*EDIT* Mac vs. PC Flame war

[Imaginer]

The only thing IMO that is different between the PC and Mac is the interface. And personally, Windows is not so bad for 96%ish of the time and it gets the job done in terms of computing (and for ALOT less money to boot).

between my laptop which is $1100 and my sister's powerbook $2300+ and for the end result in terms of computing, there is not much of a noticable difference. It is simply an interface that Macs have going for them and if you think you prefer a more expensive interface, go ahead and burn the dollars.

Sure you can get something that is a bit cheaper for the Mac but like anything else, you compromise the performance. Same with PCs but for the same budget one has, one does not have to do this with the PC.

I guess what I am trying to say is this, is it really worth the $1000+ extra for something trivial as a user interface? I dont think it is but to each his own (and to how much money one is willing to burn)

 

[iwantanewcomputer]

wrong forums(nobody here likes macs)

 

[codeyf]

Look on Craigslist instead if you have to pay cash. Get a better deal. It's still way overpriced, but you can get a better deal.

 

[helpme]

You're not in college, or I would suggest buying the laptop through the ADC student program for a larger discount. They also sent me to WWDC 2005 ($1600 Value!)

There's nothing wrong with buying something that your parents told you not to if it's with your own money. If they were right, and you bought a useless piece of junk, they'd just be teaching you a lesson.

You've already got the Mac Mini, what's wrong with that? You can run OS X, write Cocoa, etc. The Powerbook will NOT be significantly faster (I have one). Otherwise, forgo the powerbook and buy an iBook. 900$ will get you plenty of machine for a high school student. Maybe the lower price will convince him.

If you want to actually put some effort into trying to convince him:

Learn to write Cocoa, and write a (useful) app for the platform. Release it on sourceforge (or other high profile free download repository).

Show your dad how many people download your application (if it doesn't suck).

Tell him that it's easier to get noticed writing software for the Mac because there are less people programming for the platform. Note that this could help you get internships or jobs in the future.

Ask again for his help in buying another Mac, this time armed with the ability to produce something useful with the platform (rather than just wanting another computer), so that you can use it to write more software while not at home. You'll probably impress him if you can write something and have people download it, and it's easier than you think.

 

[loup garou]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: manly
Ahh okay, you just threw out any credibility you may have had there.

Watch out, he might have to publicly own you. :roll:

Another vocal mac user comes out of the woodwork. Watch where you chuck those rainbows- it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

LOL, I don't particularly like Macs or any Apple products. I certainly don't use any Apple products on a daily basis (although I support a few Macs and god knows how many iPods). I'd probably buy an iPod if they had better color screens and wma support and I didn't have to use iTunes, and Apple's hardware design is pretty cool, but I don't like OSX. But unlike you, I can separate the products and their users (ie, not look like a flaming moron).

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: TheGeek

Originally posted by: Ornery
...the Mini was only $600

Christ, you could have gotten SO MUCH PC for less than that! You are such a typical Mac hype swallower, I'd be embarrassed to death if I were your dad!

Have you ever even used a Mac?? You sound like a Windows hype swallower.

Why is it that everybody associates Windows with a PC? Again, you are not forced to use Windows.

 

[dguy6789]

Show him this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232

 

[Ornery]

Even at $2299, although system prices are getting more reasonable, it's still higher than what most PC users will consider.

Most PC users, like the ones who populate these forums, looking for the best bang for their hardware buck. BTW, WTF happened to the Apple forum that was kicked around?

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Ornery
My son was REQUIRED to get a GD Mac for school, or there is NO WAY we'd own the damn thing!

DAAP is such a pain in the ass to get into... then they REQUIRE a mac? I bet that they just get commision from it.

The 3 software packages they REQUIRE are all available on PC.

Just like when I got suckered into buying a $100 network card in 2000 so I could use the WSU network in the dorms.

