Ecstasy use 'increases mental disorders'

[flavio]

<< These people have done NOTHING for the advancement or progress of civilization or society. >>




So you think the arts do not benefit civilization? Ridiculous.

Many cultures throughout time have recognized the useful properties of certain mind expanding drugs. The problem is that our current culture seems to lump every drug that isn't making pharmacuetical, tobacco, or brewing companies rich into the BAD category. Even though their effects are entirely different WEED=CRACK=LSD=HERION to many uneducated people.

The culture we live in has determined that alcohol is ok and weed is not, even though alcohol makes you wreck your car, punch your friend, ruin you liver and is physically addictive where weed is none of these things but is BAD. Valium is prescribed freely for all the people that need something to put a smile on their face, but that drug is ok because the medical community gets their cut of the money. Some of these other drugs have their uses as well even if they don't come in a prescription or liquor bottle. It's a little more complicated than that.

 

[SpecialEd]

well... its not like all these kid fvcked up on X were volunteering, straight edge, top of the class students before the stumbled upon E. Many of these people have all sorts of life issues and were probably doing all sorts of wonderful drugs before E. I bet many of them would be depressed anyway, with or without the drug.

<-- "E" Free for 5 months and plan to keep it that way...

 

[tcsenter]

<< So you think the arts do not benefit civilization? Ridiculous. >>

Sure they do. The dichotomy is not arts vs. no arts. It is arts not influenced by drugs vs. arts influenced by drugs. The difference between the latter is nominal.

<< Many cultures throughout time have recognized the useful properties of certain mind expanding drugs. >>

Yeah, and what valuable characteristic from those cultures endure today? They made great...pottery.

<< The culture we live in has determined that alcohol is ok and weed is not, even though alcohol makes you wreck your car, punch your friend, ruin you liver and is physically addictive where weed is none of these things but is BAD. >>

I agree, I don't promote the use of alcohol, either. Alcohol causes more harm to our society than all illicit drugs combined.

 

[Marshy]

Hello everyone,

I thought i would join in this nice pleasent convasation, especially because narrow minded people think all drugs are bad, with bad effects,
This is wrong,

New age drugs like ketamine which is well old anyway is commonly used as a anesthetic for children and animals.

L.S.D a very strong mind altering drug, has furthered civ and culture and medicine,
Ever heard of the VCR? do you know how the bloke concieved of that idea?
What about PCR (polymerase chain reaction) (not a song by Diana Ross) this technique has revolutionised the fields of genetics and medicine
Quess what the bloke was on when he thought that idea up!!

Canabis one of the few drugs which ease pain for MS sufferers

Did you also know you can also take Opium every day of life with out having any detremently effect on your body,
sure you get addited but i just demonstrating not all effects are bad

I used to know lots more but I'm getting old now or could be the holes in my head
proberly caused by all the people driving cars using petrol/gas containing Lead

Don't give me all drugs are bad, sure heroin crack, will proberly screw you up prity quickly but not all things are the same!

 

[tcsenter]

<< New age drugs like ketamine which is well old anyway is commonly used as a anesthetic for children and animals. >>

There is a fundamental difference between drugs used for legitimate medical purposes, and those used for recreation. I didn't think that needed to be said.

And it wasn't like the guy who developed the PCR did so BECAUSE he was an avid LSD user. He was a researcher, who used LSD recreationally, and also invented a test. Sort of like that line from the TV show 'Ed': "I'm not a bowling alley lawyer. I'm a lawyer, who also owns a bowling alley."

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Hmmm, I'm one of the 9 in 10 that doesn't think E has made my life worse.
Actually I think it's made it better. It changed my outlook on life and (like eakers said), i don't regret it at all. I stopped a few month ago. Why? I didn't feel like taking any when going to clubs or raves. No other reason really.

I think that those that have phsycological problems probably had them before they even started taking it, and just went to drugs (of any kind) to find an escape.

After you stop taking it takes about 1 month or more for your seratonin levels to come back up to normal. You may still have permanent brain damage (yeah yeah, alcohol kills a lot more brain cells than this and i've done a hell of a lot more drinking), but you've had a good time, and hopefully learned a few things and even be able to change some things about the way you look at life after the experience.

an infectedmushroom

 

[jobberd]

<< If I really really liked Canasta, and if nobody invented Canasta, I would have just found something else to play for entertainment. You can't argue the value of a negative.

