-580hp for the //M flagships, and a bump to ~440-460 for the M3.
...

Behonest with me fellow BMWer isn't 5.7 B12 this sexier than anything BMW ever made?

They should just bring back the molds and start making this all over again.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: DarkThinker
Yes this is excellent. Because me Arkaign and the rest of the M5 adoring crowds know very well what this means mwahahahah BMW will now have to release an M5 with much more POWA! Keep it up caddy yaaay :)

No doubt ;) It's pretty obvious that they're getting ready to upgrade/replace the 5.0 V10 as the top end motor.

They have to power the new CS, which looks poised to be the new 8-series. It's a bit odd, because the old 8-series was a coupe, but the 6-series has that covered. So, 4-door coupe for the 8-series, a la CLS. With Audi also throwing mad power out there, I'd look for more techno-gizmos, and a boost to 550-580hp for the //M flagships, and a bump to ~440-460 for the M3.
...

Behonest with me fellow BMWer isn't 5.7 B12 this sexier than anything BMW ever made?

They should just bring back the molds and start making this all over again.

You'll just have to put up with this instead.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Alpina is very very nice, though not as aggressive as I'd like them to be. The B7 is very underwhelming compared to //M5 and the AMG models.

I wish RUF did BMWs :'(