 

[SagaLore]

I actually liked the MacOS prior to X. When they moved to X, they basically stomped on all of the reasons why the original mac interface was superior to windows.

I bought my wife a Mac-Mini, and even though it is easy for me to help her maintain, as far as actually using a programs, I end up saying "you know this would be so much easier on windows..."

 

[sniperruff]

yeah sure spending $2100 on something that depreciates in 2 weeks because "you want it" is very convincing.

 

[thomsbrain]

I agree with your dad. Macs are a waste of money. You can get a faster, cheaper, and infinitely more USEFUL computer by buying a PC. You can also connect to more networks, share files easier, use new programs sooner, etc, etc, etc. There is absolutely zero reason to buy a Mac these days, for anyone (this includes audio/video/image editing). A snazzy looking interface doesn't justify double the price, half the speed, and a tiny fraction of the compatibility.

Furthermore, as others have mentioned, at under 18 you do not need more than one computer, and you certainly do not need a freaking $2100 laptop. Has it occured to you that a Powerbook, which is already obsolute compared to PC's, is going to be useless in a year, not just because it is slow as molassas, but because Apple is going to switch to Intel-based systems and when they do, it will require a new OS, new programs, etc? And that any programs written after that are unlikely to work on your legacy system? And how will you pay for this inevitable replacement?

And do you have any idea how much college is going to cost? Even if your parent's have you covered, you need that for spending money. Or a car. Or money towards the newer car you will need in 5 years if you're driving a beater right now. Or towards any of a million unforeseen possibilities. 5 years ago I had no idea I would be playing a rock band and lugging around $10K in equipment, with no money left over to fix or replace my aging car. Now I wish that when I was younger I hadn't bought that computer I didn't need, or the $700 digital camera that's now completely obsolete, etc, etc.

Edit: And I might mention that I actually own a $2300 laptop, but when I bought it, it was faster than the fastest DESKTOP Dell sold, and it still rocks the block nearly two years later. (3.2 GHz HT P4, 1GB DC-DDR400, 800 Mhz FSB, 7200 RPM 8MB cache 60GB drive, wireless-g, 1600x1200 screen, 128MB ATI 9600). My nearly two year old lappy would still kick the living crap out of that brand-new Powerbook, and could be purchased for a lot less money these days. (i've got a better screen, double the memory, more than double the memory speed, double the video memory, a faster hard disk, equal connectivity... oh darn, it's not "titanium." i guess the powerbook must be better after all.) And unlike you, who WANT it because it's cool and it makes you feel different and superior while actually just joining the herd following the marketing hype, I bought mine because I NEEDED it to perform extremely CPU-intensive professional audio recording in multiple locations. recording that, i might add, would bring any G4 to its knees, despite the program originally being written for the Mac. how do i know? i've used G4 desktops running signigicantly less demanding recording sessions and watched them sputter, choke, freeze, and crawl their way through the sessions... sessions i can run on my laptop while simulataneously playing a DVD, running firefox, and editing in photoshop.

 

[Ornery]

...they REQUIRE a mac? I bet that they just get commision from it.

The excuse they gave was, too many diverse systems used in the past, led to too much time screwing with hardware instead of learning. Many, if not most, of their other colleges require PCs instead.

I don't give a shlt anymore. The cost of that unit pales in comparison to the rest of the money we're laying out!

 

[TheGeek]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
I agree with your dad. Macs are a waste of money. You can get a faster, cheaper, and infinitely more USEFUL computer by buying a PC. You can also connect to more networks, share files easier, use new programs sooner, etc, etc, etc. There is absolutely zero reason to buy a Mac these days, for anyone (this includes audio/video/image editing). A snazzy looking interface doesn't justify double the price, half the speed, and a tiny fraction of the compatibility.

Furthermore, as others have mentioned, at under 18 you do not need more than one computer, and you certainly do not need a freaking $2100 laptop. Has it occured to you that a Powerbook, which is already obsolute compared to PC's, is going to be useless in a year, not just because it is slow as molassas, but because Apple is going to switch to Intel-based systems and when they do, it will require a new OS, new programs, etc? And that any programs written after that are unlikely to work on your legacy system? And how will you pay for this inevitable replacement?