I like the Beatles and Jimi Hendrix as much as the next person, but let's not overestimate the worth of such people to the point of absurdity solely for the purpose of legitimizing drug use by making spurrious claims that their 'value' to society due to the influence of drugs, by some very narrow reasoning, somehow outweighs or off-sets the pervasive harm drugs do to society and individuals. Billions are lost to drug-related productivity losses, medical care costs, accidents, crime, etc. every year. The net benefit gained by the elimination of drugs would outstrip the net harm by an order of magnitude.

I'm not foolish enough to believe we could ever eliminate drug use. But, because I accept that drugs can never be eliminated, doesn't mean I'm going to go as far as DEFENDING and PROMOTING their use because I might "get in touch" with my inner self. >>

The legalization of drugs was not the issue at hand that we were discussing. I don't know how that was brought up. If you are referring to the study done to see how much productivity was lost with marijuana smokers, it's bogus. As for medical care costs, accidents, crime, etc., you are bunching up all the drugs together again. Marijuana and hallucinogens != crack, cocaine, heroin, meth, pcp

<< There are FAR better and less risky ways to get in touch with one's inner self, or to become more social, than getting high. If you're a misfit who has social or emotional issues that prevent you from being a sociable or out-going person, the WORSE thing you could do is find your resolution in a DRUG. Anyone ever read Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde? Sheesh! >>

Like before, have you tried it? unless you have, you can't truly know how it affects you. What gives you the impression that only misfits with issues do drugs? That's a stereotype if I've ever heard one. You seem to be under the impression that the drug itself changes you. The drug does nothing to change you or your personality; it simply opens up your eyes to things that might not have been visible before.

 

[Ns1]

<< Dahrr... What are you on drugs NeuroSynapsis? >>




Wtf kinda question is this? Seriously some of you people are very narrow minded.



<< Billions are lost to drug-related productivity losses, medical care costs, accidents, crime, etc. every year. The net benefit gained by the elimination of drugs would outstrip the net harm by an order of magnitude. >>




Don't blame the (*W#$& drug blame the person. In the end the user has full control of everything that he does, not the drug. He should be responsible for any/all actions he takes. He chose to indulge in substances, therefore he should bear the consequences, not society. Seriously, anybody that takes drug use seriously ie most recreational drug users that are intelligent understand this simple fact and take care of themselves. If some dumbass decides to do drugs and then go to work high as a kite, he deserves to get fired, because only an idiot would do drugs at work. If somebody commits a crime while high or to get high, they deserve to be put in jail like everybody else.

Yes drugs do have negative effects, but they also have positive effects, and unless you experienced something, you have no right to say that it has no positive effects. That's like saying if I live in China and never even stepped foot in the US, and only believe what the government spoon fed me, I'd say that the US was a horrible country overflowing with murderers and rapists. You are making comments on a subject in which you know nothing about.

I'll fully agree, anybody that's stupid enough to OD or do something else stupid while intoxicated deserves everything that's coming to them. but their actions should not be representative of the group. Once again, that's like saying all males should be punished because of a few rapists. People do do drugs responsibly, and it's a shame that you only hear about people that don't.



<< There are FAR better and less risky ways to get in touch with one's inner self, or to become more social, than getting high. If you're a misfit who has social or emotional issues that prevent you from being a sociable or out-going person, the WORSE thing you could do is find your resolution in a DRUG. Anyone ever read Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde? Sheesh! >>



Hey, you can take whatever route to inner peace or whatever that you'd like, this is the way I choose and I'll be damned if you're gonna stop me. If i'm a misfit that has social or emotional issues that prevent me from being a sociable or out-going person, the WORSE thing that can happen to me is NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. If doing drugs makes me more sociable or out-going on the LONG RUN, then I will do drugs.

The simple fact here is that people aren't educated. Most drug users are not educated and do not know what they are doing to themselves, and it's a shame. Intelligent people educate themselves first, see if the benefits outweigh the consequences, and then make a judgement.