And do you have any idea how much college is going to cost? Even if your parent's have you covered, you need that for spending money. Or a car. Or money towards the newer car you will need in 5 years if you're driving a beater right now. Or towards any of a million unforeseen possibilities. 5 years ago I had no idea I would be playing a rock band and lugging around $10K in equipment, with no money left over to fix or replace my aging car. Now I wish that when I was younger I hadn't bought that computer I didn't need, or the $700 digital camera that's now completely obsolete, etc, etc.

Edit: And I might mention that I actually own a $2300 laptop, but when I bought it, it was faster than the fastest DESKTOP Dell sold, and it still rocks the block nearly two years later. (3.2 GHz HT P4, 1GB DC-DDR400, 800 Mhz FSB, 7200 RPM 8MB cache 60GB drive, wireless-g, 1600x1200 screen, 128MB ATI 9600). My nearly two year old lappy would still kick the living crap out of that brand-new Powerbook, and could be purchased for a lot less money these days. (i've got a better screen, double the memory, more than double the memory speed, double the video memory, a faster hard disk, equal connectivity... oh darn, it's not "titanium." i guess the powerbook must be better after all.) And unlike you, who WANT it because it's cool and it makes you feel different and superior while actually just joining the herd following the marketing hype, I bought mine because I NEEDED it to perform extremely CPU-intensive professional audio recording in multiple locations. recording that, i might add, would bring any G4 to its knees, despite the program originally being written for the Mac. how do i know? i've used G4 desktops running signigicantly less demanding recording sessions and watched them sputter, choke, freeze, and crawl their way through the sessions... sessions i can run on my laptop while simulataneously playing a DVD, running firefox, and editing in photoshop.

Accually I found a 17" PowerBook for only $2200. It has a 1.67GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD, 1220x900 resolution, and a 128MB 9700. That pretty much makes it on par with your laptop. And I will be replacing my 2 desktops with my PowerBook.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...they REQUIRE a mac? I bet that they just get commision from it.

The excuse they gave was, too many diverse systems used in the past, led to too much time screwing with hardware instead of learning. Many, if not most, of their other colleges require PCs instead.

I don't give a shlt anymore. The cost of that unit pales in comparison to the rest of the money we're laying out!

haha, point taken. Wish I had the money for DAAP. I'm hoping to transfer in at some point... if I stay in thr cincy area.

 

[mattocs]

Stop spending so much time on the computer. The one you have now if fine. Until you can pay for it on your own, then listen to your father.

 

[Imaginer]

Originally posted by: TheGeek

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
I agree with your dad. Macs are a waste of money. You can get a faster, cheaper, and infinitely more USEFUL computer by buying a PC. You can also connect to more networks, share files easier, use new programs sooner, etc, etc, etc. There is absolutely zero reason to buy a Mac these days, for anyone (this includes audio/video/image editing). A snazzy looking interface doesn't justify double the price, half the speed, and a tiny fraction of the compatibility.

Furthermore, as others have mentioned, at under 18 you do not need more than one computer, and you certainly do not need a freaking $2100 laptop. Has it occured to you that a Powerbook, which is already obsolute compared to PC's, is going to be useless in a year, not just because it is slow as molassas, but because Apple is going to switch to Intel-based systems and when they do, it will require a new OS, new programs, etc? And that any programs written after that are unlikely to work on your legacy system? And how will you pay for this inevitable replacement?

And do you have any idea how much college is going to cost? Even if your parent's have you covered, you need that for spending money. Or a car. Or money towards the newer car you will need in 5 years if you're driving a beater right now. Or towards any of a million unforeseen possibilities. 5 years ago I had no idea I would be playing a rock band and lugging around $10K in equipment, with no money left over to fix or replace my aging car. Now I wish that when I was younger I hadn't bought that computer I didn't need, or the $700 digital camera that's now completely obsolete, etc, etc.

Edit: And I might mention that I actually own a $2300 laptop, but when I bought it, it was faster than the fastest DESKTOP Dell sold, and it still rocks the block nearly two years later. (3.2 GHz HT P4, 1GB DC-DDR400, 800 Mhz FSB, 7200 RPM 8MB cache 60GB drive, wireless-g, 1600x1200 screen, 128MB ATI 9600). My nearly two year old lappy would still kick the living crap out of that brand-new Powerbook, and could be purchased for a lot less money these days. (i've got a better screen, double the memory, more than double the memory speed, double the video memory, a faster hard disk, equal connectivity... oh darn, it's not "titanium." i guess the powerbook must be better after all.) And unlike you, who WANT it because it's cool and it makes you feel different and superior while actually just joining the herd following the marketing hype, I bought mine because I NEEDED it to perform extremely CPU-intensive professional audio recording in multiple locations. recording that, i might add, would bring any G4 to its knees, despite the program originally being written for the Mac. how do i know? i've used G4 desktops running signigicantly less demanding recording sessions and watched them sputter, choke, freeze, and crawl their way through the sessions... sessions i can run on my laptop while simulataneously playing a DVD, running firefox, and editing in photoshop.

Accually I found a 17" PowerBook for only $2200. It has a 1.67GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD, 1220x900 resolution, and a 128MB 9700. That pretty much makes it on par with your laptop. And I will be replacing my 2 desktops with my PowerBook.

His price is from 2 years ago. Besides, for college a laptop is really not necessary because most campuses have labs everywhere and for note taking, nothing beats a good pen/pencil and a paper notebook (no worries about crashes, battery life, app loading, etc). Plus there is no worries about theft. I gotten by with my desktop and it is not only til after I graduated did I invest in a notebook (albet I am not willing to spend more than $1500 for one because of OTHER expenses down life)

Like thomsbrain said, save the money for something else down the line. If your current equipment is still performing, dont waste your money on something that is not really needed. The point your dad has is not about the Mac vs Windows debate, it is the fact that you already have a computer that gets the job done and that he thinks its better for you to save the money for other things instead.

 

[feelingshorter]

macs suck...really

 

[suse920]

Originally posted by: TheGeek

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
I agree with your dad. Macs are a waste of money. You can get a faster, cheaper, and infinitely more USEFUL computer by buying a PC. You can also connect to more networks, share files easier, use new programs sooner, etc, etc, etc. There is absolutely zero reason to buy a Mac these days, for anyone (this includes audio/video/image editing). A snazzy looking interface doesn't justify double the price, half the speed, and a tiny fraction of the compatibility.

Furthermore, as others have mentioned, at under 18 you do not need more than one computer, and you certainly do not need a freaking $2100 laptop. Has it occured to you that a Powerbook, which is already obsolute compared to PC's, is going to be useless in a year, not just because it is slow as molassas, but because Apple is going to switch to Intel-based systems and when they do, it will require a new OS, new programs, etc? And that any programs written after that are unlikely to work on your legacy system? And how will you pay for this inevitable replacement?

And do you have any idea how much college is going to cost? Even if your parent's have you covered, you need that for spending money. Or a car. Or money towards the newer car you will need in 5 years if you're driving a beater right now. Or towards any of a million unforeseen possibilities. 5 years ago I had no idea I would be playing a rock band and lugging around $10K in equipment, with no money left over to fix or replace my aging car. Now I wish that when I was younger I hadn't bought that computer I didn't need, or the $700 digital camera that's now completely obsolete, etc, etc.