 

[Harvey]

<< Like before, have you tried it? unless you have, you can't truly know how it affects you. >>

Regardless of your opinion, your logic sucks. I haven't tried cyanide, but I think I know how it would affect me. :Q

 

[Ns1]

No you wouldn't, you don't know what goes through your mind before you die right? Okay then

We're not talking about physical effects here, we're talking mental

 

[Thegonagle]

If there's one thing I don't need, it's burnt out seratonin receptors.

Damn it, I like to be happy. I?m not myself if I?m not calm and happy-go-lucky.

 

[BooneRebel]

OK, I'll bite:



<<
Don't blame the (*W#$& drug blame the person. In the end the user has full control of everything that he does, not the drug. He should be responsible for any/all actions he takes. He chose to indulge in substances, therefore he should bear the consequences, not society. Seriously, anybody that takes drug use seriously ie most recreational drug users that are intelligent understand this simple fact and take care of themselves. If some dumbass decides to do drugs and then go to work high as a kite, he deserves to get fired, because only an idiot would do drugs at work. If somebody commits a crime while high or to get high, they deserve to be put in jail like everybody else. >>



Uhmm, ever hear of an addiction? If the user had full control, we wouldn't have people dying of overdoses or breaking laws trying to get to that 'next' high. And society does have to pick up the tab, whether it's from lost productivity, medical bills, or taking care of family members after someone OD's.



<< People do do drugs responsibly, and it's a shame that you only hear about people that don't. >>



If you're breaking the law, then you're not responsible, IMHO. If you don't agree with the law, either see that it's changed or relocate yourself so that you're not affected by the law. This "I can handle it, I'm above the law" mentality fills up emergency rooms every day.



<< Intelligent people educate themselves first, see if the benefits outweigh the consequences, and then make a judgement. >>



OK, judgement time. The news flash topic of this thread: use of mind-altering drugs may alter the mind. Wow, didn't ever expect to see that in print. Sure, you're responsible and you're going to make sure that you're always in control (Riiiiiight...). For every one exception to the statistics, there are going to be 99 others that burn-out, drop-out, fall into the court system, fall out with their families, etc. Is it really worth the risk of abusing -any- drug to be 'socially acceptable'? Why risk it? Don't you have enough self-esteem to make it on your own?

 

[jobberd]

<< Uhmm, ever hear of an addiction? If the user had full control, we wouldn't have people dying of overdoses or breaking laws trying to get to that 'next' high. And society does have to pick up the tab, whether it's from lost productivity, medical bills, or taking care of family members after someone OD's. >>

Again, we are not talking about the same drugs. Stop grouping every single drug into the same category. Marijuana, hallucinogens, and ecstacy are all not physically addictive. The people that get addicted to those drugs are the same that get addicted to chocolate, or gambling, or pretty much anything else. Are you going to want to illegalize those as well?

<< If you're breaking the law, then you're not responsible, IMHO. If you don't agree with the law, either see that it's changed or relocate yourself so that you're not affected by the law. This "I can handle it, I'm above the law" mentality fills up emergency rooms every day. >>

Wrong, the "I can handle it, I'm above the law" mentality fills up jails every day, and needlessly at that.

<< OK, judgement time. The news flash topic of this thread: use of mind-altering drugs may alter the mind. Wow, didn't ever expect to see that in print. Sure, you're responsible and you're going to make sure that you're always in control (Riiiiiight...). For every one exception to the statistics, there are going to be 99 others that burn-out, drop-out, fall into the court system, fall out with their families, etc. Is it really worth the risk of abusing -any- drug to be 'socially acceptable'? Why risk it? Don't you have enough self-esteem to make it on your own? >>

Again, not all people do drugs for social reasons, and not everyone abuses drugs

 

[Electric Amish]

<< You sure it isn't all that bad techno music causing the problems? >>



I'd buy that for a dollar!!

amish

 

[Ns1]

<< Uhmm, ever hear of an addiction? If the user had full control, we wouldn't have people dying of overdoses or breaking laws trying to get to that 'next' high. And society does have to pick up the tab, whether it's from lost productivity, medical bills, or taking care of family members after someone OD's. >>



Yeah I have heard of addiction, and those people obviously weren't fit to deal with hit now eh? I don't agree with society having to pickup the tab, but I'm not in a position to change that.