Edit: And I might mention that I actually own a $2300 laptop, but when I bought it, it was faster than the fastest DESKTOP Dell sold, and it still rocks the block nearly two years later. (3.2 GHz HT P4, 1GB DC-DDR400, 800 Mhz FSB, 7200 RPM 8MB cache 60GB drive, wireless-g, 1600x1200 screen, 128MB ATI 9600). My nearly two year old lappy would still kick the living crap out of that brand-new Powerbook, and could be purchased for a lot less money these days. (i've got a better screen, double the memory, more than double the memory speed, double the video memory, a faster hard disk, equal connectivity... oh darn, it's not "titanium." i guess the powerbook must be better after all.) And unlike you, who WANT it because it's cool and it makes you feel different and superior while actually just joining the herd following the marketing hype, I bought mine because I NEEDED it to perform extremely CPU-intensive professional audio recording in multiple locations. recording that, i might add, would bring any G4 to its knees, despite the program originally being written for the Mac. how do i know? i've used G4 desktops running signigicantly less demanding recording sessions and watched them sputter, choke, freeze, and crawl their way through the sessions... sessions i can run on my laptop while simulataneously playing a DVD, running firefox, and editing in photoshop.

Accually I found a 17" PowerBook for only $2200. It has a 1.67GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD, 1220x900 resolution, and a 128MB 9700. That pretty much makes it on par with your laptop. And I will be replacing my 2 desktops with my PowerBook.

His price is two years old and you can't ignore the fact that your laptop is going to be worthless fairly quickly as apple moves over to pentium systems.

 

[Lorn]

You could wait until OSX runs on the x86 platform.

 

[vegetation]

If you want to impress your dad, find the cheapest celeron-m system you can get. I'll bet he get it for you.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: manly
Ahh okay, you just threw out any credibility you may have had there.

Watch out, he might have to publicly own you. :roll:

Another vocal mac user comes out of the woodwork. Watch where you chuck those rainbows- it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

LOL, I don't particularly like Macs or any Apple products. I certainly don't use any Apple products on a daily basis (although I support a few Macs and god knows how many iPods). I'd probably buy an iPod if they had better color screens and wma support and I didn't have to use iTunes, and Apple's hardware design is pretty cool, but I don't like OSX. But unlike you, I can separate the products and their users (ie, not look like a flaming moron).

No, unlike you, I can see trends when some morons (that's you) can't see the writing on the wall. You're in internet forum trash talker, that's all you are and all you'll ever be. I see that you're within driving distance of me, so if you think you can back it up, speak up kid.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: manly

Originally posted by: Ornery
...the Mini was only $600

Christ, you could have gotten SO MUCH PC for less than that! You are such a typical Mac hype swallower, I'd be embarrassed to death if I were your dad!

Because he can run Mac OS X and iLife '05 on a PC, huh? Of course, you would understand since you condoned your son getting a PowerBook, no?

Another Mac hype sucker.

A computer is a TOOL to be used for a purpose, not to dick around with pretty icons and GUI in general.

My son was REQUIRED to get a GD Mac for school, or there is NO WAY we'd own the damn thing!

Yep, a computer is a tool, and it just so happens that the OS is a fundamental part of how that tool is used, whether it be GUI based or CLI. A GUI choice as far as aesthetics/usability is personal preference (although from personal observation, the majority of people I've heard from/seen/read on forums and such seem to prefer the OSX GUI over Windows for aesthetics, I haven't seen as much/a ton of discussion as far as usability differences is concerned, but here there seems to be a fairly even split). As far as CLI is concerned, you'd have a hard time arguing that the Windows command prompt is as powerful as terminal in OSX.

 

[Sunbird]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: werk

Originally posted by: manly
Ahh okay, you just threw out any credibility you may have had there.

Watch out, he might have to publicly own you. :roll:

Another vocal mac user comes out of the woodwork. Watch where you chuck those rainbows- it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

LOL, I don't particularly like Macs or any Apple products. I certainly don't use any Apple products on a daily basis (although I support a few Macs and god knows how many iPods). I'd probably buy an iPod if they had better color screens and wma support and I didn't have to use iTunes, and Apple's hardware design is pretty cool, but I don't like OSX. But unlike you, I can separate the products and their users (ie, not look like a flaming moron).

No, unlike you, I can see trends when some morons (that's you) can't see the writing on the wall. You're in internet forum trash talker, that's all you are and all you'll ever be. I see that you're within driving distance of me, so if you think you can back it up, speak up kid.

Pot calling kettle black he?

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
I agree with your dad. Macs are a waste of money. You can get a faster, cheaper, and infinitely more USEFUL computer by buying a PC. You can also connect to more networks, share files easier, use new programs sooner, etc, etc, etc. There is absolutely zero reason to buy a Mac these days, for anyone (this includes audio/video/image editing). A snazzy looking interface doesn't justify double the price, half the speed, and a tiny fraction of the compatibility.

Furthermore, as others have mentioned, at under 18 you do not need more than one computer, and you certainly do not need a freaking $2100 laptop. Has it occured to you that a Powerbook, which is already obsolute compared to PC's, is going to be useless in a year, not just because it is slow as molassas, but because Apple is going to switch to Intel-based systems and when they do, it will require a new OS, new programs, etc? And that any programs written after that are unlikely to work on your legacy system? And how will you pay for this inevitable replacement?

And do you have any idea how much college is going to cost? Even if your parent's have you covered, you need that for spending money. Or a car. Or money towards the newer car you will need in 5 years if you're driving a beater right now. Or towards any of a million unforeseen possibilities. 5 years ago I had no idea I would be playing a rock band and lugging around $10K in equipment, with no money left over to fix or replace my aging car. Now I wish that when I was younger I hadn't bought that computer I didn't need, or the $700 digital camera that's now completely obsolete, etc, etc.

Edit: And I might mention that I actually own a $2300 laptop, but when I bought it, it was faster than the fastest DESKTOP Dell sold, and it still rocks the block nearly two years later. (3.2 GHz HT P4, 1GB DC-DDR400, 800 Mhz FSB, 7200 RPM 8MB cache 60GB drive, wireless-g, 1600x1200 screen, 128MB ATI 9600). My nearly two year old lappy would still kick the living crap out of that brand-new Powerbook, and could be purchased for a lot less money these days. (i've got a better screen, double the memory, more than double the memory speed, double the video memory, a faster hard disk, equal connectivity... oh darn, it's not "titanium." i guess the powerbook must be better after all.) And unlike you, who WANT it because it's cool and it makes you feel different and superior while actually just joining the herd following the marketing hype, I bought mine because I NEEDED it to perform extremely CPU-intensive professional audio recording in multiple locations. recording that, i might add, would bring any G4 to its knees, despite the program originally being written for the Mac. how do i know? i've used G4 desktops running signigicantly less demanding recording sessions and watched them sputter, choke, freeze, and crawl their way through the sessions... sessions i can run on my laptop while simulataneously playing a DVD, running firefox, and editing in photoshop.

I'll give you faster (but then again, much of speed is based on how fast you interact with the computer, and much of this has to do with OS interaction which is personal preference) and cheaper, but I sure as hell won't give you useful, as a Mac can be used to do the exact same things as a PC and vice versa. The only differences are in certain specialty applications such as CAD (the Mac lacks the main industry CAD apps). Then again, the Mac has it's own set of specialty apps that Windows lacks suitable equivalents for such as Motion. The Mac is actually a bit better than Windows as far as network connectivity and filesharing goes. Sure, you could put Linux on that PC, but then again you can put Linux on a Mac, evening out the playing field. There's plenty of reason to buy a Mac for people, including audio/video/image editing folks. Premiere is no Final Cut, Pro Tools is a big software package in certain fields from what I understand, Motion has it's uses, and the entire Adobe package is available as well (obviously both on Mac and Windows). As Anand pointed out in one of his reviews, Expose is a hell of a powerful tool to use when working with Photoshop images.