<< If you're breaking the law, then you're not responsible, IMHO >>



Who makes the laws? It has nothing to do with responsibility. If people were "responsible" then we wouldn't have cable theft, mp3 whoring, divx whoring, etc etc etc



<< For every one exception to the statistics, there are going to be 99 others that burn-out, drop-out, fall into the court system, fall out with their families, etc. Is it really worth the risk of abusing -any- drug to be 'socially acceptable'? Why risk it? Don't you have enough self-esteem to make it on your own? >>



Yeah I'm aware of that statistic, and it saddens me, it really really does. But here, what to know what I blame it on? The government. They don't really educate people. They just put forth a "drugs are bad, don't use them" mentality, never really informing people of the effects and whatnot. Let's put this instance alone, for a very long time, after MDMA was banned for all practical uses, it was listed as a schedule 1 substance, meaning it has no known medical value. That also means that it is not exempt for any testing re: it's effects. So people did this substance and they never had a chance to fully understand the damage that they are doing to themselves. Only now is the government ever so slightly relaxing their grip and allowing medical tests. MDMA has the disadvantage that it is such a new drug. Other drugs such as heroin, cocaine, LSD, marijuana have been around for way longer than MDMA has so there would obviously be alot more information out there about it.

One more thing, which will tell you how messed up the system is right now. I was talking to my friend, and he said

"It's pretty sad when it's easier to get drugs than it is to get alcohol"

Think about it

 

[TheBullGod]

E....I have many fond memories of being under its influence, But its not a drug thats worth getting involved with. I've done it every night for over a week straight, I've done up to 5 pills in a night, snorted broken up pills, I have done alot of E. Its extremely damaging to the body. Anybody who has taken it knows the next day side affects. My short term memory is shot, I use to have bad shakes... they're not gone but aren't really noticable anymore. I tell my friends and people I meet.... Drinking is cool, Smoking weed is cool, but I give them a warning about E, You may feel incredible, and will be having the best time of your life but you will learn about its downside the hard way. I've had a few people come back at some time or another and tell me that I was right about it, and should have never bothered.

Trust me, there are better things out there to spend your time and money on.

 

[flavio]

Over and over agian you fscks think CRACK=LSD=WEED=COCAINE=MDMA=HEROIN=OPIUM=etc.


They are all completely different as are Valium, Aspirin, Alcohol, caffeine, Codiene, and Paxil. Get it?

 

[Ns1]

<< I've done it every night for over a week straight, I've done up to 5 pills in a night, snorted broken up pills, I have done alot of E. >>




Good job

Yeah, that's a little outta control don't you think? I do it maybe once every 2 months.

 

[TheBullGod]

<<

<< I've done it every night for over a week straight, I've done up to 5 pills in a night, snorted broken up pills, I have done alot of E. >>




Good job

Yeah, that's a little outta control don't you think? I do it maybe once every 2 months. >>



Yeah I was kinda outta control. Every 2 months isn't that bad, but doens't mean it won't catch up to you.
If ya gonna do it, just have fun and be safe Don't do anything stupid on it like I use to.

 

[Ns1]

Hahah I'm not saying I'm innocent, every body messes up when they first start, it just takes some people longer to realize than others

 

[shurato]

lets face it, drugs are bad...its illegal...but some of the problem stems from the fact that there are alot of people out there including in this forum who just take a hardline narrowminded approach on it...to put it short some of you are saying, its illegal, you have the propensity to commit crimes for it, the government and society will pick up the tab for your therapy later on in life. Well screw that...first of all, ecstasy is not a brand new drug and it was in fact I believe developed by the millitary to work as a truth serum during the 40's or 50's (i could be wrong). Also, no one really knows the effects of it especially longterm...its only really recently being tested. This is the same govt that knowingly allows alcohol which is the number 1 substance that kills (in more ways than one) and tobacco which is proven to kill kill kill directly to be on the market.....GEE I WONDER WHY....and this is the same gov't that puts ecstasy in the same class as hard drugs as cocaine. I hear there is a new law in California that will put someone caught under the influence of ecstasy in jail for a minimum of 90 days. These hardline approaches and alot of your uptight natures are not the way to curb drug use...drugs are a losing battle, why not just face it and try to deal with it and perhaps people will be better educated and it will have a more positive effect for people and society than the feeble attempts to eliminate it from the face of the earth. its not gonna happen...open your eyes, open your minds, open your hearts, educate yourself, educate others whether its 2nd hand information you learned or like myself first hand information...but also don't be so judgemental and heavyhanded in your approach. this is straight up cheese but theres a saying in the rave community, its called PLUR....P.eace L.ove. U.nity and R.espect...that just about sums my post up. oh yeah i usually add another R. for responsibility.

 

[phatcow]

plur..... mmmmmmm...

 

[OS]

<< Heavy use of Extacy, according to my Psych prof, effectively burns out the seratonin receptors in the brain. An inability to respond to seratonin is the chief physiological symptom of clinical depression, which means that heavy use of Extacy will eventually cause depression. It is also worth noting that since medications for depression work by slightly increasing the amount of seratonin in the brain, depression caused by Extacy is not treatable since the receptors for seratonin are "burnt out" and therefore do not respond to current anti-depressive drugs. >>



Can someone link to such a study? Is this damage permanent? What exactly constitutes "heavy use?" I'd like to be able to see this study for myself.

 

[tcsenter]

<< Don't blame the (*W#$& drug blame the person. >>

lol! You remind me of those deniers who believe they drive better after they've had a few drinks. I'm going to take my own advice: don't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

<< Yes drugs do have negative effects, but they also have positive effects, and unless you experienced something, you have no right to say that it has no positive effects. >>

I've experimented with virtually every drug out there, but it doesn't take a drug-user to see that tens of thousands of people who 'thought' they could 'handle' their drugs responsibly end-up with a host of consequences they never bargained for.

<< People do do drugs responsibly, and it's a shame that you only hear about people that don't. >>

lol! You're trying to bulllsh-t the wrong person. When you get to be my age, there are ONLY two types of 'drug' users: those who had enough sense to quit while they were ahead, and those who didn't have enough sense to quit while they were ahead. That's it.

Of all the friends and acquaintences I came to know during my 'experimental' years, representing all parts of the socioeconomic spectrum, from the sons of laborers to the sons of wealthy physicians or business owners, from high school drop-outs to those whose IQ and academic scores put them in the top 5% percent nationally, NONE continue to be "responsible" users.

They all fit within the two categories mentioned above: they either quit while they were ahead, or they didn't and suffered the consequences, the latter meaning one or more of the following: addiction, trips to the hospital from overdose, death, losing scholarships, losing multiple jobs, being kicked out of college, incarceration due to a range of offenses from drunk driving accidents to possession or intent to distribute, breaking and entering, larceny, fraud, aggravated assault, negligent homicide, all directly related to this fantasy that there were "responsible" drug users out there, and they fancied themselves as being among them.

<< Hey, you can take whatever route to inner peace or whatever that you'd like, this is the way I choose and I'll be damned if you're gonna stop me. >>

lol! Calm down, you're beginning to sound like the bitter and maladjusted step-child: "You can't make me!"

<< If i'm a misfit that has social or emotional issues that prevent me from being a sociable or out-going person, the WORSE thing that can happen to me is NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. If doing drugs makes me more sociable or out-going on the LONG RUN, then I will do drugs. >>

So, you're essentially admitting that you can't cut reality without being high, that your personality, and possibly your life, is a drug-enhanced fraud and a sham? Don't brag about it. Good luck to you, you're gonna need it.

 

[Ns1]

<< So, you're essentially admitting that you can't cut reality without being high, that your personality, and possibly your life, is a drug-enhanced fraud and a sham? Don't brag about it. Good luck to you, you're gonna need it. >>



Haha alright, how many times have I told you I'm not a hardcore drug user? "Can't cut reality without being high" it's not like I'm bloody walking around high as a kite here. It's something I do every once in a while for fun.


Now, this is gonna end up being a shouting match so I'm just gonna stop here m'kay?


End